Having trouble deciding on a budget .223 target rifle build

T

TommyTwoTone

Private
Minuteman
Dec 12, 2017
28
0
inland Empire, CA
#1
Hi Folks,

I am shopping for my first long gun and I'm dizzy with all the build permutations. I could use some experienced guidance.

I'm looking to build a .223 caliber target rifle. I don't plan on competing or hunting with it. I'm just looking to put tight groups of holes in paper from a bench. My goal is sub MOA accuracy from 100 yards since that's the max distance available at my local range. Occasionally I'll have access to a 200 yard range. I'm aware of the limitations of the caliber beyond that range and frankly it's unlikely I'd ever have the opportunity to shoot 400 yards or more.

Aside from my caliber selection here's what's on my gotta have list -
  • Budget WITH A SCOPE $1,500 to $1,600. I'm starting with nothing and I've done enough research to understand the importance of good glass. I hope $600 to $700 is a realistic budget for a scope, otherwise I'm not sure it's possible to stay within budget.
  • 20 to 24" heavy barrel with 1:8 or 1:9 twist. I prefer 24" but I know my desire for a fast barrel kills Remington as an option outside of a 5-R, which I think is beyond my budget.
  • DBM
  • Built-in adjustable cheekpiece
  • No factory rifles unless it's to salvage parts. I know I can get sub MOA with plenty of off-the-shelf rifles but there isn't one in my price range with a stock I like.
Wishlist items -
  • I'd prefer to avoid contracting a gunsmith for any activities entirely but I realize it may be unavoidable with a DMB.
  • If I go with a 700 I'd love to have enough budget leftover to upgrade to a Timney or Jewell trigger.
  • I'm open to a laminate, synthetic, wood stock or aluminum chassis. Chassis would be my first choice but I think I can stretch my dollar farther with one of the other options.
If you've done a recent training rifle build with a similar budget I'd love to hear about it. Just for point of reference, I can get a new Rem 700 SPS Tactical 20" for $620 and a Howa 24" Barreled Action for about $520.

Thanks in advance for the replies.
 
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#3
Welcome Tommy you have come to the right place, I am pretty new myself but I have just finished building my own 223 trainer on a very similar budget. I built it as my first precision gun because I like you am currently limited in range, although I have out to 300. Again this is just what I did and I am very pleased but it is by no means the only way. I started with a Rem 700 sps tact because of the twist. Now you will certainly come to find that it seems Remington has somewhat fallen out of favor on this site as the go to suggestion. That being said my rifle was a hammer out of the box, in the crappy stock. I found factory match ammo of the 69gr variety was always comfortably under 1 MOA. Some groups approached .5MOA some were closer to 1 MOA. I probably shot about 100 or so factory rounds and I would put the average 3 shot group somewhere around 3/4 MOA. Once I started hand loading, which I am also new at that dropped to under .5 MOA. The day I load tested I took about 30 rounds so ten different charge weights and shot groups of three. The largest was just over .5 MOA the smallest was around .2 MOA. Now those are three shot groups and certainly not every group comes out like that. But my point is if you goal is sub MOA I at least was able to achieve that without hand loads in my rifle. I think many may recommend the Howa action over the Remington but I have no experience there. From what I have seen they are also shooters and I don't think you would be disappointing.

Here is the rest of my list and what I paid:

Rifle- Rem 700 sps Tac-$600 or $620
Scope- Athlon Argos 6-24 FFP Mil/Mil-$390
Rings- Vortex nothing fancy- $40-$50
Scope Rail - EGW 20 MOA-$40- the 20 MOA is the important part here
Stock- Greyboe Renagade m5 Inlet- $320 you could also go with the KRG bravo for about the same price and I believe that has the cheek piece
Bottom Metel- PTG- 130
Bipod- $30 Cheap knock off
Trigger- $0 Still stock
Total- $1580

That won't get you the trigger under budget but If you saved for a few months you could always upgrade down the line, I have found the stock trigger usable. There are also other optics in that price range but I took a chance on a newer company and I certainly have no complaints its not a $1000 optic by any stretch but I think for my use which is similar to yours it work well. My last comment would be to start stalking the exchange because some real deals come up every now and then.

Good luck with the build. Feel free to message me with or post here if there is anything else I can offer to help.
 
#4
stephewc said:
I would get a Tikka T3x Varmint in 223 Rem. Comes with a 24" barrel, 1:8 twist barrel and detachable magazine out of the box. You can find them for $850 shipped or less. Use the rest of the money on glass.
Click to expand...

The above is what you are looking for, mine is a hammer even cut down to 17.5". Skip the remington..
 
#5
My trainer rifle, a near exact duplicate of my 308

Howa 1500 .223 Rem 1/9 barrelled action with 2 stage Howa trigger, $250 from Pacific Tool & Gauge
KRG 180-xray chassis with optional toolless buttplate adjuster $623 direct from KRG
Chinese-made Harris knockoff from Amazon
SWFA 16X42 on SWFA rings, $250 on black Friday sale (included rings and a bubble level)
Talley one-piece Pic rail $60 (IIRC)
A pair of MDT 10 rounders, $80

The only differences between my 308 and it
SWFA 3-15X42
Atlas BT10 V8
Timney single stage
Magpul and Alpha mags
 
#6
I looked at ptg earlier and they only have the thin barreled howas left. The normal prices at brownells still aren’t too bad and you can always get 30 bucks off with their coupons. And Christmas sales are coming up
 
#8
stephewc said:
I would get a Tikka T3x Varmint in 223 Rem. Comes with a 24" barrel, 1:8 twist barrel and detachable magazine out of the box. You can find them for $850 shipped or less. Use the rest of the money on glass.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. The Tikka t3x Varmint is the first rifle I looked at...one of the few I've seen in person. I know the barrel and trigger are both good but I hate the stock. I'd be tempted to upgrade it immediately, which would be an unwanted cost.

The other higher priced factory option I looked at was the Remington 700 5-R. Decent 24" barrel but I'd be paying for the HS Precision stock, which I dislike as well. On the bright side the Remington stock would have resale value. I'm not so sure about the Tikka.

If I could get a Tikka T3X barreled action by itself I'd be all over it.

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#9
308pirate said:
My trainer rifle, a near exact duplicate of my 308

Howa 1500 .223 Rem 1/9 barrelled action with 2 stage Howa trigger, $250 from Pacific Tool & Gauge
KRG 180-xray chassis with optional toolless buttplate adjuster $623 direct from KRG
Chinese-made Harris knockoff from Amazon
SWFA 16X42 on SWFA rings, $250 on black Friday sale (included rings and a bubble level)
Talley one-piece Pic rail $60 (IIRC)
A pair of MDT 10 rounders, $80

The only differences between my 308 and it
SWFA 3-15X42
Atlas BT10 V8
Timney single stage
Magpul and Alpha mags
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if my rifle penciled out close to that. It's too bad Pacific T&G doesn't have any heavy barrel Howa's anymore. That would have been an easy go at that price.

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#10
600-700 dollars for a scope is well within your grasp if you are willing to make some compromises.
The SWFA 3-15 JUST squeaks in at 699. The fixed power is available for 300, I would recommend the 12X. That will leave you room for a good set of rings and allow you to spend a bit more money on the rifle.
 
#11
fdkay said:
600-700 dollars for a scope is well within your grasp if you are willing to make some compromises.
The SWFA 3-15 JUST squeaks in at 699. The fixed power is available for 300, I would recommend the 12X. That will leave you room for a good set of rings and allow you to spend a bit more money on the rifle.
Click to expand...

I don't want to compromise on the scope. I'm drinking the Kool aid that you should spend about as much on the scope as the rifle.

Don't want to get off on a tangent here but would you recommend SWFA over Athlon Helos or Vortex in that price range?

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#12
No.

Trust, maybe as it’s got a stellar reputation. But the helos looks like a heck of a scope. Maybe swfa over the vortex pst gen 1 I assume for the price range

Look at the howa actions in brownells, krg should have the new bravo chassis out for it shortly. Just something to consider. I don’t like the tikka stocks at all either but I will say they do seem sturdy.

edit: this for 30 less with a coupon and 20 buck ffl fee after the fact https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...d84745.aspx?avs|Cartridge_1=AJJ_223+Remington

and the bravo should be like 450 maybe all go shipped when it comes out. That’ll give you 100 for some solid seekins rings and a rail for 60 brings us to 1079, call cameraland and see what they could do for you on an Athlon with the remainder.

Take this as my 2 cents with zero experience with any of it. This is just tonight’s ramblings and concoctions. I went the Remington tactical of recent vintage in 223 and while it's fine Ive wanted to rebarrel it since right off the bat. Shoots well enough that I haven’t yet but not well enough that I don’t still want to.

 
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#13
stephewc said:
I would get a Tikka T3x Varmint in 223 Rem. Comes with a 24" barrel, 1:8 twist barrel and detachable magazine out of the box. You can find them for $850 shipped or less. Use the rest of the money on glass.
Click to expand...
I cannot suggest this enough. Like you already said, if you could buy just the action and barrel you would be set. Well, the varmint comes with stock that has a good vertical grip, and a beavertail fore end. That already puts you ahead of most other rifles. It doesn't give you the ideal mag system but they do make extended mags and billet mags. Bottom metals are also easy to find. I found mine Tikka Varmint 1:8 223 for $745, if you got it for the same that would leave you $700-$800 for an optic. You could find used a Burris XTRii, PST GEN2, SWFA 3-15, or a bunch of others. Heck, you could buy a fixed powered SWFA for around $275-$350 and have money left over for a stock and or chassis. I found my McMillan on sale for $400 from their website. And with the new KRG Bravo chassis, the Bell and Carlson offerings and so forth there are alot of options available to you.
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#14
stephewc said:
I would get a Tikka T3x Varmint in 223 Rem. Comes with a 24" barrel, 1:8 twist barrel and detachable magazine out of the box. You can find them for $850 shipped or less. Use the rest of the money on glass.
Click to expand...

I paid $660+shipping for mine from Whittaker's

It shoots the 75BTHP bullets in the .2-.4 range with hand loads. Real cheap to practice with.

OP,

Mag length is a restriction for the long bullets, but if you stretched your budget you could move up to a Bravo (my plan). Also you could go to something like a 6-24 Argos BTR you could come in under your budget. (my buddy has one on his 223 bolt gun and it is not bad at all, Glass is decently clear and has tracked well enough, but is definitely repeatable)

I put a 5-25 gen ii PST on mine and I couldn't be happier except for the stock.
 
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#19
I just listed my Tikka T3x Varmint 223 on another forum. PM me if you're interested. It's a tack-driver with a 1:8" twist. I shot 75 grain hornady BTHP match bullets out of it, and it was stupid accurate.
 
#21
TommyTwoTone said:
I don't want to compromise on the scope. I'm drinking the Kool aid that you should spend about as much on the scope as the rifle.

Don't want to get off on a tangent here but would you recommend SWFA over Athlon Helos or Vortex in that price range?

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Click to expand...

By limiting your budget to 600-700 dollars, you are already compromising since the top of the heap are S&B and TT (and no, I don't have that kind of scratch either)
I could have been more clear, but was hurried.
If you are willing to go with a second focal plane scope (they are not evil and work quite well), you can get more scope for the same amount of money, or pay less for equivalent quality. (compromise)
If you can live without illumination, again, this lowers the price of the scope. (compromise)
If you can live with 5 mil turrets, this further opens up selection (compromise)
See where I'm going here?
I realize I was less than clear in my original reply.

Also, let me say this: SWFA fixed power scope, Japan. Athlon Helos, China.
Nothing more needs to be said.
The only reason I recommended the SWFA fixed power is your stated use. Relatively short range and target shooting only. The SWFA scopes hold their value well.
If you want a full featured scope in that price range, then by all means, explore the Athlon scopes. They are a stand up company and will back their products. You won't have as much luck with the resale value however.
Another Chinese made scope worth looking into is the Falcon Menace. They have several reticles to choose from.
Nikon has a new tactical lineup of second focal plane scopes that would be well worth looking into as well.
Two of the very best budget scopes out there are the Mueller Tac II, mil/moa scope (compromise). They are VERY good scopes.
http://muelleroptics.com/products/mueller-2-5-10x44-tac-ii/

and the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical:
https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-gr...pe-3-10x40mm-mil-dot-reticle-matte-black.html
 
#22
GGK said:
Don't forget about the $9.00 shipping. It is what is keeping me from ordering one myself.
Click to expand...
spife7980 said:
With the tikka you could just live with the stock until there is a July 4th sale, always an option and it is a $10 spring away from a sweet trigger.
Click to expand...
Mountain Tactical out of Montana also sells trigger springs, and they do free shipping.

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#23
I will probably catch alot of guff for saying this but stay away from everything Athlon below the Ares line. I have the Athlon BTR 8-34 on my 22 precision rifle and I can't stand it. I bought it at a time when I didn't know much about scopes and I have regretted it since. The only reason I keep it on there is because I haven't used my 22 in months and have been putting my money towards other things. You can find some Vortex HSLR 4-16 scopes for around $350-$450 and you will be much better off, you get a zero stop, exposed turrets, parallax adjustment and so forth. Or the SWFA like mentioned above.

Current glass companies have proven that you don't need to spend equal or more to what you're rifle is worth. But it certainly does put the odds in you're favor when you spend more on glass.

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#24
tevan0707 said:
I will probably catch alot of guff for saying this but stay away from everything Athlon below the Ares line. I have the Athlon BTR 8-34 on my 22 precision rifle and I can't stand it. I bought it at a time when I didn't know much about scopes and I have regretted it since. The only reason I keep it on there is because I haven't used my 22 in months and have been putting my money towards other things. You can find some Vortex HSLR 4-16 scopes for around $350-$450 and you will be much better off, you get a zero stop, exposed turrets, parallax adjustment and so forth. Or the SWFA like mentioned above.

Current glass companies have proven that you don't need to spend equal or more to what you're rifle is worth. But it certainly does put the odds in you're favor when you spend more on glass.

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Click to expand...

Great post. I am trying to help my brother find a scope in the $300-$400 range for his 6.5, and I was suggesting some low-end Athlon scopes. I'm a big fan of Vortex, so I'll check out that HSLR. Thanks!
 
#25
stephewc said:
If you're talking about the trigger spring, I got mine from the link below. Comes out to less than $11 total shipped for me. I was able to adjust the stock Tikka trigger to about 1.5lbs.

http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i33.html
Click to expand...

+1

except that you should get their “hunter” spring cuz the Varmint spring is way too light. Super nice crisp trigger these Tikkas have.

While we’re on the subject, just get the Tikka and save up for a McMillan stock. You’ll be as happy as a pig in shit.
 
#26
tevan0707 said:
I will probably catch alot of guff for saying this but stay away from everything Athlon below the Ares line. I have the Athlon BTR 8-34 on my 22 precision rifle and I can't stand it. I bought it at a time when I didn't know much about scopes and I have regretted it since. The only reason I keep it on there is because I haven't used my 22 in months and have been putting my money towards other things. You can find some Vortex HSLR 4-16 scopes for around $350-$450 and you will be much better off, you get a zero stop, exposed turrets, parallax adjustment and so forth. Or the SWFA like mentioned above.
Click to expand...

I assume you have the argos btr? It sounds like youre steering him to vortex over the athlons because the vortex has parralax adjustment exposed turrets and zero stop, all of which be had with the argos btr... so what is it about the argos that you actually dont like?

All I can say is that my talos btr (lower level than the argos even) can resolve 22 holes at 100 with 14x better than the vortex hst can at 24x and the vortex is on its second trip back into vortex this month for a non functioning elevation turret.
 
#27
Tikka is certainly nicer but the Savage 12 FV from Cabelas will shoot just as well. Personally if you can get the Tikka listed above I'd grab it. I've got a couple tikkas and I love the action, and a couple savages, my 6.5 LRP shoots as tight or tighter than my custom.
 
#28
If I was going to buy, I would look at the Tikka. But I ended up with a Ruger American .223, but a Boyds stock and an adjustable cheek riser on it and it works great for me. Shooting 69 to 77 grains, plenty of mag length and the accuracy is amazing. If one really wanted to go cheap, you can be well under $1K complete. Trust me, mine still tells me when I screw up just as well as a $2K rig.
 
#29
You've already gotten the recommendations I would give...Tikka T3x Varmint, scope it and adjust the trigger. Save your cash and grab a stock upgrade for it if you really can't stand the factory stock. McMillan or Manners is obviously a top choice, then there's chassis, but there's also other companies that could serve your purposes. I think I saw that Grayboe is working on a Tikka inlet too.
 
#30
Based on budget and your "my gotta have list", i don't think it is possible. You list that you don't want a factory built rifle and you prefer not to use a gunsmith. Used market and gunshows might be a good option? If you are just shooting paper at 100yds, you really don't need a DBM. Cutting that would save you some money.
 
#31
spife7980 said:
I assume you have the argos btr? It sounds like youre steering him to vortex over the athlons because the vortex has parralax adjustment exposed turrets and zero stop, all of which be had with the argos btr... so what is it about the argos that you actually dont like?

All I can say is that my talos btr (lower level than the argos even) can resolve 22 holes at 100 with 14x better than the vortex hst can at 24x and the vortex is on its second trip back into vortex this month for a non functioning elevation turret.
Click to expand...
Turrets are mushy, clicks are not audible or tactile, they don't track well, when I dial I don't always get what I'm actually dialing, the glass above 24x is useless, no zero stop. When I first got it, the crosshairs weren't centered, the magnification ring wouldn't go above 20x.


Should I continue?

Sure, maybe I got lemon which every manufacture has, but of all my vortex scopes, low and high end I've never once had a problem with them. Even after my one scope went through a roll over in the back seat of my truck, it didn t loose it's zero or anything. The vortex HSLR in the same price range has alot better features.

The only thing the Athlon has over the Vortex is that it can focus down to 10yds, and that is it.

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#33
TommyTwoTone said:
Hi Folks,

I am shopping for my first long gun and I'm dizzy with all the build permutations. I could use some experienced guidance.

I'm looking to build a .223 caliber target rifle. I don't plan on competing or hunting with it. I'm just looking to put tight groups of holes in paper from a bench. My goal is sub MOA accuracy from 100 yards since that's the max distance available at my local range. Occasionally I'll have access to a 200 yard range. I'm aware of the limitations of the caliber beyond that range and frankly it's unlikely I'd ever have the opportunity to shoot 400 yards or more.
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, my .223 shoots just fine at 1K. :)
 
#36
In 2013 I got a Savage 110 223 for $240 that was manufactured in 1972
$110 Boyds stock
$114 Loather Walther barrel from Brownells
$26 recoil lug
$55 bolt handle
$67 cheek rest
$10 paint Brownells
$0 pillars homemade
--------------------------------
$512 total

 

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#38
stephewc said:
If you don't mind I'd like to hear it myself haha. Feel free to PM if you don't want to post it on this thread.
Click to expand...

Well it's no secret sauce or anything. What I think it comes down to is that many shooters have never been exposed to the 223 Rem as anything other than a lightweight varmint and plinking cartridge, or as a blaster with cheap milsurp-type ammo.

Back in the mid 90s the Army Marksmanship Unit was directed to make the M16/AR15 a winning rifle in NRA/CMP highpower rifle matches. They did their homework, which included discussions with civilians who were experimenting along the same direction, and ended up creating what is now known as the National Match AR15.

That was the first time that the AR platform saw the combination of tuned trigger, military sights modified to track precisely in 1/4 MOA increments, free float tube around the barrel, and a fast twist barrel all together and fielded by a military team.

That plus the availability of longer match bullets (most famously the 69 and 77 grain Sierra Match Kings) turned the AR into a rifle that displayed ballistic performance that vitually matched, and in some cases exceeded, that of the 308 Winchester/168 grain match combination.

I don't remember exactly what year it was but somewhere in the late 90s the Army team using match ARs dominated the National Matches and just rolled over the USMC rifle team still using M14s. From then on, the M14 days were numbered.

By the time I started in highpower competition in about 2003, the M1A/M14 was long gone from the scene as the dominant rifle. Talking to shooters who were in the game already they had no doubt that the modern AR match rifle was just as capable as the M1A at the 600 yard line (and they were shooting the scores to prove it), which is the last stage of the standard NRA/CMP rifle match. In addition to being just as capable as the M1A at 600, the AR is superior to it during the 200 and 300 yard rapid fire stages due to its much lower recoil.

Long story short, go take any off the shelf match-type ammo loaded with 75 grain or heavier projectiles and plug in the ballistics into any computer. It will surprise you. And if you handload and have a bolt gun the door opens to a whole new level of performance with 80 grain and heavier bullets and higher speeds that come with longer barrels.

The typical internet/gunshop comments about the 223 Rem "running out of steam" past 200/300 yards or whatever are all said by people who a) have never shot beyond 100 yds, b) think they don't need to mind the wind at all, c) have never used heavy match bullets in that caliber.

Mind you I'm not talking about terminal effects on target. Only talking about the ability to put bullets on target.
 
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#39
308pirate said:
Well it's no secret sauce or anything. What I think it comes down to is that many shooters have never been exposed to the 223 Rem as anything other than a lightweight varmint and plinking cartridge, or as a blaster with cheap milsurp-type ammo.

Back in the mid 90s the Army Marksmanship Unit was directed to make the M16/AR15 a winning rifle in NRA/CMP highpower rifle matches. They did their homework, which included discussions with civilians who were experimenting along the same direction, and ended up creating what is now known as the National Match AR15.

That was the first time that the AR platform saw the combination of tuned trigger, military sights modified to track precisely in 1/4 MOA increments, free float tube around the barrel, and a fast twist barrel all together and fielded by a military team.

That plus the availability of longer match bullets (most famously the 69 and 77 grain Sierra Match Kings) turned the AR into a rifle that displayed ballistic performance that vitually matched, and in some cases exceeded, that of the 308 Winchester/168 grain match combination.

I don't remember exactly what year it was but somewhere in the late 90s the Army team using match ARs dominated the National Matches and just rolled over the USMC rifle team still using M14s. From then on, the M14 days were numbered.

By the time I started in highpower competition in about 2003, the M1A/M14 was long gone from the scene as the dominant rifle. Talking to shooters who were in the game already they had no doubt that the modern AR match rifle was just as capable as the M1A at the 600 yard line (and they were shooting the scores to prove it), which is the last stage of the standard NRA/CMP rifle match. In addition to being just as capable as the M1A at 600, the AR is superior to it during the 200 and 300 yard rapid fire stages due to its much lower recoil.

Long story short, go take any off the shelf match-type ammo loaded with 75 grain or heavier projectiles and plug in the ballistics into any computer. It will surprise you. And if you handload and have a bolt gun the door opens to a whole new level of performance with 80 grain and heavier bullets and higher speeds that come with longer barrels.

The typical internet/gunshop comments about the 223 Rem "running out of steam" past 200/300 yards or whatever are all said by people who a) have never shot beyond 100 yds, b) think they don't need to mind the wind at all, c) have never used heavy match bullets in that caliber.

Mind you I'm not talking about terminal effects on target. Only talking about the ability to put bullets on target.
Click to expand...
Awesome post. I just picked up several hundred match grade rounds with weights ranging from 64 to 77gr. I can't wait to try them out.

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#40
But first, I need a rifle!

So I've narrowed it down to a few options and would love to hear the impression of the collective...

A) Tikka T3X Varmint .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo

B) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG X-Ray.

C) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo.

D) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into MDT LSS-XL chassis.

E) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into XLR Element chassis.

The Remington 5-R is the priciest but I could sell off the HS Precision stock to recoup some of the cost.

Yes, this is bending my budget a bit but I think I could squeeze a lot of value out of the used market for a scope or just go with an SWFA 12X fixed to start with. I've heard lots of positive feedback.

Thanks again to everyone for the help!

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#41
There’s not a bad option listed there, the only additional advise I can give is to try out some of each and see if one stands out to you so long as the twist rates are fast enough for the bullets you want to use. 9 twist is up to 69gr reliably, 8 twist is up to 80 and 7 twist is up to 90. I think all those would have 9 twists
 
#43
TommyTwoTone said:
But first, I need a rifle!

So I've narrowed it down to a few options and would love to hear the impression of the collective...

A) Tikka T3X Varmint .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo

B) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG X-Ray.

C) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo.

D) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into MDT LSS-XL chassis.

E) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into XLR Element chassis.

The Remington 5-R is the priciest but I could sell off the HS Precision stock to recoup some of the cost.

Yes, this is bending my budget a bit but I think I could squeeze a lot of value out of the used market for a scope or just go with an SWFA 12X fixed to start with. I've heard lots of positive feedback.

Thanks again to everyone for the help!

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Click to expand...

I like my Tikka T3x Varmint. Incredible quality for the money. For around 800 you get a gun that is silky smooth. I value that as much as accuracy. I got an Xray on fire sale 2 weeks ago and it is looking sweet. I have yet to shoot it in the new stock.
 
#44
TommyTwoTone said:
But first, I need a rifle!

So I've narrowed it down to a few options and would love to hear the impression of the collective...

A) Tikka T3X Varmint .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo

B) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG X-Ray.

C) Rem 700 5-R 24" .223 & upgrade stock to KRG Bravo.

D) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into MDT LSS-XL chassis.

E) Howa 1500 24" Heavy .223 & install into XLR Element chassis.

The Remington 5-R is the priciest but I could sell off the HS Precision stock to recoup some of the cost.

Yes, this is bending my budget a bit but I think I could squeeze a lot of value out of the used market for a scope or just go with an SWFA 12X fixed to start with. I've heard lots of positive feedback.

Thanks again to everyone for the help!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

As much as I like Howa rifles, their current 223 barrels are 1-9 which is MARGINAL for bullets heavier than 70 grains. So far mine did not stabilize the 75 grain Hornady handloads I have left over from highpower competition. Those were loaded to right at 2700 fps and flew perfectly out of a 1-7 20" AR.

I'm going to give it another try today with loads that should be clocking in the 2850 - 2950 fps range but you need to be a handloader to make them. The higher muzzle velocity may generate enough bullet rotational speed in the 1-9 tube is what I'm hoping.

Out of your list the only one that I would buy is the Tikka. They come with excellent 1-8 barrels and I guarantee that will stabilize any 75 - 77 grain load you can feed them.

Also someone mentioned the Ruger Precision Rifle and that also would fit the bill with its 1-7 barrel.
 
#46
Another point, a 1-9 should stabilize most any factory 68 - 69 grain match loading out there. They drift a little more than the heavies, but drop is about the same.
 
#47
So, I've been lurking around this site for a while and joined just so I could post in this thread.

Bud, this is your first rifle. You're only going to be shooting it at 100 yards with, maybe, the occasional trip to 200. My recommendation would be to get a really nice rifle and throw an OK optic on it for right now. Make sure you really enjoy this before you drop a huge amount of money on a piece of glass that you would use for long range shooting.

The price of optics is based mostly on the quality of the glass, repeatable adjustment, and durability.

1. Pretty much any scope from the reputable companies is going to have pretty decent glass. Do you need a scope that you can use to read a book at 100 yards?

2. You're going to be shooting at 100 yards pretty much all the time, you don't need to adjust your scope barring hurricane force winds.

3. You're shooting a .223, which has essentially no recoil, on the line of the shooting range. You don't need a scope that can handle magnum recoil and being thrown off a cliff.

Short version: You don't need an awesome optic; buy a nice rifle, throw a $200 scope on it, and then buy 1,000 rounds and pound it through the rifle. Make sure you enjoy laying on the ground or kneeling for long periods of time shooting targets before you drop an enormous amount of money.

And yes, I know this counter to most advice on this site.
 
#48
bigscarymonster said:
So, I've been lurking around this site for a while and joined just so I could post in this thread.

Bud, this is your first rifle. You're only going to be shooting it at 100 yards with, maybe, the occasional trip to 200. My recommendation would be to get a really nice rifle and throw an OK optic on it for right now. Make sure you really enjoy this before you drop a huge amount of money on a piece of glass that you would use for long range shooting.

The price of optics is based mostly on the quality of the glass, repeatable adjustment, and durability.

1. Pretty much any scope from the reputable companies is going to have pretty decent glass. Do you need a scope that you can use to read a book at 100 yards?

2. You're going to be shooting at 100 yards pretty much all the time, you don't need to adjust your scope barring hurricane force winds.

3. You're shooting a .223, which has essentially no recoil, on the line of the shooting range. You don't need a scope that can handle magnum recoil and being thrown off a cliff.

Short version: You don't need an awesome optic; buy a nice rifle, throw a $200 scope on it, and then buy 1,000 rounds and pound it through the rifle. Make sure you enjoy laying on the ground or kneeling for long periods of time shooting targets before you drop an enormous amount of money.

And yes, I know this counter to most advice on this site.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd be careful of which $200 scope he buys. A $200 chinese piece of shit that will lose zero at the slightest bump is the same as lighting two hundos on fire. A $300 SWFA 12X with adjustable parallax is a worthwhile expense.
 
#49
308pirate said:
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd be careful of which $200 scope he buys. A $200 chinese piece of shit that will lose zero at the slightest bump is the same as lighting two hundos on fire. A $300 SWFA 12X with adjustable parallax is a worthwhile expense.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. You can buy a lower level Vortex or a Nikon for $200. I've had the same 3-9 Nikon Prostaff on my hunting rifle for 6 years. It's been dropped, smacked off trees, crushed between a horse and a tree a couple of times, and dealt with the recoil of a 7 mag and never lost zero. They were $100 at Cabelas a couple of weeks ago. That said, the SWFA would work well too.
 
#50
So you don't want a factory rifle, but you don't even have the budget for a home rebarrel Savage/Remage setup. There really isn't an answer here. Pick one or the other.

Fact is, you can get a Ruger American and drop it into an aftermarket stock within your budget and have a .5 MOA rifle within your budget. I have a CHEAP Remington donor rifle I bought from Gander closout sale, bottom of the barrel, with .223 handloads worked up for my Rock River AR it's sub-.5 MOA. Almost hate to part it out, cheap plastic stock and all.

Seriously, if what you want is a .5 MOA rifle and you reload, plenty of FACTORY options.
 
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