Help me brainstorm my path to LR shooting.

[therooster]

My current knowledge and experience
I started competing in IDPA around 2004-2005 doing weekly local matches and one monthly match. I also sought out professional instruction for pistol and carbine shooting as much as possible; training with Paul Howe, Gabe Suarez, Bill Jeans, and a couple more local folks who aren’t well known but have impressive resume’s. The point here is I was lucky enough to have a great local club that taught me the importance of having a good foundation and practice of fundamentals.
Around 2009 life got in the way and I had to stop doing the above things I loved. I am just now getting back to the point to where I can pursue my hobby and have a new interest in LR shooting.

My goal
- To learn and perfect LR shooting for sporting and hunting purposes.
- Learn and perfect reloading.
- Go to quality schools for quality instruction (the fun part).

What I have available to me
- Private land with 320yrd range and possibly a 640yrd range (why it’s a “possibly” will be addressed later)
- Friends/family who want to learn and participate with me
- SWFA SS 3-15x42 FFP mil/mil
- 2 ARs, neither of which are precision platforms
- 1k+ mixed rounds of 223/5.56 ammo and 1k+ once fired 223/5.56 brass

Where I am now
I have researched and researched and researched and am now to the point to where I need to pick a path, make a decision, and roll with it. I just need the advice of those of you who have traveled down this road.
I have narrowed my choices down to two paths; both are budget oriented, geared towards proper learning of fundamentals, and designed to get me out shooting ASAP.

Path 1
Spend $350 - $500 on a quality barrel for one of my ARs
Pros
- I am familiar with the platform
- Ammo is available and inexpensive comparatively
- I already have ammo and brass
- When I start reloading it will be KISS because it will be for 1 caliber only
- It’s a low BC platform which should allow me to learn wind calls at shorter distances?
Cons
- Don’t know if the AR platform is a good choice to start learning the basics of LR shooting.
- Range is limited, which means professional instruction may be limited?
- Will eventually have to go to a bolt gun platform

Path 2
Spend $500-$1000 on a basic bolt gun in .308. Yes, .308 is my final decision on caliber.
Pros
- Ammo is available and relatively inexpensive
- Bolt is better to learn basics and fundamentals on?
- Ability to take professional instruction at almost any LR school
- Will not have to upgrade to a different platform as in path 1
Cons
- More expensive path
- Less knowledge and research done on bolt platforms
- More expensive to start reloading because I will be reloading for 2 cartridges.

I tried to keep this short so if anything is unclear please ask for clarification.




Possibility of 640yrd range
Someone may be able to answer this. The 640yrd line shoots over the Brazos River which is state property and considered a navigable waterway. I know you can hunt on the river, but can you shoot across it from your property to your property legally.



looking forward to some tips, advice, and discussion.

 

[Ledzep]

A bolt gun will serve you much better than an AR for LEARNING precision shooting. They're more consistent, you have less moving parts and no gas system to tune etc. etc.. Simplicity in the system will make things much easier on you.

Path 2 for sure. Pay for the videos from Lowlight, there's a lot to learn just from watching them. Dry fire when you can't shoot. Upgrade the bolt gun when you can afford it.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Wow man, you've been doing some serious thinking on this. My start is very similar to yours and I even had to set things aside in 2009 for a couple years.

I've been doing the LR thing for a couple years now - meaning I started to put a rifle together and learn the fundamentals. I'm sure others have different experiences and suggestions, but one thing that I have come to notice is that I can shoot certain rifles better than others and I believe this is due to the stock design and how it fits me. For example, I my long range rifle is a 260 Rem mounted into a AICS. I can shoot this the most consistently. The next most consistent rifle is a Tikka Varmint in 22-250 that is basically stock. Once in a while I throw a flyer, and I think it's me and not the rifle. I've recently been trying to spend some time with an accurate AR-15 that I have. I put a Magpul PRS on it to help fit it to me, but I'm still not very consistent with it.

For your case, I would suggest giving it a try with your AR. You will want to free float the barrel if it isn't already. Take a look at the PRS. They're kinda pricey but help to get the rifle to fit you. You'll need to learn how the mil measure of angle works and how to put it into practice. Then there is reading wind and other conditions and adjusting your trajectory.

I learned by doing lots of reading online and also watching the Rifles Only DVD's a bunch.

I don't know anything about shoot across water ways in TX.

Good luck!

 

[Steel head]

An AR will do pretty decent to 600 but what happens when you want more and you WILL want more.
Tried it with 223/5.56 in a AR with a very good barrel and learned a lot, mostly that a bigger cartridge is a much better option and a bolt gun is good way to go.

So option B for sure.
Also don't discount the 6.5's or 7-08, especially if your gonna reload.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

OP.
You can learn everything there is to know about good shooting with an AR, i.e. a match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A2 with as issued type iron sights. The concept forces learning of all things important to good shooting. The A2 is preferable to the A4, being easier to adjust sights from mid to long range. Shooting such a rifle in NRA LR Service Rifle Division will promote learning about the elements and factors of a steady position, proper use of the data book, counters for wind and weather effects, and the principles of marksmanship, skills necessary for the best results at LR. Trying to learn LR with a scope sighted rifle resting in a bipod is not conductive to training for a multitude of reasons, mostly because the bipod dulls the shooter's sense for NPA, while the scope undermines the shooter from developing or recognizing his natural ability to understand where the barrel is pointed without any need for magnification.

The bottom line, the scope sighted gun in a high b.c. caliber resting on a bipod is a very effective substitute for marksmanship skill. A novice shooter can often shoot with such an outfit on a calm day and perceive that he knows all he needs to know. For a reality check he should sling up with an AR. He will notice that results with the AR are not as good, but not for the reasons he suspects. He thinks the gun is not as consistent as his bolt gun. He also thinks the sights do not allow for recognition for exactly where the barrel is pointed. On both counts he has placed blame for his own inadequacy onto the rifle.

 

[therooster]

thank you guys for the replies so far.

i am definitely a fan of simplicity/KISS, and i do plan on paying for Lowlights videos

An AR will do pretty decent to 600 but what happens when you want more and you WILL want more.
Tried it with 223/5.56 in a AR with a very good barrel and learned a lot, mostly that a bigger cartridge is a much better option and a bolt gun is good way to go.

So option B for sure.
Also don't discount the 6.5's or 7-08, especially if your gonna reload.

your underlined statement was certainly running through my mind when plotting both paths and is the reason i came here to seek the advice of those who went through the same trial and error process when they began LR shooting. simply put, anything worth doing is worth doing right; i just dont know which path is "more right".

OP.
You can learn everything there is to know about good shooting with an AR, i.e. a match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A2 with as issued type iron sights. The concept forces learning of all things important to good shooting. The A2 is preferable to the A4, being easier to adjust sights from mid to long range. Shooting such a rifle in NRA LR Service Rifle Division will promote learning about the elements and factors of a steady position, proper use of the data book, counters for wind and weather effects, and the principles of marksmanship, skills necessary for the best results at LR. Trying to learn LR with a scope sighted rifle resting in a bipod is not conductive to training for a multitude of reasons, mostly because the bipod dulls the shooter's sense for NPA, while the scope undermines the shooter from developing or recognizing his natural ability to understand where the barrel is pointed without any need for magnification.

The bottom line, the scope sighted gun in a high b.c. caliber resting on a bipod is a very effective substitute for marksmanship skill. A novice shooter can often shoot with such an outfit on a calm day and perceive that he knows all he needs to know. For a reality check he should sling up with an AR. He will notice that results with the AR are not as good, but not for the reasons he suspects. He thinks the gun is not as consistent as his bolt gun. He also thinks the sights do not allow for recognition for exactly where the barrel is pointed. On both counts he has placed blame for his own inadequacy onto the rifle.

Mr. Sterling. i understand what you mean and do not disagree with any of it. i learned the AR platform from square one with a stock bushmaster and iron sights. i also understand your second paragraph to a T from my own experiences, allow me to share. i started competing in IDPA with the XD and Glock pistol, and again was lucky to have a local club guide me down the right path of basics/fundamentals. i practiced and practiced and dryfired and dryfired with my Glock and became a very accurate and fast shooter, almost always the most accurate in our local matches and even fast enough sometimes to give a professional shooter a run for his money. and then... i put a quality 1911 in my hands and oh my god i had no idea how accurate i really was. it was my fundamentals/skill making that pistol do the work and not the other way around.

with that said herein lies my dilemma. my shooting partners are all running quality .308 semi auto platforms with quality optics, and we live only 2.5 hours from Rifles Only. none of them have been to a professional facility for professional training; i need an option that will allow me to take the Rifles Only courses(or equivalents) with them, because when they do take a course they will get hooked just like i did. if Path 1 will allow me to take the courses with them and get the full potential from the instruction then i can get into it much faster for much lower cost.

 

[Bender]

Let me know when you perfect reloading..... Lol. Always something to tweak....

 

[jrassy]

Path1, this will eventually lead you to path 2.