Help - buy my first AR in 308

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casob

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Jan 27, 2013
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#1
I need the experience of the members here before I make the purchase of my first AR. I would like an AR in 308. I am torn between the Colt LE901 and the POF. I will admit that I am new to the AR platform but I want to make the investment in a top quality tool.

Thanks for your insight.
 
#3
I wouldn't even consider the two mentioned comparable. The POF is in a completely different league than the Colt. I would go with the POF. I think most people here will say POF. You can see the differences in features and read about the different experiences online. For me I wouldn't hesitate on the POF.
 
#4
casob said:
I need the experience of the members here before I make the purchase of my first AR. I would like an AR in 308. I am torn between the Colt LE901 and the POF. I will admit that I am new to the AR platform but I want to make the investment in a top quality tool.

Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...

I sell most every AR that's marketed today from the store where I work part time in Louisville. All will send a bullet in the direction the barrel is pointed. Based on how you intend to use the rifle: weight, hand-guard hangers, and/or barrel length may be primary considerations. If you forecast a use of the rifle prone from the left shoulder using irons you will want to consider a rifle with no forward assist, a forward positioned forward assist, or a rifle that integrates the assist with the shell deflector. For what it's worth, I've sold more DPMS branded AR style rifles in the last decade than all other brands combined. Most likely folks are buying these because they are among the lowest priced products, appealing to the budget conscious. Yet, it appears, from the very few rifles coming back to the store to be sent back for service or repair, these rifles seem to be really good values. They are heavier than others; but, if you can get over that, they have about a dozen of discrete impingement configurations to meet exacting and/or general requirements. My favorite AR style rifle is the DPMS SASS. It is relatively heavy but for general entertainment, no matter your indulgence preference, this rifle will likely satisfy you. Since it is built to support extreme accuracy needs, you can use it for marksmanship development. My personal experience with the product indicates that the concept delivers on its implied promise for delivering awesome results for the skilled shooter.
 
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#8
Another vote for POF. I've talked a couple of buddies into getting POF rifles and they've never been happier. One of them sold his LMT to fund his POF purchase and he has never once regretted it.
 
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#10
I too love all of my POF rifles/carbines...especially my 20" P308. They are utterly reliable, accurate, and are from a good company that stands behind their products and will take care of you if anything does come up.

That said...you are considering two VERY different rifles of the two you have narrowed down. It might be helpful to know exactly what your needs/wants are in the rifle under consideration, how you plan on running it, and your expectations in terms of accuracy, etc. Neither of the rifles mentioned are bad choices by a long shot...BUT...depending on what you are wanting/needing...neither may be the "best" for you.
 
#11
ORD said:
I too love all of my POF rifles/carbines...especially my 20" P308. They are utterly reliable, accurate, and are from a good company that stands behind their products and will take care of you if anything does come up.

That said...you are considering two VERY different rifles of the two you have narrowed down. It might be helpful to know exactly what your needs/wants are in the rifle under consideration, how you plan on running it, and your expectations in terms of accuracy, etc. Neither of the rifles mentioned are bad choices by a long shot...BUT...depending on what you are wanting/needing...neither may be the "best" for you.
Click to expand...

Guys, first thank you for taking your time to lead a newb to AR your knowledge and experience. I am have to admit that to ORD point that knowing what your needs/wants are would is a challenge for me as this is my first AR. Call me crazy but when I buy a gun they are more than just a tool as I shoot these with my son and plan on passing on my guns to him and the love of shooting and a fine weapon. I wish I could answer ORD's question more intelligently but one of my favorite quotes is simply " You don't know what you don't know".

Sterling Shooter - you will want to consider a rifle with no forward assist, a forward positioned forward assist, or a rifle that integrates the assist with the shell deflector.

I will need insight into the forward assist mentioned by Sterling, I am used to long range bolt action for marksmanship. I am not that concerned about getting a budget rifle as I am getting a semi auto that can be used long range and is accurate. Is there a semi auto that is a long range, precision, battle rifle? Quality is my first priority, any tool that cannot perform when called upon is just a boat anchor. I will be leaving my gun safes, rifles and hand guns as a legacy to my son.
 
#12
casob said:
Guys, first thank you for taking your time to lead a newb to AR your knowledge and experience. I am have to admit that to ORD point that knowing what your needs/wants are would is a challenge for me as this is my first AR. Call me crazy but when I buy a gun they are more than just a tool as I shoot these with my son and plan on passing on my guns to him and the love of shooting and a fine weapon. I wish I could answer ORD's question more intelligently but one of my favorite quotes is simply " You don't know what you don't know".

Sterling Shooter - you will want to consider a rifle with no forward assist, a forward positioned forward assist, or a rifle that integrates the assist with the shell deflector.

I will need insight into the forward assist mentioned by Sterling, I am used to long range bolt action for marksmanship. I am not that concerned about getting a budget rifle as I am getting a semi auto that can be used long range and is accurate. Is there a semi auto that is a long range, precision, battle rifle? Quality is my first priority, any tool that cannot perform when called upon is just a boat anchor. I will be leaving my gun safes, rifles and hand guns as a legacy to my son.
Click to expand...

Don't sweat the forward assist in any way, shape or form. A forward assist on a .308 AR is about as useful as an elevator in an outhouse!! It is just not necessary. If the increased force of a heavier mass carrier, stronger spring, etc. won't get the round chambered...then it probably shouldn't be chambered in the first place!! ;) Also, some of the FA designs common on the DPMS pattern rifles aren't all that useful anyway as instead of engaging the carrier via serrations on the side of it (like AR-15's do)...they push on the rearward-most lip of the carrier which actually gives you very little room to move things along at all and not a whole lot of force anyway.

As for long-range precision semi-auto with battle-rifle levels of reliability...I return to the POF. Mine has been outstanding with a variety of different ammo and with quality match ammo and my handloads, is a consistent sub-MOA shooter when I do my part. Now...if you want a more accurate rifle (THE MOST ACCURATE) that will also give you a high degree of reliability, then I'd recommend looking at picking up a GAP-10. With that, you get the utmost levels of accuracy and reliability of any semi-auto made today, as well as a rifle that is specifically tailored to what you want/need (even if you aren't quite sure what that is ;) ) as you can outfit the rifle within GAP's parameters with custom calibers, barrel lengths, etc., etc., etc.
 
#13
ORD said:
Don't sweat the forward assist in any way, shape or form. A forward assist on a .308 AR is about as useful as an elevator in an outhouse!! It is just not necessary. If the increased force of a heavier mass carrier, stronger spring, etc. won't get the round chambered...then it probably shouldn't be chambered in the first place!! ;) Also, some of the FA designs common on the DPMS pattern rifles aren't all that useful anyway as instead of engaging the carrier via serrations on the side of it (like AR-15's do)...they push on the rearward-most lip of the carrier which actually gives you very little room to move things along at all and not a whole lot of force anyway.

As for long-range precision semi-auto with battle-rifle levels of reliability...I return to the POF. Mine has been outstanding with a variety of different ammo and with quality match ammo and my handloads, is a consistent sub-MOA shooter when I do my part. Now...if you want a more accurate rifle (THE MOST ACCURATE) that will also give you a high degree of reliability, then I'd recommend looking at picking up a GAP-10. With that, you get the utmost levels of accuracy and reliability of any semi-auto made today, as well as a rifle that is specifically tailored to what you want/need (even if you aren't quite sure what that is ;) ) as you can outfit the rifle within GAP's parameters with custom calibers, barrel lengths, etc., etc., etc.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention foreward assist and the GAP-10 in the same post. It reminded me of a few weeks ago when I first stripped it for cleaning. FA, check. Bolt carrier, check. FA serrations, negative. I am of the same thinking that an FA on a 308 ar is kinda not needed but it did give me a little chuckle.
 
#14
When I first stumbled across the Hide looking for info on a new AR-10 type rifle I read a a little diddy, " Buy once, cry once." I wanted a .308 with accuracy second to none in the AR platform and of quality that could be given to my son one day when I am feeding daisies. It was gonna be my first AR and some said buy a mid-range rifle, learn it and then move up into the more expensive rifle. I called GA Precision after reading until my eyes hurt. Spent about 30-45 minutes on the line with Ken and was sold. I do not regret it one bit and it is everything the guys around here said it was. that bitch just shoots, better than the driver but I am learning. Good luck on your decision, but definitely give GA Precision a call.
2012-03-05_12-25-09_444.jpg
175SMKs she likes
IMG_0978.jpg
 
#15
I would take to heart what ORD is telling you. While I do not own a POF in 308 I do own one in 556 (POF 415) and am extremely pleased with it. Very accurate and reliable. ORD has helped me out with his advice more times than I can count and that advice has always been very accurate.
 
#17
This past weekend I went and sighted in my brand new POF 556. Damn sweet, no failures with Russian steel cased ammo, ran super clean and its white hot sexy. I will step up and also buy the 308 version as my next AR.
 
#19
JoshcBoucher said:
If this is "going to be a great gun, to pass on", look at the guys, in Texas, for your gun. They make GREAT GUNS. Forget all the others.Except GAP,Look at Larue.
Click to expand...

Why should he forget all the others except GAP and Larue? Do own one or both of those? For what it's worth, several months back a guy ran his POF next to a Larue OBR and guess which one was more accurate. I'll give you a subtle hint — it wasn't made in Texas.
 
#20
Have had the POF, the GAP, the LARUE, about 10 DPMS guns, and some Mega Arms guns. The mega is my current gun because I would NEVER own a 308 gas gun. Why? It's like putting a Daihatsu engine in your Porsche. Get a 260 or 6.5 Creedmore Gas gun.

However, IF you are going 308 I actually think the Larue is the best. It has to do with consistency. Has POF/DPMS/GAP/Mega made a better gun than Larue? Yup. Did they make 100 guns in a row that were better than 100 Larue guns in also made in a row? Probably not.

Lets just say, getting a Lemon DPMS/POF/Whatever gun would surprise me very little. VERY little. Getting a lemon of a Larue OBR? Not likely.
 
#21
casob said:
I am not that concerned about getting a budget rifle as I am getting a semi auto that can be used long range and is accurate. Is there a semi auto that is a long range, precision, battle rifle? Quality is my first priority
Click to expand...

The answer to that question is yes. From LWRC, POF, GAP, and LMT, to Larue, KAC, and MEGA there are many different manufacturers, and some not mentioned yet. Since your original post asked about POF that has been the focus. It really comes down to personal preference based on what is available to you and what you like. After the rifle will come optics, mounts, bi pod, case....
 
#22
All,

Regarding the info about the forward assist I mentioned in my first post, the problem is a forward assist on a 308 which is positioned in the vicinity it appears on a 5.56 will knock out the teeth of a shooter who shoots such a rifle prone from the left shoulder when the shooter creeps the eyeball to a small aperture receiver sight for maximum brightness. On a 5.56 rifle the most damage likely is a bloody lip or gums.
 
#24
My vote would be for JP or Gap....... In my experience these are two of the most accurate.... Nothing wrong with the others either..... I would not buy DPMS or S&W if this is a legacy rifle.... JP would be my first choice...... Also if it's a legacy rifle I'd stay with a internal piston commonly incorrectly called direct impingement rifles.... Many external piston AR's use proprietary parts(POF, LWRC etc) and while I couldn't ever see those companies going out of business, who knows what would happen if there was an AR ban and replacement parts could be hard to come by.... While internal piston rifles use common interchangeable parts. Just trying to help the op guys.... Not trying to start the which is better...I actually wouldn't mind having the LWRC REPR if I was in the market for an external piston 308.
 
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#25
Regalkismet said:
My vote would be for JP or Gap....... In my experience these are two of the most accurate.... Nothing wrong with the others either..... I would not buy DPMS or S&W if this is a legacy rifle.... JP would be my first choice...... Also if it's a legacy rifle I'd stay with a internal piston commonly incorrectly called direct impingement rifles.... Many external piston AR's use proprietary parts(POF, LWRC etc) and while I wouldn't ever see those companies going out of business but if there ever was an AR ban they could and replacement parts could be hard to come by.... While internal piston rifles use common interchangeable parts. Just trying to help the op guys.... Not trying to start the which is better...I actually wouldn't mind having the LWRC REPR if I was in the market for an external piston 308.
Click to expand...

This is very true but one good thing about the POF piston is that it uses a two piece design that could easily be made on any cnc or manual lathe.
 
#29
If your choice is between a Colt and a POF...If you have the money, drop it on the POF. You won't regret it. My only other suggestion would be a Gap-10, only if you have the patience. Killshot recommended POF to me when I was thinking about purchasing an Armalite...This whole scare came around, and the price of the Armalite went up into POF territory and I decided to drop my coin on the POF. Never looked back.
 
#32
To everyone advising the OP to build one yourself...that is a fine idea...HOWEVER...not as easily done as said.

Certainly building a quality AR with good components is very rewarding especially doing so as a father-son team (I've built more than I care to count at this point, including helping my own Dad with a few), but it comes at a price of investing in the necessary tools/equipment to accomplish the various jobs of assembly (at least to do it properly) and it isn't something that everyone has the time, money, or resources to accomplish (especially if this is going to be your only AR in the foreseeable future). Just something to consider before jumping onto the DIY path with any AR project (unless of course you have friends/family with all the equipment already! ;) ).
 
#33
Point taken. I own a GAP, but not a Larue. Want one, but.... I've "heard" a lot about POFs not holding up. Haven't heard that, about Larue. A "guy I shoot with" loves his Larue. It's a shooter. I'll just 'Leave that on the table, for now" I've heard a lot. I'm still listening. I'm no expert. I believe half, of what I hear. Until I own a POF, I can't say. Just "what I heard". The "gun store talk", can be all over the place. Ford or Chevy. I got a DPMS SASS, and it shoots great. Close to the GAP, and not as finicky, about what it eats. Maybe I got lucky. Still trying to figure it out.Now, I'm reading about all the guys, that LOVE their POFs I might get one, based on that.Hey, I'm just "throwin out my opinion" Read my sig.
KillShot said:
Why should he forget all the others except GAP and Larue? Do own one or both of those? For what it's worth, several months back a guy ran his POF next to a Larue OBR and guess which one was more accurate. I'll give you a subtle hint — it wasn't made in Texas.
Click to expand...
 
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#34
308Shooter1911 said:
Gun Review: Colt LE901 16S

2 MOA??? No thanks!!!
Click to expand...


You might want to take a gander at the 5 round, 6 group shoot in this section, then factor in the likely skill set of the test shooter for the magazine. Most folks on this board, shooting a variety of .308 platforms are just over 1 MOA with the best of the best. If a gun rag typist shot a Colt (which has a tomato stake for a barrel) at 2 MOA, I am willing to bet that in capable hands with a load worked up for it, it shoots a bit better.

OP - sounds like you don't know enough about the subject to know what you want, do you own an AR15? I ask this b/c customizing a '15 is commonplace and will likely help you understand what you ideally want.

As for the 901 may want to look into the nature of the modularity, and the number of folks that have received all their pieces parts to convert the weapon from 5.56 to 7.62. Also may want to consider that many here end up moving through 7.62 to 6mm family cartridge due to better long range performance (how hard would that be with a 901?) Lastly, as an 'all around' weapon - pick one up. A "light" large frame AR is 9lbs (naked). Put an optic / flashlight / laser / IR on it - it becomes very easy to end up with a 12 - 14 pound rifle (unloaded). Point is, hump one around, shoot one fast in CQB environment, shoot one one long against your long range expectations. Do it all rifles do no one thing well. For LR work - there are lots of choices, some of which are inherently better. I have yet to see a large frame AR that would want over a small frame in a CQB setting.
 
#35
I'm also in the market for an AR style .308 semi-auto. The GAP 10 gets lots of love on this site, and I've no doubt that it is one of the most if not the most accurate option out there. I've been looking for a 1 rifle solution to everything from hunting to long range paper punching to tyranny deterrent. Obviously with one tool you have to make compromises and figure out what you're willing to live with and live without. Because of this despite the GAP 10's reputed accuracy I ruled it out because depending on options they weigh 12-15lbs. That is a really heavy rifle to carry while hunting, and for me rules it out as a 'battle rifle.'

POF, Larue, KAC, and some others are making weapons much lighter that are also extremely accurate, reliable, and built to last. I've settled on Larue simply because from what anecdotal evidence I've seen and heard it is very well made and edges out the others in accuracy, and in the case of the KAC price. Larue and POF are priced the same. The wait on the Larue is monumental, no idea how long you'd have to wait for the POF. I've ordered the mythical (because no one has one yet...long story) PredatOBR which I will likely not see for another year. I can wait.
 
#36
Mike_Honcho said:
You might want to take a gander at the 5 round, 6 group shoot in this section, then factor in the likely skill set of the test shooter for the magazine. Most folks on this board, shooting a variety of .308 platforms are just over 1 MOA with the best of the best. If a gun rag typist shot a Colt (which has a tomato stake for a barrel) at 2 MOA, I am willing to bet that in capable hands with a load worked up for it, it shoots a bit better.

OP - sounds like you don't know enough about the subject to know what you want, do you own an AR15? I ask this b/c customizing a '15 is commonplace and will likely help you understand what you ideally want.

As for the 901 may want to look into the nature of the modularity, and the number of folks that have received all their pieces parts to convert the weapon from 5.56 to 7.62. Also may want to consider that many here end up moving through 7.62 to 6mm family cartridge due to better long range performance (how hard would that be with a 901?) Lastly, as an 'all around' weapon - pick one up. A "light" large frame AR is 9lbs (naked). Put an optic / flashlight / laser / IR on it - it becomes very easy to end up with a 12 - 14 pound rifle (unloaded). Point is, hump one around, shoot one fast in CQB environment, shoot one one long against your long range expectations. Do it all rifles do no one thing well. For LR work - there are lots of choices, some of which are inherently better. I have yet to see a large frame AR that would want over a small frame in a CQB setting.
Click to expand...

Sorry bro...If I'm dropping over $2000 on a rifle, I expect it to shoot at least 1 MOA even in the hands of a test shooter. At 50yds it should basically be a one hole group. 2 MOA is unacceptable for a precision semi-auto rifle.
 
#37
308Shooter1911 said:
Sorry bro...If I'm dropping over $2000 on a rifle, I expect it to shoot at least 1 MOA even in the hands of a test shooter. At 50yds it should basically be a one hole group. 2 MOA is unacceptable for a precision semi-auto rifle.
Click to expand...

If it was a 2moa group (1" at 50 yards) I would be willing to put that on the writer being a "meh" shooter. However, the group posted was not 2moa, it was an 8 MOA 5 SHOT GROUP (4" at 50 yards). I'm pretty sure my 8 year old could hold that with a "good shooting rifle" so I am much less willing to put that level of precision fully in the lap of the writer. In the words of the writer, the accuracy was "meh." And, while it may have been a fluke, the writer reported that his sample did not feed reliably.
 
#38
hlee said:
If it was a 2moa group (1" at 50 yards) I would be willing to put that on the writer being a "meh" shooter. However, the group posted was not 2moa, it was an 8 MOA 5 SHOT GROUP (4" at 50 yards). I'm pretty sure my 8 year old could hold that with a "good shooting rifle" so I am much less willing to put that level of precision fully in the lap of the writer. In the words of the writer, the accuracy was "meh." And, while it may have been a fluke, the writer reported that his sample did not feed reliably.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time believing they would put a test rifle in the hands of a "Meh" shooter for an accuracy test. Maybe they should have let your 8 year old do the review, or better yet...My 4 year old...
 
#39
From the review Accuracy was similarly “meh.” The best I could manage was a 1-inch group at 50 yards (so…2 MoA), which then quickly widened out to an 8 MoA 5-round group. There was some left to right crosswind (more of a cross breeze), but I’m guessing the fact that the rounds started walking to the left means that wind wasn’t the issue.

Rounds don't just walk left. Things come loose or the shooter is not capable of being consistent. Secondly, what 'shooter' tests for accuracy at 50 yards? Why tell me that there was wind? CF rounds at 50 - you'd need (eta) GAIL FORCE wind to make any difference - the very fact he mentions it tells me a lot. He is not a shooter.

I would ass_u_me that the accuracy of the 901 is akin to the accuracy of a 6920 - i.e. with match ammo you should be making the vast majority of hits on an IPSC sized steel at 800.

That said *I* have zero interest in a 901
 
#40
Just my .02 worth..

I have had SEVERAL Semi .308 platforms... I recently was able to find a Early - Mid 90's AR10 (T) that has the match Lothar barrel. I have to say that it is a HEAVY bitch... but she is breaking in NICELY and will easily be an under MOA or better riflle with factory 175 match ammo.

If you look on the for sale threads across several boards you can find them around every once in a while. I was LUCKY!!! and found a NEW never shot one... I believe that I WILL be keeping this one forever.

MM
 
#41
Back to the topic.

POF has had problems in the past, and some will be very vocal about this. This made me leery about a purchase of this magnitude. I did a ton of research before dropping $2400 on my rifle. With all my research, the one thing that eventually sold me on the POF was an endorsement of sorts by Lowlight.

I found these articles extremely helpful in my research
Inside POF-USA


Trident Arms Review

This article wasn't available when I was making my decision, but I still found it an interesting read.
California Game Warden Partrol Rifle Selection
 
#42
Maybe he needs the Wonder Weapon of the Future! Of course he could be in his grave before he gets one that meets claims. All inside jokes aside the POF is an excellent rifle. A LaRue, GAP or JP will also be great. The Colt is a fine battle rifle with good resale, but will not have the accuracy of the others noted.

Good luck, shoot the hell out of what ever you choose and have fun!
 
#44
The investment wasn't very high for me. Receiver blocks @$50, a torque wrench for $20 from Harbor Freight, bench vise @$20 from the same. All told, including miscellaneous purchases, my build finished out at $2600ish, and I got exactly what I wanted, from the Norgon Ambi Catch, to the BAD-CASS ambi safety (damn this short thumb of mine!), etc... And I didn't have to deal with selling take-off parts that I had to swap out.

My wait time was right around 5 months to gather everything, the receivers being the main delay.

You make a good point in that there may(WILL) be some waiting involved for some scarce parts, but I didn't get the impression it's an absolute necessity for him to have it RIGHT MEOW.

Up to you OP, do what works out best for your needs!

ORD said:
To everyone advising the OP to build one yourself...that is a fine idea...HOWEVER...not as easily done as said.

Certainly building a quality AR with good components is very rewarding especially doing so as a father-son team (I've built more than I care to count at this point, including helping my own Dad with a few), but it comes at a price of investing in the necessary tools/equipment to accomplish the various jobs of assembly (at least to do it properly) and it isn't something that everyone has the time, money, or resources to accomplish (especially if this is going to be your only AR in the foreseeable future). Just something to consider before jumping onto the DIY path with any AR project (unless of course you have friends/family with all the equipment already! ;) ).
Click to expand...
 
#46
308Shooter1911 said:
I have a hard time believing they would put a test rifle in the hands of a "Meh" shooter for an accuracy test. Maybe they should have let your 8 year old do the review, or better yet...My 4 year old...
Click to expand...

That sounds like a challenge to these Texan ears... Now to find a rifle suitable for the two tykes- not the colt, ha!! Like I need another reason to buy a rifle...
 
#47
hlee said:
That sounds like a challenge to these Texan ears... Now to find a rifle suitable for the two tykes- not the colt, ha!! Like I need another reason to buy a rifle...
Click to expand...

Don't think for a second that I haven't thought about putting my 4 year old behind a rifle...He would already be on my POF if it weren't for my wife and fact that he can't reach the trigger...
 
#48
POF owners? I have been looking at the local gun shops and they are running $2800 if paying cash. I have one concern are the muzzle breaks permanently attached from the factory?
 
#50
casob said:
Is there a semi auto that is a long range, precision, battle rifle? Quality is my first priority, any tool that cannot perform when called upon is just a boat anchor. I will be leaving my gun safes, rifles and hand guns as a legacy to my son.
Click to expand...


LMT MWS i.e. the British L129A1.

You want to try out calibers later with better ballistics no problem just buy a barrel, bolt, remove and replace two screws, all done.

One thing to keep in mind, the rifle will not be the biggest part of your investment. More often than not the scope can cost more than the rifle, all the little luxuries that go along with the rifle add up in cost.

Choose your brand of rifle and buy the other stuff after you research and save.

It was good there was a 9 month wait for my rifle as it allowed me to spend my kids college money on this

PC015369.jpg


while I waited.

Before you get into this ask your son if he wants his legacy to be this rifle you intend to buy or furthering his education.

If you end up with something like this

P1015523_zps1af5c1be.jpg


fear not because plumbers and electricians make way more money to buy ammo than the journalism majors coming out of college these days.
 
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