Help me decide a direction of build?

[Doggitter]

I'd like to get into some long range shooting and would like some serious feedback on my choices to build with. I have an old 1970's(?) Savage 110Varmint that came with a stippled stock first used on the Silhouette 110. It's chambered in .223, has always shot real good even though the inletting and bedding is way sideways. The inletting is around 1/8" off at the fore end, the bedding is off .03-.05" from the inletting. Nasty. And, the trigger pivot pin is bored crooked in the body. I've used and abused this thing for 20some years, because it's always done me good. Second choice is a Ruger Varmint from the 80's, the MKII version of the brushed ss barrel, but non-brushed. I believe they made them for just a couple years before going brushed. That is in .243 and hasn't been shot a whole lot. I should be getting a 6B high ring tomorrow for the cheap 50mm lense scope for it. The Savage will need a barrel, trigger, stock with bedding, and a bolt head at a minimum. I'm unsure about the accuracy of the Ruger as I've never run it enough on paper to really see how it does. When I quit using the Savage so much a while back it was still a real shooter, but that's pretty much moot point since almost everything there would be changed to go LR.
I used to shoot club bench matches about 20 years ago so I'm familiar with that end of things.
I'd like to use the Savage, if so I'm wanting to know what's the biggest family of cases that action will handle without feeding issues?
On the other hand, is it even worth it to start with the Ruger, in it's .243 condition, or rebarreled to a 6.5CM or .308 with ammo everywhere?
Money is a major factor. And, I'm looking at learning experience level accuracy for now, not match winner grade. I know I could find good, used/tested barrels for either with few enough rounds that are worth the fitting so I don't think that's an issue. Match grade or otherwise light pull trigger selections for either looks to be horrible.
No, I'm not joking. I'd prefer some real discussion so I can sort this out.

 

[TheGerman]

Just get an MRAD

 

[Delicatessen]

Since it sounds like money is a huge issue I would test groups with the 243 with some hand loads and if appropriate ~1/2 moa work with that. I would just spend what money you could on a decent ffp scope. In time you would probably want something else as the ruger won't have a lot of support but this way you really aren't spending on anything you can't use down the road (scope that is). If the savage action is in rough shape I would probably hold off on spending too much on it and see what actions come up in the post exchange.

 

[CharlieNC]

Your planned shooting interests aren't clear, except you mentioned LR; what does that mean to you? While I have better suited rifles I love shooting my 223 at 1000yd; no issues with controlling verticle but the wind can be a challenge. Your old Savage can be easily and economically updated. It probably has a 3 screw fully adjustable trigger; slightly polish, install lighter spring (just a piece of wire), and adjust for great performance. On the stock, remove enough material to gain enough clearance to bed it yourself. That leaves the barrel which the barrel nut allows you to swap yourself. There are many Prefit options, and CBI is an excellent choice. An 8 twist will run a great range of bullet weights sufficient for 1000yd. Mine is only 22in and does fine. If you enjoy doing the work yourself, this can be rewarding as well as economical. Details can be found on the SavageShooters web site.

 

[Doggitter]

Some very good thoughts from you two. The goal here is to work my abilities to be effective at 1000 yard at a minimum, and on out as far as I can, really. If I feel good enough about it possibly get back to match shooting to be another also-ran. Realistically, how many yards is the standard .243 good for? Besides this guns accuracy, that's my biggest concern in using it.
Shooting in conditions the .223 is just lighter than I feel good about, so to be confident I'd have to change up several calibers. I've never done good with it at 200yd let alone farther. That means a barrel and bolt head to get my head in the game. With the trigger manufactured as seriously crooked as it was it's in the same nagging game. Same with the stock, it's just has to go it's so unsightly. That puts it in the $500-800 build category even scrounging used parts where it's ok. And yes, money is the elephant.
For now I'm thinking stay with factory loads but that isn't set in stone. All my reloading gear needs a going through to see how much was ruined in the damp shop storage, then I'll have to build a loading room to gain some amount of climate control.
I think Deli hit the nail on the head unless something else comes to mind. Thanks, you two.

 

[Delicatessen]

Your max range on the 243 has some unknown variables like barrel length bullet weight etc and are you just talking supersonic range or hunting. You should easily be able to work up a load supersonic with a higher BC bullet and longer barrel beyond 1200 yards likely 1400. I would look at your plans get an idea of what bullet you want to shoot and see load data fps ranges and bc...then go plug into an online ballistic calc to see rough range where it falls into transonic ~1200-1300 fps

 

[CharlieNC]

Dog there are a couple of factors you need to consider. If you want to use factory ammo, be sure you can get suitable ammo. For example the 6.5 Creed by Hornady is a known good load and decent price. Then based on what you think you want to shoot, if you are contemplating using an existing barrel be sure it has enough twist to run those heavier high BC bullets.

 

[Doggitter]

I was pretty hesitant to post my about this first post but you 2 have definitely relaxed the tensions. The .243 is a 24" barrel, I'll measure twist this weekend but online info says 9 or 10 twist, so no great BC bullets in it. Mostly wondering supersonic range but plan on hunting with it too, to a point.
So I'm leaning towards finding where the Ruger stands for accuracy, if it's usable then go ahead with it for what I can. Lots of learning can be done even if I'm getting half the accuracy I'd like. After a while I can make a decision on if improvements to it are feasible or rebuild the Savage. I'd love to start with a better chassis but I don't really see that happening.

 

[CharlieNC]

Shoot first and have fun. You will learn more about what you want and need.

 

[moosemeat]

I had a ruger 243 varmint after the switch to brushed barrels and that rifle would flat out shoot. Unfortunately i had it before i was into long range and sold it.
Anyway 243 is a hell of a LR cartridge but you would have to hand load for it to take advantage of the bullets out there. Shoot tge rifle and see how it groups. Make a decision after.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Midway sells the Choate Tactical Rifle Stock Savage 110 Long Action Staggered Feed Composite Black with 5.062" action bolt spacing. After skimming the reviews to see if this stock will work with the older long actions, I got the impression it just might. I own a slightly different version of this stock and mounted it on a current model short action/detachable magazine model 11VT I have. It's a very nice product featuring an aluminum bedding block. As I have another 11VT, a second of my version is in the works.

Chambering will always be a broad question, with lots of suggestion based on other folks' favorite ones. It's all good. My view, for way out there, bring enough gun.

The .30-'06 family of cases will be ideal for the Savage action you already have. The case base diameter will change, so you'll need a Replacement Bolt Head with a .473" diameter face. Since you're favoring factory ammunition for now, I suggest the .30-'06 itself with the Hornady Precision Hunter load featuring the 178gr ELD.X bullet, which has the trajectory and accuracy of the LR Match cartridge, but also features hunting-appropriate terminal performance. If you get into handloading, consider a barrel replacement with the .280 Remington chambering (it's essentially a 7mm-'06). It should be match capable out to maybe even 1400yd given a barrel of at least a 26" length, with improved ballistics over the .30, but comparable or lighter recoil. The .280 ammunition I linked uses the 150gr ELD-X which is quite good, but I'd prefer a handload with the 175gr ELD-X.

Lothar-Walther USA makes drop-in replacement Savage barrels, but the in-stock versions are all chambered for short action cartridges. I had mine made up custom, and eventually its spec ended up being identical to the .260 drop-in when they became available. Maybe the same process could work for the .280 Rem. Alternatively, they do offer the .284 Win, which is not a bad alternative.

A barrel switch requires tools; a barrel nut wrench; a Vise is needed along with either Vise Jaw Pads or Barrel Blocks.

Triggers are a big issue for the older Savages. My custom comp rifle is built on a Pre-Accu-Trigger Savage 10FP action, and uses the Sharpshooter Supply Replacement Trigger. I don't see it listed at Midway, but they do sell a Timney for the earlier actions.

I don't favor 50mm (or larger) scope objective lenses because they jack the optical axis higher, requiring taller cheek support. The extra objective diameter is valuable in dim light, but the standard 40-44mm objectives work well in normal daylight, and keep the optical axis lower. I like the Mueller 8-32x44mm Target Scope, EGW 20MOA Base, and Vortex 6-Screw Rings, you'll need two of these.

I took some care to get this stuff right for your older long action; it's not a simple task, and I did my best but may not have gotten everything exactly right These are all (except for the Timney trigger) items I have owned (several of them multiple copies) for years and trust enough to recommend to others. The prices are cheaper, but the products perform very well over time for me, and should for you, too.

I simpler approach would be to buy the Savage 11VT as a .308, get a Lothar-Walther drop-in barrel (I suggest .260, but that would mean handloading) and swap it, keeping the .308 barrel in case you want to shoot in a .308-only class competition. The optics I mentioned would be the next upgrade.

My first 11VT is the .223. I shot it in the latest SW LR Nationals at 600yd this past Spring in F T/R. With the above optics and a Harris Bipod, it is a decent beginners F T/R competitive rifle at SR and MR distances. At current prices, the 11VT is affordable enough to own a 223, a .308, and another rebarreled in .260. I'm 2/3 of the way there myself.

Greg

 

[IanHusaberg]

Just get an MRAD

Truer words have never been spoken!

 

[Doggitter]

Just get an MRAD

"Money is a major factor."