Rifle Scopes Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

[rmcalhany]

Looking for my last scope for my 5R build. Debating between the following (which I have not been able to see in person)

Swarovski
Z6i 3-18x50P (perhaps w/ the Ballistic Turret and Swarovski Rail options).
Pros: Greater range
Cons: Greater cost

Nightforce:
NXS 3.5-15x50 F1

US Optics
SN-3 3.2-17 w/ Ergo, 35mm Tube, Mil-Gap reticle, Illuminated.

Nightforce & USO are almost identical in price (~$500 less than Swarovski).
Also, I bet I can find a gently used Nightforce or USO here for ~$2000.

I would appreciate any thoughts/comments you have.

Thanks.

Robert

 

[jasonk]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Have you thought about the Premier 3-15x50 as well? It's in the same range as those other scopes you're mentioning and top quality glass.

Not to make this a sales add but it's right in the price range you're looking at, I've got a gently used one in Seekins rings I'd sell you for $2150 shipped.

 

[i_rep]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

I have an SN-3 3.2-17x44 ERGO, 35mm tube, Illuminated, but it has an MOA type 1 reticle and 1/4 #1 knobs. I would let it go with USO 35mm rings for 2250 shipped.

Mark

 

[hydro556]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Of the ones you mention, I would go USO, never tried a Swaro though. Wouldnt mind having one on a hunting rig.

All the scopes you mention have great reputations.

 

[strick9]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

dquill has a NXS for sale in great shape for a nice price, not FI but NP-r2 reticle. Swaros are much lighter and have clearest glass to my eye, not familiar with their dial up. But I own a 4x12x50 PV with TDS, I like it but it is F1 and by max mag the reticle covers way to much target. Never gazed through USO or PH.

 

[mik3]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

USO or Premier

 

[Johnson184]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

I'm in the exact same boat that you're in. I would like to spend $3000 or less for a illuminated mil/mil FFP scope. Here's what I've gathered in my research...

S&B
Positives: Seems to still be the best that you can buy.
Negatives: Cost and waiting time

USO
Positives: Right up there with all these other manufacturers. Amazing customization abilities and a ton of reticle options so price can be as low as around $2000 to as high as $3000.
Negatives: Waiting time is about 4 months I believe. However... ordering stuff like Horus reticles greatly increase the waiting time.

Nightforce
Positives: Usually cheaper than these other scopes. Hardly any waiting time as they produce their scopes in standard configurations. Good reticle choice.
Negatives: Not much customization offered.

Premier Heritage
Positives: These are new and are apparently pushing S&B for Top Dog contention. Apparently these have the best design, and I haven't heard anything bad about them at all. Could just be all the excitement about how they're new.
Negatives: Waiting time possibly. Depending on where you order your scope. Limited reticle options.

What I recommend is to first find a reticle that you love. I loved the Horus reticle but am now moving away from all horus products and loving the TMR reticle. Next find out which manufacturers offer you that reticle. This should help narrow down your selection. This is a rough ranking from what I can tell from people who have done scope comparisons with scopes that they own. However, I plan on personally trying to see as many of these in person as I can.

1. S&B/Premier heritage
2. USO
3. Nightforce

Please don't flame me, these are NOT FACTS. I am merely trying to write what others are telling me based on their personal experiences. I am personally leaning to the USO as I love the custom possibilities and reticle choices. All of these scopes have great warranty and quality. People are telling me that they've tried S&B and PH right next to USO scopes and that USO scopes are now lacking in clarity. That's why I'm hoping to try them in person. But I'm also keeping in mind that I won't be shooting in dimming conditions too often, and weight/size differences won't affect me as I am shooting for fun and not for a living.

Hope this post helped.

 

[rmcalhany]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnson184</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hope this post helped. </div></div>

It does. I think Premier/S&B are out of my price range. I really am having trouble with >$2200. Hence why I'm leaning away from Swarovski, and thinking of finding a SN-3 gently used.

But after further examination, I may be able to go with a new NF. I just need to hear more thoughts and then try to find somewhere to look through some of these.

Anyone know where (if anywhere) in the Bay Area (Nor Cal) somebody stocks NF &/or USO?

thx

Robert

 

[hydro556]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

If you do decide to drop the coin for the $2500 plus priced optics, do not leave out S&B. After finally mounting a PMII, I decided to leave it on, after having gone through a bunch of other high end glass. Dont get me wrong, I think highly of both USO and Premier, but the S&B PMII doesnt take a back seat to any of them in optics or durability. They have a proven record of being nails tough and the glass is second to none.

It is the first scope I have had that often compels me to leave my Kowa spotter in my pack.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

I've owned all the scopes mentioned in this thread except for the Swarovski and used them in matches in all weather conditions and ranges. I've run them through their paces and tested the reticles and knobs for proper tracking and subtension. After doing so I am running a NF F1 on my match rifle and on my practice rifle. Love the scope. Second choice would be the Premier or an S&B, then USO.

Also remember the NF F1 comes with a set of NF Ultralight rings and a sunshade for the cost. Get ahold of Mike Cecil at CSGunworks.com He is in NorCal and can help out. He's here on the Hide also. Here's a link to his profile where you can get ahold of him through a PM or email
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=5397

 

[spot69221]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Buy a NF, upgrade later...

you may find out that the upgrade is not really needed.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Is the glass in the NF F1 any different than the 2fp NF's? I have never even seen one of the F1 Nightforces. That is a pretty strong endorsement Rob. I will have to at least try to check one out.

 

[DoubleBarrel]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

has anyone seen the S&B PMII's that mile high has for sale in the trader section? seems like very good prices. no wait time.
I don't know how to post the link, sorry but it is under commercial sales, the second page 6 or 8 down or so.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Robert,

How about an IOR? Like this one: 3-18x42 FFP Sniper's Hide Edition $1495, from Liberty Optics. It's a bit behind the other scopes your looking at, but is much cheaper with very good glass,.

Lot's of bank for your buck, no matter what Swamper says about them 2 Romanians chained to a bench fixing the damn things....They gotta eat too

Bob

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rmcalhany</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics
SN-3 3.2-17 w/ Ergo, 35mm Tube, Mil-Gap reticle, Illuminated.
</div></div>

If you decide on USO, here is a gently used one....

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...838#Post1299838

 

[buckey]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

For me, S&B is the way to go. Buy once, cry once!!

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the glass in the NF F1 any different than the 2fp NF's? </div></div>

Not sure as I don't own one but from memory of using the SFP NF out to 2000 on the Chey Tac I would say the F1 is just as good if not better. I had no problem seeing flowers and an MOA sized target at 2000 with the SFP 5.5-22 so the glass is plenty good.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you thought about the Premier 3-15x50 as well? It's in the same range as those other scopes you're mentioning and top quality glass.

Not to make this a sales add but it's right in the price range you're looking at, I've got a gently used one in Seekins rings I'd sell you for $2150 shipped. </div></div>

+1

If there is an advantage to NF is that there are lots for sale used.

 

[csgw]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

The glass is the same in the F1 FFP as it is in the SFP. If we can be of help feel free to ask.

Thanks for the recommendation Rob.

Mike

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

I am in the same boat as you. I am also in the market for a high end "tactical" style scope. I hate saying that word, but I guess it is the current buzz word.

I am not new to high end glass. I have owned a couple of Zeiss scopes for almost 30 years. I also own Swaro. binos. and rifles scopes.

Now for my comment. What scares me the most about buying a new NF is that you see so many used ones, or "gently used" ones for sale. However you do not see that many used or "gently used" Swaro's and Zeiss scopes for sale. And I believe there are a bunch more Swaro's and Zeiss scopes out there. I know one thing for sure. I would never sell any of the ones that I have. So why are there so many used NF's out there?? That is what worries me a bit abou buying a NF. Tom.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

How many NF scopes have been sold compared to those being resold? Also you will learn here that people sell things to buy other things or if they need money especially with the economy like it is more than anything being wrong with them.

I have sold 3 S&Bs, a Premier and 5 USOs and might be selling another Premier. Does that make you not want to buy any of those?

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also you will learn here that people sell things to buy other things or if they need money especially with the economy like it is more than anything being wrong with them.

might be selling another Premier. Does that make you not want to buy any of those? </div></div>

+1.... and many are simply selling to go mil/mil......

I'd be happy to take that junky Premier off your hands...

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Because everyone is upgrading to a Premier!

All kidding aside, I would not worry about buying a NF or pretty much any of the high end glass manufacturers out there. For the money, I would say that the NF is incredibily hard to beat. And I really don't think not everyone needs FFP or Mils either.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

Hogghead,

You see so many used Nightforce scopes for two reasons:

1) Nightforce is a very popular scope, and has a very nice price point for what you get. Meaning they are cheaper the S&B's, PH's and the like, but better glass than say the Leupold line. Nightforce is considered a top of the pack scope, offering a lot, with a more middle of the pack price.

2) Nightforce until recently offered only MIL/MOA scopes. Only very recently have they offering FFP and MIL/MIL options. Many owner are selling their MIL/MOA scopes to buy FFP's and MIL/MIL, scopes. Some are buying newer Nightforces, and some are upgrading to USO, S&B or PH. S&B, USO, Hensholdt's and PH's are considered upgrades over NF. So many guys that bought NF's are upgrading.

I think that NF's new F1 are as good as anything out there, but opinions vary, and that's just my IMHO.

3) Most of Swaro's and Zeiss's are hunting scopes not tactical. There is no big push to replace a hunting scope, on a hunting rifle, with an FFP MIL/MIL Tactical scope. Also S&B, Swaro and Zeiss hunting scopes are already top of the line in pure hunting glass, no need to sell them to upgrade. Nothing to upgrade too....

So don't be scared. NF scopes are good to go. The only "mistake" you can make at this point, is once you decide to go with a NF, is buy to buy the wrong NF for your application/need. You've gotten some great advice on this subject, in this and other posts.

Set your mind at ease and buy one already. And don't forget to report back on how well it works. We love range reports....

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Muskett]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

NF just don't ooze quality like Zeiss, Swaro, S&B and USO. However, they do work. Also their glass is not as good; probably on par with USO.
USO are tough so are S&B and NF but do you really need to carry the weight that these brick houses have.

If you want tactical go S&B. If hunting then Swaro or Zeiss. If you have a laser rangefinder then go second plane as they are better for long range. If dusk or night shoots are likely then illuminated. All the makes do Tactical click turrets, S&B are the best (thank goodness they now do second plane), and are a must have if you want to reach out far. Complicated reticles are only any use if you have too much time on your hands; for hunting they will loose you game..

If you can't decide then go NF with all the whistles but do try to get one that you like. After you have played with all the toys you will realize you don't need all of them and can change to a scope with the things you know you need/are useful. Thats the reason NF scopes are sold on.

If I had the money then a Zeiss 60? reticule or Swaro?? illuminated. Mildots in the second plane are good too but it has nothing to do with rangefinding.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Help me choose between Swarovski, USO, NF

My only comment was that so many being sold on the used market worries me. I did not say it reflects on the quality of the scope. I would not say that, because I do not know that to be true.

The only thing I do know to be true is that I want to buy the best I can for what I can afford-or in other words I want to get the most bang for my buck.

Personally I can not afford to buy and sell a bunch of different scopes. I just want to get it right the first time.

I am sure you guys are probably right. And that alot of them are for sale because they want to upgrade. I do not want to upgrade I want to buy the right scope the first time.

I do know one thing for sure. If you buy top quality you will not loose money. I bought a LH Dakota 280 and mounted an S&B on the rifle in 1989 or 1990(don't remember exactly). With rifle, scope, and mounts I had about $2700 in the entire rig. I don't want to sell, but I bet it would be worth a good bit more. Will the NF still hold that value in 20 years?? That is the important question. I would like to have a buck for every time somebody tried to buy that rig.

I have been a hunter for a lot of years. And the equipment I have has been more than adequate for shots out to 500 or even 600 yards. However now I want to learn to extend that hunting range out to 800 yards, or possibly even 1,000 yards. So it is a new world to me. Tom.