Gunsmithing Hawkins M5 DBM not latching mag

[j741]

Ok, not high sure if this meets level of 'gunsmithing' here, hope it's right forum.

Yesterday I got a Hawkins M5 CIP length DBM for a 300 PRC I'm building. I first checked to make sure it was CIP length by putting in my MDT magazine. No problem with length, it is CIP. But, the mag catch is not latching it in. I can push a mag all the way in to DBM and its never clicks in. Don't need to press mag release to get it out. Also tried another MDT mag and an AccurateMag mag with same results. Tried to call Hawkins but they are closed today. Called the place bought it from and they say that only accuracy international manufactured mags have the build tolerances to ensure they work in that DBM, and that neither AccurateMag or MDT are constructed will low enough tolerances to work. Yes, they said that exactly, surprisingly. They said to just go buy AI made mags and I'd be fine. Haven't had an issue with these mags in my MPR or my Manners LA Mini Chassis, so pretty sure they're mis-informed or not really interested in addressing this.

Any advice/suggestions? Is there any way to adjust the catch or do I just need to return it and go buy from another more helpful dealer?

 

[Rlandry]

I ran into the same problem wit my Tikka when I changed to a DBM. The mag would not snap into place and this was with an AICS mag.
I used a file and took material off the end of the magazine catch until the mag would snap into place.

 

[Easy_E]

The Hawkins and Mesa catches seem to be a little long compared to PTG . Better to be a little long and have room for adjustment than short .

 

[j741]

I'll have to look at the way its in there. a quick look last night didn't seem to have easy access to file/adjust it.

 

[Easy_E]

You will need to drive the pin out and remove the latch to file.

 

[j741]

yup, figured that out last night I filed it down just a small amount and now it latches fine. Think I need to smooth it out more though as for one mag it takes a good bit of effort to release the mag. seems as the release is moving to slide off there's just too much friction.

Appreciate all the help here! So much better than the guys i bought it from.

 

[Easy_E]

Check the catch on the magazine also for flashing left from molding . You dont want to go too far then check a second mag and find out .

 

[j741]

Last night I only tried with 2 out of my 6 mags since the other 4 were in range bag. I'm going to try them all and then decide if I want to adjust any more. definitely making very small adjustments and may just have a mag or two that I don't use with this rifle.

 

[Terry Cross]

Out of curiosity did you confirm that your standoff distance was to exactly whatever Hawkins specifies? Different makes of DBM have different pillar/inlet standoff heights. I would say 90% of thsee issues I diagnose end up being the bottom metal at the wrong z-axis dim.

Even if you nailed it spot on, I thought this is worth mentioning to others after seeing so many butchered up mag latches and magazines for the wrong reason.

.

 

[j741]

Initially I tried it before putting the DBM in the stock with the action. Just the bare DBM did not allow the magazine to go in far enough to engage the latch. When I did the 4 rounds of very slight filing on each round, I got to where it'd just engage in bare DBM and then tried it in the stock w/action and it still worked well

 

[wade2big]

Initially I tried it before putting the DBM in the stock with the action. Just the bare DBM did not allow the magazine to go in far enough to engage the latch. When I did the 4 rounds of very slight filing on each round, I got to where it'd just engage in bare DBM and then tried it in the stock w/action and it still worked well

So the Hawkins Bottom metal limits up travel of the mags? I only used PTG, Grayboe, and Mesa and the mag will push up through the bottom metal. The action limited upward movement.

 

[Easy_E]

So the Hawkins Bottom metal limits up travel of the mags? I only used PTG, Grayboe, and Mesa and the mag will push up through the bottom metal. The action limited upward movement.

Are you using MDT magazines ? Magpul and ACIS will push through not sure the MDT's will ?

 

[wade2big]

Are you using MDT magazines ? Magpul and ACIS will push through not sure the MDT's will ?

No Accurate mags. I guess that’s the difference. I have never seen a MDT mag in person.

 

[j741]

Even with Accurate mag, I could not get it in far enough to engage latch. It was a pretty tight fit from the start and maybe I could have used much more pressure to get it in but I wanted easy insertion.

Not sure if it matter compared to other comments here, but these are the long action CIP mags. dunno if they have diff shape or travel limits compared to short action.

 

[LRI]

Ok, not high sure if this meets level of 'gunsmithing' here, hope it's right forum.

Yesterday I got a Hawkins M5 CIP length DBM for a 300 PRC I'm building. I first checked to make sure it was CIP length by putting in my MDT magazine. No problem with length, it is CIP. But, the mag catch is not latching it in. I can push a mag all the way in to DBM and its never clicks in. Don't need to press mag release to get it out. Also tried another MDT mag and an AccurateMag mag with same results. Tried to call Hawkins but they are closed today. Called the place bought it from and they say that only accuracy international manufactured mags have the build tolerances to ensure they work in that DBM, and that neither AccurateMag or MDT are constructed will low enough tolerances to work. Yes, they said that exactly, surprisingly. They said to just go buy AI made mags and I'd be fine. Haven't had an issue with these mags in my MPR or my Manners LA Mini Chassis, so pretty sure they're mis-informed or not really interested in addressing this.

Any advice/suggestions? Is there any way to adjust the catch or do I just need to return it and go buy from another more helpful dealer?

Not a big deal to fix first off.

step one. Use a washer, business card, whatever. Get the floor metal off the stock a smidge. This is merely to decisively conclude on what is actually happening. -which is more than likely the floor metal is buried too deep in the stock and the magazine is contacting the action.

You can confirm this further by taking the whole thing apart. With the DBM floormetal in your hand, does the magazine now suddenly insert, lock, and release properly? If it does, it's not the DBM's fault, it's a stock fitment issue.

Assuming what I said goes as predicted, you have two choices:

1. You can bed the floormetal off the stock a smidge.
2. Knock the lever out of the dbm and file a pinch off the latching surface. This will cause the same effect as dropping the whole assembly out of the stock a bit. -My go to solution when fitting up a gun for a function test right before it goes to finishing as its far less work and doesn't molest all the detailed inletting work we do.

Your case overlap with the bolt face is of utmost importance here as your doing this. What you want is the "figure 8". The primer pocket should be tangent to the receiver bore that the cylindrical bolt body tracks inside of during normal operation. When you look down the ass of the action, you should barely see the primer pocket creeping into the bore. This applies to a .480" type case body. .390's won't give you quite that much without the feedlips rubbing on the bolt body.

How all this happens to people:

You have a minimum of 3 different people involed; Larry, Mo, Curly.

Larry makes stocks.
Mo makes the DBM
Curly puts the shit together.


None of them converse with one another and nobody has a standard that is adhered to by all 3. If Curly fucks up and beds the gun +.05" over showline and Larry has a goof and inlets the floormetal a 1/32" too shallow, you end up with over .08" of an inch less rim presentation to the bolt face.

Curly never fucks anything up, just ask him, he'll tell you. Larry says send it in and he'll murder it to make it work. Mo gets the dick sammich cause its gotta be his fault right? After all, he makes the floormetal and that is part not working.

Now what?

Now you have a mess to fix. This scenario is played out far more frequently than the average guy is ever aware of and it is precisely why I gave up and began inletting my own stocks almost 20 years ago and (now) manufacturing my own floor metals.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

 

[j741]

So, Hawkins got back to me today. Apparently they make 2 different CIP versions of the DBM. One is a CIP that fits the AI made mags, the other is a CIP+ allows for the larger AccurateMags CIP Mags. That explains why the accurate mag is such a tight fit in the DBM even outside of the stock. And totally on me for now knowing the difference there. As my other rifles have CIP mag wells and work fine with both, I didn't know that there could/would be different versions within CIP length. That'll team me to build my own setups

Hawkins have asked for me to send pictures of the DBM after my filing of the release to see if it is in resellable condition, and they will advise if they can allow me to do an exchange for the CIP+ version, so I'll see what they say.

 

[j741]

You can confirm this further by taking the whole thing apart. With the DBM floormetal in your hand, does the magazine now suddenly insert, lock, and release properly? If it does, it's not the DBM's fault, it's a stock fitment issue.

Thanks Chad, appreciate the input.

What you are suggesting above was my first test - before putting it in the stock. It didn't fit in the DBM even outside of the stock. See my post just about this for the apparent reason why.

 

[j741]

Hawkins has agreed to swap out the DBM and they even suggested I send my magazine with it so that they can check fit on the CIP+ version in house before sending things back to me. Pretty dang good services from these folks so far. Will get it mailed out tomorrow and see how it goes from here.

 

[LRI]

Andy just rips off the other guy to pass the savings onto you.


He's a good chit. We both have a common friend stuck in a wheel chair that we make fun of when he not within earshot.

No mercy...lol.

 

[Earnhardt]

Will the AI AICS 338 lapua mag fit in your Hawkins CIP DBM?
And would the 300 PRC feed out of the mag?
Or do you need the Accurate Mag 300 RUM mag, and larger CIP + DBM to run the 300 PRC with long seated rounds?
Thanks