Help Appreciated!!! 6.5 Creedmoor OCW Test with 140 & 147 Gr ELD M

[SMTGWKD]

This is a duplicate post from another thread - since it took a turn to OCW testing on my behalf I thought I'd post a separate thread with that intent to keep the other on track. And big thanks to both Robo1 and Padom for having patience as they both have helped alot in the other thread already.

Alright - here's my dilemma...I'm within inches of just shooting factory Hornady ammo and calling it a day. After pouring over the following data I'm left pretty much scratching my head.... thus far I've yet to match or exceed the factory Hornady 147 load in my rifle (and the factory ammo is apparently loaded 2.800" or between .085-.120" off my lands depending on if I use my Sinclair or Wax/Bullet methods)!!!!! Your thoughts and input are GREATLY appreciated as the only reason I'm tinkering is for better consistency and accuracy with the small advantage of decreased cost per round fired (which is out the window with how many rounds I spend trying to get a solid load). If I can't accomplish better consistency and accuracy then it's back to boxed ammo for me.

Let me know how you would interpret the groups below. Targets with a #1 were shot two days ago and those marked with a #2 were shot today. Differences in #1 and #2 Targets are as follows:

Temperature: #1 was about 85 degrees and #2 was about 95 degrees
Scope: #1 group was shot .2 MILs lower than my zero (accidentally left elevation there from last trip), #2 group was shot at zero (.2 MILs higher than #1 group)
140s: #1 group was loaded 2.600" COAL, #2 group was loaded 2.895" COAL
147s: #1 group was loaded 2.650" COAL, #2 group was loaded 2.900" COAL
Chronograph: #1 group was located 6 ft from muzzle, #2 group was located 2 ft from muzzle in shade to avoid error readings...

My thoughts are as follows:

140s: load 10 rounds at same COAL for charges of 41.8 and 42.8 and see who wins then shoot the crap out of them...
147s: load 10 rounds at same COAL for charge 41.0 to confirm the accuracy and consistency of the load and shoot the crap out of them...

OR - take one last trip to the range to step the COAL for the loads listed above to find the "sweet spot" and then ... shoot the crap out of them!!!

INPUT PLEASE!!!

Baseline Groups from FACTORY HORNADY 147 Match

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i61.photobucket.com\/albums\/h49\/SMTGWKD\/Hornady%20147%20Baseline%201_zpsgvqzav0u.jpg"}[/IMG2]
147 ELD M with H4350 Testing
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i61.photobucket.com\/albums\/h49\/SMTGWKD\/H4350%20147%20Ladder_zpsv4bxgend.jpg"}[/IMG2]

140 ELD M with H4350 Testing
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i61.photobucket.com\/albums\/h49\/SMTGWKD\/H4350%20140%20Ladder_zpshsvxzami.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[padom]

Your 147 OCW is 41.1, Now go do a seating depth test going closer and farther from the lands in .003 increments to find what your rifles likes.

 

[bruddah]

Your 147 OCW is 41.1, Now go do a seating depth test going closer and farther from the lands in .003 increments to find what your rifles likes.

I'd also play with bullet seating depth. I usually go in .005" increments, but I'd like to see what happens either kissing the lands, or close to them like .005" off and go from there.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Your 147 OCW is 41.1, Now go do a seating depth test going closer and farther from the lands in .003 increments to find what your rifles likes.

Thank you again - so kind of you to take a moment to confirm my suspicions on this one. With that in mind, what are your thoughts on the 140 load? I have a stockpile of both projectiles dues to shortages at different times for either round. Since I'm this far in it will be nice to have a load for both rounds in the event I can't find one or the other.

 

[padom]

Thank you again - so kind of you to take a moment to confirm my suspicions on this one. With that in mind, what are your thoughts on the 140 load? I have a stockpile of both projectiles dues to shortages at different times for either round. Since I'm this far in it will be nice to have a load for both rounds in the event I can't find one or the other.

42.5 which is the same charge weight it is in mine with the 140's and is a pretty known node.

 

[SMTGWKD]

I'd also play with bullet seating depth. I usually go in .005" increments, but I'd like to see what happens either kissing the lands, or close to them like .005" off and go from there.

Good input - thank you! With that in mind, what charge load would you pick for the 140 grain ELDs from the data above? This is an act of faith in the OCW test with seating depth, but I think I'm leaning to a load in the 42.3-42.6 area. 41.8 looks good, but I'm better off chasing the higher velocity node as this round will be shot out to 1 mile consistently. The node between 42.1-42.7 had very stable velocity and ES/SD over many rounds fired with very consistent points of impact when you take into account the .2 Mil difference in POA from #1 targets to #2. Sporadic group sizes, but with faith I will venture into stage 3 of the OCW testing to test seating depth and see if the groups tighten.

 

[SMTGWKD]

42.5 which is the same charge weight it is in mine with the 140's and is a pretty known node.

Saw this right after posting to bruddah above - nice to have immediate corroboration to my "gut" feel. Perhaps there's hope for me yet. I'll load them up and post results. Thank you again!

 

[SMTGWKD]

Here you go - seating depth testing for both 147 and 140 ELDs. Lands are at COAL of 2.918" (147) and 2.905" (140). Both rounds had great groups at .010" off the lands, but the 140s had consistent groups from 2.860-2.870 so I'll likely seat those at 2.865 and call it good (you will notice that my only called shot was the 2.895" shot when a rifle next to me lit off and I flinched - I really think that one would have been a quintessential one-hole group as I know I flinched right causing the POI to miss left). Let me know if you see anything else and I'll absolutely consider it.

Also - it was very interesting to see the velocity decrease as the bullet was seated closer to the lands. You will notice an absolutely insane extreme spread for the 147 rounds and more sporadic for the 140 rounds. This is 100% due to the sun conditions - I began shooting in the morning shade with the 147s until the last shot when the sun finally started to hit the Chrony which resulted in an error. The next 3 shots of the 140s were errors until the sun transitioned to full sunlight, but the spreads increased dramatically as a result. The exact same thing happened in reverse order (the 140s showed really tight SD, then the 147s showed bigger spreads in the light). When taken as a whole, the 147 load has an ES of 10-12 and SD of incredibly low single digits while the 140 have an ES of about 13-15 with SD in the low singles.

I'll be loading up 150 rounds to test at 600, 1000, and 1760 yards in the next little bit - I have a feeling the 140 load will be a knockout!

140 Seating Depth Test

147 Seating Depth Test

 

[SMTGWKD]

Finally got out to distance to try these loads. I think I'm good to go (thanks to everyone for their input and support) and the results are as follows. Hopefully this proves valuable for someone who is working up loads in the future. For reference, the distance from the knuckle in my thumb to the first knuckle in my index finger measures 3.75"

147 Grain at 1,000 Yards - first 3 shots of the day. Cold bore is upper right, second and third shots are lower left. (Sorry for the crappy photo quality - I had to snip it from a video file as I didn't take a static photo of this target)

140 Grain at 1,000 Yards - 5 shot group. The one that hit sideways was from my buddy shooting a Bartlein 6.5 Creedmoor. He hit low and WAY right and skipped it into the middle of my group while shooting at another target.

140 Grain at 1,760 Yards - 3 shot group. No wind - perfect conditions shooting almost due North. Took 2 shots to get on target, then shot two more for a group. 1st shot was upper right, second shot was lower right, third shot was left.