Help me with my new ar308!

[jaycoux]

Hello all-

I'm new to the ar308 platform and have been having some difficulties with consistency when shooting it.

Some background: Rifle is a Larue OBR with a 20" barrel, Surefire brake, PRS stock and Nightforce 3.5-15 FFP scope. I have been shooting my reloads as well as FGMM 175's. Reloads have been with weight sorted LC '05 brass, neck turned and annealed. Components include CCI BR-2 primers, IMR 4895, 4064, Varget or RE-15 with SMK 175's.

My targets have usually been of a similar pattern. Usually 3 shots in a bughole and 2 more shots-sometimes low, somteimes high- also bugholed together but usually off by 1 inch from the other group. It is not always a first shot/last shot phenomenon.

I read a thread on this site about the difference between gas guns and bolt guns. Clearly, I was not following some of the recommendations and learned quite a bit about recoil impulses and proper follow through. Only problem is, that has not translated to acceptable results on the range so far. My groups have tightened up slightly, but still exhibit the same type of pattern.

I know this rifle is capable of more. It has to be me. I am shooting off a caldwell dead shot and a sand bag in the rear. The range I use is set up in a way that makes shooting off a bipod virtually impossible. Does anybody have any thoughts on this matter??

thank in advance,
j

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

What range are you shooting that you can't use a bipod?

 

[jaycoux]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

The targets downrange are too low. Guess I could shoot off the bipod but I would have to use 2 sandbags on the stock and it would be an uncomfortable way to shoot. Does it matter one way or the other. My rifle is kicking off to the left so maybe it does. Maybe I need to hold it tighter?

j

 

[Brasscow]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

If your rifle is kicking off to the left then your NPOA is off slightly. It should come straight back after shooting with proper follow though.

Are you shooting prone or from the bench?
If prone, try getting straight back behind the rifle.

BTW the online training that is offered here is worth the money.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

Are you single loading or shooting from the magazine. Two grouping can be a result of seating depth inconsistancies. If you are cycling from a mag using cartridges with freshly annealed necks, your bullets may be moving around in the neck under recoil. Seating depth can vary pressures and barrel time, try a little more neck tention and see if that helps things.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjaycoux</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello all-

I'm new to the ar308 platform and have been having some difficulties with consistency when shooting it.

Some background: Rifle is a Larue OBR with a 20" barrel, Surefire brake, PRS stock and Nightforce 3.5-15 FFP scope. I have been shooting my reloads as well as FGMM 175's. Reloads have been with weight sorted LC '05 brass, neck turned and annealed. Components include CCI BR-2 primers, IMR 4895, 4064, Varget or RE-15 with SMK 175's.

My targets have usually been of a similar pattern. Usually 3 shots in a bughole and 2 more shots-sometimes low, somteimes high- also bugholed together but usually off by 1 inch from the other group. It is not always a first shot/last shot phenomenon.

I read a thread on this site about the difference between gas guns and bolt guns. Clearly, I was not following some of the recommendations and learned quite a bit about recoil impulses and proper follow through. Only problem is, that has not translated to acceptable results on the range so far. My groups have tightened up slightly, but still exhibit the same type of pattern.

I know this rifle is capable of more. It has to be me. I am shooting off a caldwell dead shot and a sand bag in the rear. The range I use is set up in a way that makes shooting off a bipod virtually impossible. Does anybody have any thoughts on this matter??

thank in advance,
j</div></div>

Your issue may be mostly about perspective of aim inconsistency. The relationship between your eyeball and the eyepiece is not perfectly consistent to minimize parallax error. I'd suggest you single load and rebuild the position for every shot. I'd also suggest you get rid of the Caldwell apparatus, remember a zero is about your relationship with the rifle and ground. Call your shots and plot them, as well as the strikes. Look for call and strike corollaries.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

Good catch SS, I forgot about parallax

 

[jaycoux]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

Brasscow-I am shooting from a bench. I am contemplating the training. I appreciate the reccomendation

LR-WSM-I am shooting from the magazine. I have had this problem with factory FGGM and reloads. Not sure if seating depth changes are a problem but I'll single load for kicks and see what happens.

Sterling shooter-Caldwell is gone. Until I can find a place in Austin to shoot prone I'll be stuck with this predicament. Your take on parallax is an interesting one and it is something I have considered. Correct me if I am wrong here but if my reticle isn't moving when I move and I am at only 100 yards AND I have parallax adjusted on my scope then my real problem may be position inconsistencies.

All-Thanks for your insightful observations. I'll take whatever I can get. This has been a humbling experience thus far. I'm not sure this is worth the time, but conversely....it's showing me things I was never aware of with my bolt action rifles.

j

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

You essentially have a gross perspective of aim change. This means you've got a good understanding of alignment; yet, inconsistency, from parallax, trigger control and/or position is obviously causing bullet displacement from desired point of aim. One thing you described was your cheekweld. You must rest the full weight of your head on the stock for best results. Also, you must recall and recreate the relationship between yourself, gun, and ground for every shot. Elbows, non-firing hand, butt-to-shoulder, stockweld, and grip must be consistent to a molecular level. Any change in body position will allow for divergence in recoil which will effectively displace bullets. Muscular relaxation will help you understand when the position has been perfected to assure recoil does not become unpredictable.

 

[hopps]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The targets downrange are too low. Guess I could shoot off the bipod but I would have to use 2 sandbags on the stock and it would be an uncomfortable way to shoot. Does it matter one way or the other. My rifle is kicking off to the left so maybe it does. Maybe I need to hold it tighter?
</div></div>

? I presume you have a 9''to 12'' harris or something?

Dig holes in the ground for the legs, get your rifle as close to the ground as you can...

it makes 20 round mags harder to change but if you get the arching of your back just right (ask your wife/girlfriend to demonstrate) you can maintain the majority of your shooting position.

I think most people just use 10's when shooting prone though...

 

[jaycoux]

Re: Help me with my new ar308!

I do have a harris and would love to use it, but the range only allows firing from the bench. I am unaware of any ranges in the Austin area that will allow you to shoot prone. I am going to have to find a new range in the near future but for now, I only have one option.

j