Has anyone shot a Ruger 77 in .458 Win Mag recently?

[W54/XM-388]

I was over at my local gun store looking at the price on ordering a 45-70 rifle and they had this beautiful looking Ruger model 77 rifle in .458 Win Mag.
It was in very nice condition & the action & trigger on it were very smooth.
The price was pretty decent as well.

I wanted to check if anyone had shot them recently and especially how it shoots compared to the 45-70

Also, has anyone had any experience is downloading the 500+ grain bullets for it to around 1000fps?

Thanks!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No, but I have a 03 Springfield in .458.

I handload two loads. One is a full-bore .458 with Barnes Solids. The other is basically a 'hot .45/70 load.

With the .45/70 the rifle is a pussy cat.

With the full bore load... well, you want to make sure you have it snugged and a good cheek weld.

But if you can handload, you can make that rifle into a great shooter. They tend to go pretty cheap because lots of people 'want' them, but when it comes to feeding them, $100 a box for factory shells and dislocated shoulders are not fun. So they get resold quick.

But I'd snap that up if the price is right and not look back. They are great rifles.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[W54/XM-388]

Thanks for your reply,

They were wanting about $600 for it, I was thinking it would be an interesting option if I could hand load more controllable rounds for hogs etc. Also it's a bit of an impressive display piece rifle.
Seems the standard load is 500+ grain at around 2000+ fps, I was thinking about half that velocity.

On hand loads that you are doing for yours that are like a hot .45/70, what velocity are you getting out of it?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Velocity... No idea, actually. I used a load out of my 1960's Speer reloading manual, using the top load for a .45/70 (in a 'modern' gun, not a Trapdoor load.) I can look it up tomorrow and I have my loading notes in the boxes of cartridges I loaded for it. I still have about 80 of the 100 that I loaded up for it. And about 90 of the 100 Barnes solids.

I will say that at 100 yards, the light load dropped a record VT moose in 2006. Bullet went right through the boilerworks and I cut it out from under the hide on the far side. Moose dropped on the spot. Perfect velocity and shot. Moose weighed in at 960 dressed. I still have the bullet, a SJRN. Lost, I think, 21 grains. Expanded perfectly!

My guess, somewhere around 1200? If you want to know, I'll find the box with my notes in it.

$600 is a great price. And if that's asking... you can probably get for a bit less. You will really enjoy shooting it with downloaded rounds.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[W54/XM-388]

Around the 1200fps or so range should be pretty nice.
If you happen to come across your notes on it, I'd appreciate the information.

It looks to hold 3+1 rounds

It weighs in at just over 9 pounds, so I figure with a good soft recoil pad on the end and lighter loads it should be controllable.

 

[sandwarrior]

I shot a .458 a few times. 300 gr bullet moving at 2600-2700? or so. The recoil makes you check in yesterday...but you come back to today pretty quickly. Shooting it off a bench was what really hammered me. Once zeroed, shooting standing was more tolerable. A whole lotta gun as sirhr said. Not my cup of tea, really. I shoot a 9.3x62 as my wannabe Safari gun.

The price you mentioned is actually outstanding for that rifle in that cartridge. Worth it as an investment I would think. Was it Gen I or II?

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm not sure if it's a Gen I or II, I'll need to do some research on it.

 

[1J04]

Good lord that alotta gun. I know sirhrmechanic isn't a petite man and I'm 6'2"-3"ish 240 and the Ruger No.1 and Winchester with full load 500 grainers rocked my world. No arguing who's Elk just dropped that's for damn sure. That M77 for $600 is a damn good deal though. Offer 5 and settle for $550? Ya, I'd do that and then load it down to a tolerable level. 62 lbs of felt recoil or so just isn't fun. Never was.

 

[1J04]

[No message]

 

[W54/XM-388]

Until I get a set of dies in to try loading some slower moving 500gr and possibly 600gr projectiles, I might try some of the custom loads from Nyati
They have a 500gr at 1100fps and then a 350gr at 2000fps

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Nope. but I once wasted (yeah, looking back it was soooo stupid...) 20 12ga deer sabots trying to sight in a fluky scope on an 870 rifled slug barrel I was sending to my Brother. Less mayhem involved (by degree...), it was still illustrative about the psychology of seeking recoil.

In as sentence, there has just GOTS TO BE a better way to take down a pig.

Elephant guns are for Elephants, and are probably a good idea for a Kodiak, too.

Savage makes a nice Bear Hunter, and Hog Hunter, and the .458 Mag isn't listed for either application.

What were you thinking...?

Fwhooosh!

Greg

 

[NukeMMC]

I had a Ruger M77 Safari .458WM (71-12275) that sold at auction for way less than it should have (like <$500). Had 20 factory 500gr loads to expend before sale. Recoil wasn't pleasant but not entirely brutal. The .55 Boys was worse by far.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The Boys is brutal no matter what. But not shoulder fired. Boys is basically a BMG in a rifle too light for a BMG.

The .458 is a pussycat compared to the Boys. Even with weight difference (the 77 is light).

The ..458 sells a lot of rifles to poseurs and people who want to be Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry 1 or Hathaway Capstick in Death in the Long Grass. It has a purpose. No doubt. For putting down m'bogo at a time when the safari was still in vogue. Today, it's an alpha-male-wannabe-dare. Unless you need one and then it's no problem.

In Africa, the guide would make sure we could hit a cigarette pack (that was a EU 4" x 4" cigarette pack... from the shoulder at 50 yds. Or we could not go out, And that's with hunting loads. All three of my rounds went through the John Player box. I got to play. Not everyone got to go out... despite paying a lot for their safari. In my case, guest of the embassy.... so to speak. But guide didn't give a crap. If I could not perforate his cigarette box, I was staying home. I didn't pay squat. The 'other guy' who could not shoot his rifle.... stayed at camp. He was a douche anyway. Forfeited a large amount of coin to come and fail... to even get off the range at camp.

Boowah hahahaha ha ah ah aha ha aha ha ha

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm not sure if it's a Gen I or II, I'll need to do some research on it.

The quick check is the safety. Gen I (plain Ruger 77, actually) has a tang safety. A forward/ rearward slide. The Genn II has a three position that looks like a Winchester 70 safety. Except it's on the receiver not the bolt like a Win 70.

Added:
The worst rifle for recoil I ever shot was a Weatherby's .460...unbraked. Everything I've shot that was bigger than that was braked or ported.

Interesting considerations about what we "need". Sometimes it's law but do we really need the 'Beast'? Eskimos took one of the largest polar bear ever...with a .222. A Native in Canada took at that time a record brown/grizzly with a .22. W. D. "Karamojo" Bell took thousands of elephants with 7mm Mauser and 6.5x54 M&S. He also took other dangerous game for camp meat with them.

He​​​​​ shot a .416 Rigby for a short while. He hung that up as: A. It was expensive to shoot. B. Recoil was harsh. C. It was way more gun on the killing end than he needed.

I suppose one gets used to tough recoil. I've found that when I tough out shooting my .308 Norma, I can go about 25-30 rounds before I feel myself involuntarily tense up. But I can go 50 and still do more with my 7mm-08. My .223 does not make me quit. I have to make myself quit.

 

[Quarter Horse]

Boomers, spelled F-U-N, are fun. It is akin to explosions being fun and bigger explosions being more fun. I've had a .450 Ackley Magnum and still have four .45-70s. The Ackley never got used but the .45-70s got lots of attention. I shot Speer 400grn. flat nose and Lazer-Cast 405grn flat nose. I'm sure either would work in a .458 WM. I shot both bullets at around 1300 and mostly at about 1750. 1750 with the cast bullet would cause leading. Lazer-Cast now has a silver alloyed bullet that will take more speed. When I first started using their bullets I called them for some recommendations and they were happy to assist. The Speers came from a guy I knew who has reportedly killed more black bears than anyone. He was a houndsman and hunted vast private forest lands for bears determined to be damaging trees. When a bear was on the ground with his dogs he needed to end things quickly. If the bear was treed he wanted it dead when it hit the ground or got hung in the tree. His choice was the ,45-70.

The .45-70 will kill anything in NA at 1350fps. At 1750 you simply have more range. These bullets simply do not fly well but that is not their purpose. The .458 is simply more of the same but would be more than adequate at the aforementioned speeds and should be more pleasant to shoot. At the dollars you mentioned the Ruger is an excellent buy. You can't go wrong. If you lose interest $500.00 would be a fire sale price.

The Brits developed a method of shooting the DGRs that is much easier on the body than sitting behind one at a bench. Think in terms of a music stand. With the stand extended up, the forearm is laid across where the sheet music would be. Reasonably good support and it allows you to shoot from a standing position in which case the recoil becomes manageable. Clearly the rest needs to be more substantial than a music stand but you get the idea.

Let us know what happens.

 

[W54/XM-388]

It looks to be a 1978 Mark 1 in the 73-71 serial number range.

It will probably be a couple weeks before I can go shoot it, but I plan to follow the advice from sirhrmechanic and go with basically hot 45-70 loads and work up a bit down & up around there.

 

[sandwarrior]

Quarterhorse said it right, it's Mk I or Mk II. Not really MkI as they only called the Mk II a "mark". Not Gen either, as I said previously. Brainfart, dongivashit, givadam....all busted.

Save​

 

[kraigWY]

Yeah I have one. Mine shoots great and surprisingly the recoil isn't bad for a 458 Win. But I will confess I'm a wimp so most of my shooting of that rifle is with cast bullets loaded to my trapdoor 45-70 velocities.

Its not bad using the cast bullets, but my Browning copy of the M-1895 Winchester (45-70) is more accurate by a ways.

What I like to do is load up a bunch of cast bullets and do close range standing rapid fire with the Ruger. Good practice incase I get charged by the D-Rex dude.

------------------------------------------------------------
Not a Ruger, but some what related. Years ago I was the CO of an Alaskan Native NG unit on St Lawrence Island. One of my sergeants (who I used as a field first sgt) tried to give me a Model 70 Safari in 458 Win. Beautiful rifle but I couldn't take it. It was given to him by some clients he guided on Walrus hunt. He said he couldn't use it because 458 ammo was too hard to get in Gambell, not to mention it was too expensive. A box of ammo took nearly half of his monthly guard check.

On the south side of the island was a lead core cable, miles long left over from the trans arctic telegraph days, I told him to go get a chunk of that lead and I would fix him up on my next trip to the island.

So I gathered up a mold, some brass, primers, powder and dies. I showed him how to make lube out of whale or seal fat, cast bullets, which could be shot almost as fast as jacketed rounds but a whole heck of a lot cheaper.

He was one happy camper. Later his boat brought in whale, which the 458 and cast bullets played a big part.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

There was a gentleman on LRH a while ago that was wildcatting the .500 Jeffery into .338 and .375 along with other calibers. Looked to be very interesting! In between a the .416 Rigby based bolt face and Cheytac/Gibbs bolt face.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Not a Ruger, but some what related. Years ago I was the CO of an Alaskan Native NG unit on St Lawrence Island. One of my sergeants (who I used as a field first sgt) tried to give me a Model 70 Safari in 458 Win. Beautiful rifle but I couldn't take it. It was given to him by some clients he guided on Walrus hunt. He said he couldn't use it because 458 ammo was too hard to get in Gambell, not to mention it was too expensive. A box of ammo took nearly half of his monthly guard check.

On the south side of the island was a lead core cable, miles long left over from the trans arctic telegraph days, I told him to go get a chunk of that lead and I would fix him up on my next trip to the island.

So I gathered up a mold, some brass, primers, powder and dies. I showed him how to make lube out of whale or seal fat, cast bullets, which could be shot almost as fast as jacketed rounds but a whole heck of a lot cheaper.

He was one happy camper. Later his boat brought in whale, which the 458 and cast bullets played a big part.

That's one of the things I like about some of the older guns, if needed, you can just make your own bullets & use less refined propellants.

I have an older Italian reproduction 45/70 trapdoor rifle that is rated for either smokless or blackpowder charges and in the instruction manual, they apparently also made a version that was a 3 way and in addition to smokeless / blackpowder cartridges could also take lead bullets wrapped in paper with black powder and a firing cap externally mounted that the hammer hit.
The rifle is amazingly long and heavy, the double set trigger is pretty nice as it's rather safe till you pull the first trigger then on the second trigger you pretty much just have to think about shooting for it to go off. It's rather soft shooting with the 405gr mild loads

I have a couple Italian reproduction Schofield Revolvers in 45 that can also shoot much more primitive hand made ammo and go nicely with the 45/70 (they are expensive as anything to buy however).

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Checked my loading data. My light load for .458 Magnum

400 gr speer soft point (round nose)

70 gr. 3031 powder

Large rifle (non-magnum) primer.

Great shooting. Accurate. And doesn't have a bad recoil at all. Would be good for anything on North American Continent without a doubt.

The only thing a more-powerful load would be for is a 500 grain solid for m'Bogo. And I have that load, too. Barnes solids.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

There was a gentleman on LRH a while ago that was wildcatting the .500 Jeffery into .338 and .375 along with other calibers. Looked to be very interesting! In between a the .416 Rigby based bolt face and Cheytac/Gibbs bolt face.

II have a .416 Taylor, which is basically a .458 Mag necked down to .416 Rigby bullet. It packs a heck of a whallop! I will be taking that on my Bison hunt in December. Along with the .458 as a backup.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

II have a .416 Taylor, which is basically a .458 Mag necked down to .416 Rigby bullet. It packs a heck of a whallop! I will be taking that on my Bison hunt in December. Along with the .458 as a backup.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Very cool. Planning to run solids in it or what? How do bison compare to Cape Buffalo as far as "toughness to kill" would ya say? Also, I thought you had a Sharps in the collection sir? Certainly youre bringing that along as well..??

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Using soft points. I think a solid would punch through too easily. Not bringing the Sharps. Too Quigley for my taste...

As for bison's toughness... ask me in December. I'll give a good description!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

Happy 4th of July all!

I have not shot a buffalo but all I can surmise is how many were killed with the likes of .45, .50, 54, and 56 caliber blackpowder guns. Then again, many elk were killed, some species to extinction, with them, and I know they are tough.

 

[thebolt]

I have that same rifle and shot it a fair amount 30 years ago. My son owns that Ruger rifle now and he is better able to handle the recoil. The factory 458 rounds kick substantially more than a hot load in a 45-70. Lighter bullets in the 350-400 range have much lighter recoil than the standard bullet weights, even when loaded pretty hot in the 458. The 400 grain was a great elk round but you have to know your trajectory pretty well if you shoot any real distance.

I hope you receive as much enjoyment with of yours as I did from mine. They are a lot of fun.

 

[Bulldog Firearms]

As far as replicating your factory loads, a fair number of years ago, manufacturers were advertising 2100fps ish with a 500gr bullet. The catch was that I believe this was out of a 26" barrel. In reality a lot of the rifles had 20-22 inch barrels and my understanding is that the velocity out of those barrels was in the 1900fps realm. If you are serious about the cartridge, take the time to chronograph your rifle. This was one of the reasons the 458 Lott came out. You can still fire 458 win if you have to, but also gives you a higher performance option.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

^^^ Interesting info! Thanks for that.

From what I have gathered (and personally experienced!) the issue is not getting more performance... it's getting the .458 to shoot comfortably with a lighter load, with the option of shooting the 'full bore' stuff if an opportunity should arise to go shoot... large things. On other continents!

The .458 is a bit like the .44 Magnum. Everyone wants one because it is the biggest and baddest and, probably, was in a Dirty Harry movie. But having one is like having a supermodel for a girlfriend... seems like a good concept, but they are expensive, temperamental, painful and not easy to live with. If you can de-tune them a bit with handloading, they are fantastic rifles. I assume you de-tune the supermodel by having her gain 20 pounds and aging 10 years. But that's no fun with a rifle.

Anyway, very interesting information about the barrel length and that makes a lot of sense. Africa rifles tend to be 'handy' not benchresters. Thanks for posting!

Cheers,

Sirhr