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I have a 26” barrel and rifle length gas system. 6.5 Creedmoor.It may. Which barrel and gas length?
Ouch. I doubt you can fix that without a resorting to a new barrel. Your bolt is unlocking way to early and I doubt any amount of buffer weight will fix it. You can try to help out as best you can by going as heavy as you can find. Do they make 1lb buffers?I have a 26” barrel and rifle length gas system. 6.5 Creedmoor.
Thank you
I don’t get denting, but thank you for that Velcro trick. As far as I can tell it’s the extractor chewing up the base of the cartridge.What else have you tried? what are your other parts of the gas system? theres almost always a way but Its going to be a trial and error tuning the whole system. buffer/spring/adjustable gas.
the way I do it is change one thing at a time either spring or buffer and then go through different gas settings to see how it functions.
and you can put a piece of the fuzzy velcro on your deflector to help reduce the denting.
pics? that doesnt sound like it has anything to do with the gas system. ive seen where the little rubber O ring inside the extractor causes issues. most people just remove it.I don’t get denting, but thank you for that Velcro trick. As far as I can tell it’s the extractor chewing up the base of the cartridge.
I won’t be able to post pics for a few hours. It kind of looks like a cut in the base of the case. I am two grains below max powder charge.pics? that doesnt sound like it has anything to do with the gas system. ive seen where the little rubber O ring inside the extractor causes issues. most people just remove it.
Its extracting far to early because of the gas system. I’m not sure the buffer can be weighted enough to fix that issue with a 26” creedmoor barrel with a rifle length port.pics? that doesnt sound like it has anything to do with the gas system. ive seen where the little rubber O ring inside the extractor causes issues. most people just remove it.
it's possible. but if its marks from ripping the case out like you say then it sounds like an excessive gas problem. adjustable gas block would help that.Its extracting far to early because of the gas system. I’m not sure the buffer can be weighted enough to fix that issue with a 26” creedmoor barrel with a rifle length port.
An adjustable gasblock doesn’t help timing. That’s why there are different gas port locations from carbine up to plus three. Plus 2 gas on 20” barrels is common. What length barrel do you have?it's possible. but if its marks from ripping the case out like you say then it sounds like an excessive gas problem. adjustable gas block would help that.
I have a rifle length on a 6.5cm and run a low mass carrier and light SCS. gas is set at about 7/15 on an SLR.
I said he could cut it to 18”-20” as well. The gas length is wrong.theres almost always a way to make it work. telling somone to replace a barrel seems excessive.
mine is 20"
i dont see how the length of barrel effects timing. ive always operated on the notion port position effects timing and distance from port to end of barrel effects volume.I said he could cut it to 18”-20” as well. The gas length is wrong.
Reducing gas flow by adjustable gasblock only helps with volume, not pressure at the port which is what is causing the OPs problem. With a shorter barrel after the port, there would be less peak pressure for a shorter amount of time.i dont see how the length of barrel effects timing. ive always operated on the notion port position effects timing and distance from port to end of barrel effects volume.
if he's getting too much gas too soon . reducing gas will help keep the bcg in place for that millisecond longer and maybe enough for the case to shrink back down.
yeah its better but they all used to be rifle length and it worked. It just took more tweaking. pressure and volume work together to operate the gas system and if you reduce one, you reduce the overall effect of both. If he has an over gass problem. He can adjust it to where his rifle needs thats the whole 26" to operate. isnt that the whole point of an adjustable gas block?Reducing gas flow by adjustable gasblock only helps with volume, not pressure at the port which is what is causing the OPs problem. There is a reason for longer gas lengths on the overbore cartridges. It’s why seekins moved away from the rifle length gas on their SP10 rifles. They were hard on brass and if a user run a suppressor, it was even worse. Daniel defense uses plus 1 on their 20”.
No that isn’t the point of an adjustable gasblock. I though the same at one time as well. I’ll let someone with deeper understanding chime in.yeah its better but they all used to be rifle length and it worked. It just took more tweaking. pressure and volume work together to operate the gas system and if you reduce one, you reduce the overall effect of both. If he has an over gass problem. He can adjust it to where his rifle needs thats the whole 26" to operate. isnt that the whole point of an adjustable gas block?
its not like he said he has a pistol length gas port on a 26" barrel at which point I would probably agree to replace it.
No that isn’t the point of an adjustable gasblock. I though the same at one time as well. I’ll let someone with deeper understanding chime in.
When I get home I’ll post a pic of what it looks like.Yeah we may not even be barking up the right tree marks on brass is pretty vague
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-belted-magnum-problem.7112215/#post-10045692Unlocking timing is a combo of gas port pressure, dwell time, gas flow volume, overall system mass, gas efficiency, cam pin travel path/timing, ammunition pressure curve.
There is minimum volume of gas necessary to initial unlock. If there isn't enough dwell time, the gas vents out into the atmosphere before the BCG receives enough volume of gas. Too much dwell time and you have a excessive gas volume issue. The amount of gas flowing into the BCG exceeds the minimum required to start unlocking and it does so before excess gas vents out of the bore. The amount of volume of gas necessary is determined by how efficient your gas system is (leaky BCG? worn gas rings?) as well as the initial starting mass (semi-auto BCG, full auto BCG, low mass BCG, buffer weight), and necessary energy to compress a spring (the buffer spring plays more of a role in returning the mass back into battery).
If the gas port pressure is too high, the minimum gas volume reaches the BCG too fast starting the unlock cycle too early as well as introducing higher pressure gas that increases strain on various parts such as the bolt. If port pressures are too low, the gas doesn't flow back to the BCG faster than the bullet leaves the barrel leading to no unlock or partial unlock.
Position of the gas port relative to the chamber (pressure), gas port position relative to the muzzle (dwell), gas port diameter (constriction) determine the overall flow rate and pressure. All 3 have to be balanced properly according to the ammunition pressure curve in order to achieve proper timing.
Cam pin travel path is somewhat standardized (although there are a couple of BCGs with extended cam paths) but this dictates bolt rotational unlock speed. As the bolt carrier moves backwards, the cam pin moves along its path which allows the bolt to rotate to unlock.
Ejection pattern is determined by proper extractor tension, ejector rebound and BCG position and movement speed. BCG movement speed and position is determined by how fast the gas flow reaches the BCG and at what intensity (pressure).
If the BCG is cycling too fast, the brass in the chamber doesn't contract far enough to extract out of the chamber and when it returns forward it can attempt to load the next round in the magazine causing a double feed. If the BCG is traveling fast enough but in the overgassed condition, the brass ejects with more force into the brass deflector and this causes it to bounce forward resulting in a 1-2 o'clock ejection pattern. You can also experience even more issues on really overgassed situations such as bolt over base which is brass ejects, bounces off brass deflector but the the BCG returns forward faster than the magazine can push the next round upwards to load.
If the BCG is cycling too slow, it doesn't have enough energy to pull the brass back far enough to clear the ejection port and the brass gets kicked off the extractor claw back into the upper receiver which can cause issues like stovepipes or failures to extract. If the BCG is moving slow enough but far enough to clear the ejection port, the brass bounces off the brass deflector "softly" and this leads to a 3-4 o'clock ejection pattern.
It's a balance.
(I'll probably have to go back and edit something, too tired to proofread.)
Cyclic rate is determined by multiple factors:
Propellant mass (how much powder)
Burn rate
Bore volume
Gas port location
Gas port diameter
Gas block fitment to the journal
Gas tube fitment to the block
Carrier key ID relative to the gas tube flange
Internal carrier bore dimensions relative to the bolt
Projectile mass
Projectile bearing surface engagement with the rifling
Plug dwell time (the amount of time the projectile spends forward of the gas port in a pressure-accumulated state, which can and does include suppressors)
Reciprocating mass (BCG, buffer)
Action spring weight
Coefficient of friction on any articulating surfaces (new BCG rails with rough textured rails are draggier than worn smooth rails, thick lubrication sustains longer and more consistent low friction)
Tightness of the upper receiver carrier raceway relative to the Outer Diameter of the carrier rails (some companies have made tight raceways and/or oversized carrier rail ODs)
Chamber surface texture relative to extraction (smooth allows faster extraction, rough holds onto the case longer)
Ejection pattern isn’t a reliable method for diagnosing cyclic rate but can be an indicator if all the other components in the action are correctly-made (rare).
Extractor lip corner edges and angles on the spent brass deflector can change the ejection pattern on a system that is otherwise properly-gassed.
The more you look at it, the more you start to realize how important following a well-vetted Technical Data Package is, based on extensive pyramid testing if possible.
The simplest of options to try (and is easily reversible) is increase buffer mass and spring strength (example - Sprinco orange + H3 (5.4oz) or heavier buffer)
During my break I called Lantac up and asked about that. They also said my barrel headspace may be too short. However my fired brass does not measure any shorter than that of my other AR10 in 6.5.Have had good luck running the Lantac E-BCG and made a big difference on brass damage even shooting suppressed.
Here are the pics of the brass. The damage is on the left sideYeah we may not even be barking up the right tree marks on brass is pretty vague
It’s the same case if that helps. One second let me take another picTry again with that second photo. It’s blurry.
My guess without seeing a clear photo is that it is an ejector smear.
Is this better?Try again with that second photo. It’s blurry.
My guess without seeing a clear photo is that it is an ejector smear.
Will do thank you. I’ll start with the buffer first. Is the company “heavy buffers” any good?Thats a gnarly ejector smear. The bolt is definitely unlocking too early. I bet that piece of brass wouldn’t fit in a shell holder without filing down the ledge. My friend has a 20” rifle length and his does that with a suppressor attached. His lower has the lighter and shorter .308 buffer that fits in carbine length receiver extensions.
Weight up the buffer and use an adjustable gas block and if that doesn’t help then read post #5.
What Wade said and break out a file.Thats a gnarly ejector smear. The bolt is definitely unlocking too early. I bet that piece of brass wouldn’t fit in a shell holder without filing down the ledge. My friend has a 20” rifle length and his does that with a suppressor attached. His lower has the lighter and shorter .308 buffer that fits in carbine length receiver extensions.
Weight up the buffer and use an adjustable gas block and if that doesn’t help then read post #5.
Any particular type. Never had to do that before.What Wade said and break out a file.
Brass indicates you're overgassed.Will do thank you. I’ll start with the buffer first. Is the company “heavy buffers” any good?
Thank you, have any adjustable gas blocks that you like more than others?Brass indicates you're overgassed.
If you're referencing heavybuffers.com aka "Slash's heavy buffers", they're good to go.
Before you order though, you need to figure out what your current buffer weighs in at. If you're running a H/H1, you got some room to attempt an H2 or H3 (most likely H3) before you have to resort to something heavier. If you're already at H3, you're gonna want to go with the Slash's. If you go too heavy with the buffer, you'll end up with short stroke cycling issues.
You'll also want to double check compatibility with your buffer tube (stroke length reasons).
Sometimes it's best to order multiple buffers in various weights in case you ever run into cycling issues again due to changes in ammo/powder or adding a suppressor or changes in environmental conditions. Having multiple buffers in various weights allow you to tune the unlock timing to the conditions. Summer temps leaving you over gassed? Pop in a heavier buffer. Winter temps leaving you under gassed and short stroking? Pop in a lighter buffer. So on and so forth.
If you want to avoid having a bunch of buffers then an adjustable gas block is the solution.
No strong preference other than clamp on with click detent. Don't like dimpling barrels nor infinite adjustable gas blocks. Infinite adjustable gas blocks screws seize very quickly and is more of a set and forget type of deal.Thank you, have any adjustable gas blocks that you like more than others?
I have two other AR10sIs this your first AR10/LR308?
What are the load/powder/bullet specs for your round?
What is the BTO (Base To Ogive) measurement? How far is your bullet jumping to the lands? It’s not jammed is it?
I’m assuming this is a SAAMI spec chamber?
I’m assuming the BCG/ejector is fairly new?
Yes. It slows the bolt-carrier down, which means it doesn't sling the brass as hard, so yes, it will help. Will it eliminate any wear, I doubt it, the design of the AR is naturally kind of hard on brass, but it will help eliminate beating it up like it is now and help reduce the damage.Will a heavier buffer help keep brass from getting beat up on a 6.5 CM? I don’t run a can.
Thank you
It was not cleaned. A bit of soot I think.The brass that you posted a pic of…has it been cleaned in any form? (It looks fairly clean)
Or is that what it looked like after it was ejected?
Does the brass have “soot” on it after it’s ejected?
Do you think the dual ejectors will make biggest difference?I'd had brand new BCG/ejectors give bad ejector swipes like that also...
It took a while for the ejector face to "smooth out" or wear in...
At first my 358 WSM KAK magnum ejectors were really bad... since they are not flat, but round like a BB, those rounded ejectors really tore the heck out of my brass at first
With how minimal the "soot" is on your brass, I don't think the pressure/blowback is really that bad on your gun
I'll stand by my recommendation of:
9-10 oz Buffer, with Tubbs Flat Wire
Adjustable gas block
Toolcraft Double Ejector BCG with small firing pin
Yep i use the xh in my 308. Really tamed it downWill do thank you. I’ll start with the buffer first. Is the company “heavy buffers” any good?
With what I see with his brass...yesDo you think the dual ejectors will make biggest difference?