Rifle Scopes Help a noob out with optic and gear suggestions please!

[Sinitron]

Greetings everyone,

I have been a competitive handgun shooter for years and finally dipping a toe into the precision bolt-action rifle world. Keeping various affiliates and sponsors in mind, I have decided to support Daniel Defense and Vortex optics in this instance. I would consider this a precision rifle oriented build. I'm not experienced enough to consider myself a long range or ELR shooter yet, but looking to grow into it over time.

I have a new Delta-5 rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor on the way, which comes with a 20MOA pic scope base. I will be shooting mostly outdoors during daylight hours on a concrete bench (edit: at sea level). 100yd stage to zero, up to 300yd max initially, then stretching out to 500-600yds once comfortable in the future. My ultimate goal would be to gain enough proficiency to max out around 1000yd in a class setting. I have not developed a load nor do I reload this cartridge, using retail Federal 123gr open tip match and Hornady Superformance 129gr SST just to get started for now.

Got a few questions, would love some input...

1) As far as a mounting solution - scope base or rings? The base seems more solid, and from what I understand the included 20moa pic base has enough to support up to 1700+yd. Perhaps a 0-MOA base on top with 1" height would be ok for clearance on the front end with 56mm lens? I feel like adding a mount with 10-20MOA additional may be "too much" but I'm open to learn more. I have appropriate tooling and torque wrenches for proper installation.

2) I find myself debating between a Vortex Viper PST II 5-25x50 FFP, or Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 FFP. On the x56, I'm leaning more towards the Tremor3 vs. EBR7C , but that's just speculation on my part understanding the elevation and windage hold over tree, and watching the Horus optic video of it in use at several distances.

3) Along with one of the optics above and the distances moving out over time, would you (or your spotter) rather have a spotting scope in 15-45x65, or a 20-60x85?

Appreciate your help, thanks!

 

[iukamedic]

I’ve always used a rail and rings.

 

[hafejd30]

Add the 20 MOA rail from the get go. Your scope will have plenty of adjustment so no reason to limit yourself from the start

Razor over the PST all day. I believe the razor is a Japan (LOW) made product. I haven’t owned a razor. I did own a couple PST (Gen 1) Philippine made. 2/3 vortex I had failed. Elevation crapped out and parallax knob crapped out

I’d go 20-60 on the spotter. The 85 will let in more light. However larger in size if that will be an issue. 15-20 on the low end won’t make much of a difference if your using for distance

 

[Sinitron]

I’ve always used a rail and rings.

Just out of curiosity, do you lap your rings before install or just use the anodized finish as-is?

 

[Sinitron]

Add the 20 MOA rail from the get go. Your scope will have plenty of adjustment so no reason to limit yourself from the start

Razor over the PST all day. I believe the razor is a Japan (LOW) made product. I haven’t owned a razor. I did own a couple PST (Gen 1) Philippine made. 2/3 vortex I had failed. Elevation crapped out and parallax knob crapped out

I’d go 20-60 on the spotter. The 85 will let in more light. However larger in size if that will be an issue. 15-20 on the low end won’t make much of a difference if your using for distance

Appreciate the tip on the rail, I'll shop for one now that I won't run out of adjustment.

Razor vs. PST vs. the rest gives me the same impression. Made in Japan, then Phillipines, then China as the tiers go down the line. Will lean towards Razor.

I'll give the 20-60x85 a hard look, luckily I'm not hiking with any of these gear in the mountains, just to setup some bench and spotting area. Thanks!

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Just out of curiosity, do you lap your rings before install or just use the anodized finish as-is?

Buy good rings or mount and don't lap them.

 

[Sinitron]

Buy good rings or mount and don't lap them.

Appreciate the tips and info, I was going to ask about EBR7C vs. the Horus reticles but that seems like a much larger conversation.

 

[Zuul]

X2, get some medium American Rifle Company 34mm rings for your Vortex and pop them in.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Appreciate the tips and info, I was going to ask about EBR7C vs. the Horus reticles but that seems like a much larger conversation.

Can't really help you on the Vortex reticles (I'm a Bushnell guy) other than I really don't care for Horus reticles.

 

[Sinitron]

X2, get some medium American Rifle Company 34mm rings for your Vortex and pop them in.

Those M10's are cool, clamshell top with a 410 stainless cross bolt? Nice rings! Bookmarked that for later.

I noticed Spuhr makes a REAL solid looking scope mount, I've got some of their gear on my G36K, but wicked expensive.

 

[theLBC]

your situation is similar to mine (shot handguns almost exclusively since the 80s) so just to let you know that you may not find it as difficult as you might expect. my first time to a range i was hitting any targets on the first try out to 600+ (max at this range).
with that in mind, i would suggest the more powerful spotter, and btw, you will want a decent tripod or the scope will be a pain to use.

 

[Sinitron]

and btw, you will want a decent tripod or the scope will be a pain to use.

Yes good call, I was looking at their rebranded tripods but they look thin or seem ... "less than ideal". They mentioned they use a Manfroto2 mount so I may hit up B&H photo to see if they have something with better legs.

 

[theLBC]

Yes good call, I was looking at their rebranded tripods but they look thin or seem ... "less than ideal". They mentioned they use a Manfroto2 mount so I may hit up B&H photo to see if they have something with better legs.

yeah, i learned the hard way trying to aim the scope on a lousy cheap tripod that shifted the aim if you tried to tighten it.
unfortunately, i found being self equipped for lr shooting (versus starting out with others that already have all the gear) is not for the poors.
i don't want to encourage you to spend money on something i haven't (yet), but i am almost inclined to get a geared head for the spotter, but that might be because i have not tried to aim one on a good quality ball head. currently i am frozen with indecision on whether to get a midrange tripod for the spotter, or go whole hog for a CF tripod that will also serve as a rifle platform. i also don't intend to trek very far so i am not overly concerned about weight either.

 

[hereinaz]

your situation is similar to mine (shot handguns almost exclusively since the 80s) so just to let you know that you may not find it as difficult as you might expect. my first time to a range i was hitting any targets on the first try out to 600+ (max at this range).
with that in mind, i would suggest the more powerful spotter, and btw, you will want a decent tripod or the scope will be a pain to use.

Agreed, it is much easier to shoot long range, if you follow the steps, than most people believe. 600 really isn't hard at all. Search the site for a table called "weaponized math" or get a ballistic app and you can walk it out on the first day.

 

[theLBC]

Agreed, it is much easier to shoot long range, if you follow the steps, than most people believe. 600 really isn't hard at all. Search the site for a table called "weaponized math" or get a ballistic app and you can walk it out on the first day.

to be honest, i could have relied on the tables in my Impact data log book (something i recommend), since i was using fgmm anyway.
the real challenge is reading wind when you get out very far.

 

[pell1203]

Sinitron, if you are looking for a scope or a tripod I'd give Doug a call at cameralandNY.com and he will guide you in the right direction.

He is a very respected and knowledgeable SHide vendor that will give you a more than fair price if you mention you are a Hide member. Many here have purchased from him over the years. He goes by @gr8fuldoug here on the Hide.

 

[Det. John McClane]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I am in the exact same boat. Extensive pistol and carbine work for the last 15 years, but fairly new to shooting beyond 400m. I just ordered the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 today to sit on top of a Rem. 700 SPS in .308 I've had for 4 years but have never shot.

I want to get a rock solid 20 MOA base and rings. What brands do you recommend? I've always lapped my Leupold rings. It sounds like the higher end rings do not need to be lapped.

Also, to follow on the OP's original question, what brand/model spotter scopes to you recommend?

 

[Sinitron]

Just to to follow up, I ended up ordering a Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 FFP tremor3. They have spotting scopes as well, an inside source told me the viper HD 20-60x85 was the one to get.

 

[Det. John McClane]

Just to to follow up, I ended up ordering a Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 FFP tremor3. They have spotting scopes as well, an inside source told me the viper HD 20-60x85 was the one to get.

Thanks for the update. I’ll check out those spotting scopes.