help pick 6.8 upper

[NY700]

Ok guys so Im brand new to the 6.8 world. Ive looked at the 6.5 and also the 50 wulf and i think im gonna go 6.8. Im lookin gfor an upper to complement my 24" varmint upper. My hope is to pick up a basic upper for 11 months of occasional shooting at the range and hunting whitetail in michigan so heavy brush inside 200yds. Ive been looking at two uppers i found for sale. One is a Stag Arms Model 7 hunter brand new for $550 the other is a RRA A4 Car upper with flip up front site on gas bloack and a YHM flip up rear sight 16" also $550.
What are your thoughts. For strictly hunting the 20" barrel on the stag may be nice. But I calso like the idea of the 16" on the RRA for ease of carrying in the field, packing and home defense. Both are SpecII chambers the RRA is 1-10 twist on the 16" and the Stag is 1-11 twist on the 20"
$550 is as much as i could possibly spend right now and guidance much appreciated. my other thought was to forget the 6.8 upper and go for an AK variant. Big thing is im looking for a larger caliber rifle that will just be fun at the range and for two weeks a year i can take into the field.

 

[dareposte]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

I'd say go for the 16" barrel, with the cartridge powder limitations there's really not much reason to go for a 20".

At one time I had built a 20" and a 16" 6.8spc, but found that I was overall disappointed with the round's ballistics. I sold the 20" and kept the 16" with a Primary Arms red-dot on it for hunting in the brush instead of my 30-30.

If you want some brass for it PM me and I can hook you up, I bought 1k cases when they were hard to find and I thought I'd like it but now I barely shoot it and the cases last forever.

 

[TXTransplant]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

Slightly off topic but have you guys either considering the 6.8 or who own a 6.8 heard when either the Silver State 6.8 plinking ammo will come out or something similar by Wolf?

Love to get a 6.8 but if I can't practice with it cheaply its hard to justify.

 

[NY700]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

I appreciate the input. i guess the big question then falls on the twist rate. Ive read a bunch over at 68forums and like most things it all depends on what you want to do with it and those guys are obviously truly vested in the caliber and are trying to ring it for everything its worth. I like DAREPOSTE mentioned am just trying to replace 30-30 ballistics well inside 200 yds. The Stag upper like most stag stuff seems to get great reviews in the magazines but otherwise seems forgotten about. Im just not sure if I want the weight of a rather heavy barreled upper for stalking. and the RRA upper is coming with $160 worth of extras with the flip up sights and will be much more portable I just dont want to loose too much in the way of accuracy and the the guys who seem to know are really against the 1-10 twist barrels.

 

[dareposte]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

Mine were both 1-9.5" twists, which seemed about right to me. I got decent accuracy out of both of them just didn't like the longish range energy numbers enough to keep shooting them.

 

[bustin]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine were both 1-9.5" twists, which seemed about right to me. I got decent accuracy out of both of them just didn't like the longish range energy numbers enough to keep shooting them. </div></div>
That was your problem(9.5 twist and a SAAMI chamber from Model 1 sales or Kotonics early barrels), that ammo was probably doing 2400-2450fps,
We can get 110gr bullets up to 2800 from a 11.25 twist 16" barrel. Factory SSA and Hornady is doing 2600fps now and could be faster if all of the bad spec barrels weren't still on the market.
A 12 twist will stabilize any bullet that can be shot from a 6.8 mag.

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine were both 1-9.5" twists, which seemed about right to me. I got decent accuracy out of both of them just didn't like the longish range energy numbers enough to keep shooting them. </div></div>
That was your problem(9.5 twist and a SAAMI chamber from Model 1 sales or Kotonics early barrels), that ammo was probably doing 2400-2450fps,
We can get 110gr bullets up to 2800 from a 11.25 twist 16" barrel. Factory SSA and Hornady is doing 2600fps now and could be faster if all of the bad spec barrels weren't still on the market.
A 12 twist will stabilize any bullet that can be shot from a 6.8 mag. </div></div>

You constantly overexagerate things. You can get 2600 FPS out of a 1:10"/SAAMI Twist and be under 55k PSI. And on top of that,your 2800 FPS, even in your barrels, are close to or over 60k PSI. Anyone that reads your posts is going to think that going from a 1:9.5"/SAAMI to a 1:11.25"/whatever chamber you are using to day, is going to get a 400 FPS increase, which is nit even close if you keep things equal.

 

[dareposte]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

My conclusion was that the 6.8 case just doesn't have enough capacity to safely get the ballistics I wanted. I'm not a fan of hotrodding handloads and if I want more than what I'm getting safely I'll just go to a bigger round.

I haven't tried the slower twist barrels but based on my experiences loading for a 1:10, 1:12, and 1:14 .30 cals I would be very very surprised to see the difference you're talking about just by going from a 1:9 to a 1:12 twist barrel.

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My conclusion was that the 6.8 case just doesn't have enough capacity to safely get the ballistics I wanted. I'm not a fan of hotrodding handloads and if I want more than what I'm getting safely I'll just go to a bigger round.

I haven't tried the slower twist barrels but based on my experiences loading for a 1:10, 1:12, and 1:14 .30 cals I would be very very surprised to see the difference you're talking about just by going from a 1:9 to a 1:12 twist barrel. </div></div>

For the 6.8, going from the SAAMI to the SPCII chamber is the most important, followed by the land/groove ratio.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

I have a 1:10 twist LWRC and a 1:11 twist Pac Nor barrel built by AR Performance. Besides me going crazy trying to get 110 VMAX to shoot well, I have not found a lot of difference in the two twist rates. I shoot 110 Nosler Accubonds, 110 and 95 GR Barnes TTSX, SSA TNT's and SSA 110 Sierra Pro Hunter and they seem to be very equal in regards to accuracy. They are 1 - 1.5 MOA depending on me.

 

[bustin]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine were both 1-9.5" twists, which seemed about right to me. I got decent accuracy out of both of them just didn't like the longish range energy numbers enough to keep shooting them. </div></div>
That was your problem(9.5 twist and a SAAMI chamber from Model 1 sales or Kotonics early barrels), that ammo was probably doing 2400-2450fps,
We can get 110gr bullets up to 2800 from a 11.25 twist 16" barrel. Factory SSA and Hornady is doing 2600fps now and could be faster if all of the bad spec barrels weren't still on the market.
A 12 twist will stabilize any bullet that can be shot from a 6.8 mag. </div></div>

You constantly overexagerate things. You can get 2600 FPS out of a 1:10"/SAAMI Twist and be under 55k PSI. And on top of that,your 2800 FPS, even in your barrels, are close to or over 60k PSI. Anyone that reads your posts is going to think that going from a 1:9.5"/SAAMI to a 1:11.25"/whatever chamber you are using to day, is going to get a 400 FPS increase, which is nit even close if you keep things equal.</div></div>
In 2005 we were flattening primers at 2450fps with the 9.5 twist Saami chambered Model 1 barrels, did you have a model 1 barrel in 2005 shooting Hornady ammo? I can get over 2800fps without flattening primers now. What changed from then till now and who said anything about keeping anything the same? Everything about the barrels chambers ammo and powder has changed since 2005. It is the performance level that has changed.

 

[bustin]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My conclusion was that the 6.8 case just doesn't have enough capacity to safely get the ballistics I wanted. I'm not a fan of hotrodding handloads and if I want more than what I'm getting safely I'll just go to a bigger round.

I haven't tried the slower twist barrels but based on my experiences loading for a 1:10, 1:12, and 1:14 .30 cals I would be very very surprised to see the difference you're talking about just by going from a 1:9 to a 1:12 twist barrel. </div></div>
It isn't just the twist, most 10 twist barrels on the market have 6 grooves and a land-groove ratio of 40:60 some have SAAMi chambers some don't. Most of the 11-12 twist barrels have better chambers and thinner lands along with 3-4 or 5R rifling so all of it together adds up to better performance.

 

[KYS]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

I've got a SBR in 6.8 it was built up by Noveske as a complete upper, but a limited run. Its a little hammer! I took it out early one morning and shot a coyote that was harassing our cattle. It was only about an 80 yard shot but with an eotech and magnifier it's cake hitting out to 100

 

[bustin]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1:10 twist LWRC and a 1:11 twist Pac Nor barrel built by AR Performance. Besides me going crazy trying to get 110 VMAX to shoot well, I have not found a lot of difference in the two twist rates. I shoot 110 Nosler Accubonds, 110 and 95 GR Barnes TTSX, SSA TNT's and SSA 110 Sierra Pro Hunter and they seem to be very equal in regards to accuracy. They are 1 - 1.5 MOA depending on me. </div></div>
From what you posted over on 68 forums you are still working up loads and no where near max.
The Vmax is not a good bullet for the 68, Hornady 110 OTMs and Sierra 110gr Prohunters are the easiest to get to shoot well, the 90gr TNTs also shoot well. If shooting paper there is no reason to run warm loads, that is the good thing about loading your own, you get to decide how fast is fast enough.

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine were both 1-9.5" twists, which seemed about right to me. I got decent accuracy out of both of them just didn't like the longish range energy numbers enough to keep shooting them. </div></div>
That was your problem(9.5 twist and a SAAMI chamber from Model 1 sales or Kotonics early barrels), that ammo was probably doing 2400-2450fps,
We can get 110gr bullets up to 2800 from a 11.25 twist 16" barrel. Factory SSA and Hornady is doing 2600fps now and could be faster if all of the bad spec barrels weren't still on the market.
A 12 twist will stabilize any bullet that can be shot from a 6.8 mag. </div></div>

You constantly overexagerate things. You can get 2600 FPS out of a 1:10"/SAAMI Twist and be under 55k PSI. And on top of that,your 2800 FPS, even in your barrels, are close to or over 60k PSI. Anyone that reads your posts is going to think that going from a 1:9.5"/SAAMI to a 1:11.25"/whatever chamber you are using to day, is going to get a 400 FPS increase, which is nit even close if you keep things equal.</div></div>
In 2005 we were flattening primers at 2450fps with the 9.5 twist Saami chambered Model 1 barrels, did you have a model 1 barrel in 2005 shooting Hornady ammo? I can get over 2800fps without flattening primers now. What changed from then till now and who said anything about keeping anything the same? Everything about the barrels chambers ammo and powder has changed since 2005. It is the performance level that has changed. </div></div>

I was able to load 29 GR of H322 with the Hornady 110 GR bullets and get 2600 FPS from my very first 6.8 SPC, which had the SAAMI Chamber. I know several people with the 1:9.5" barrels who were shooting the same load with no problem.

Yes, the performance has changed, but not by 400 FPS. SSA has done some testing and from a SAAMI 1:10" to one of your barrels, and the difference was 103 FPS, although Art said he could have pushed it to 150 FPS. Still impressive, but let's not exagerate things. I know it is marketing, but get real.

 

[bustin]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

"that ammo was probably doing 2400-2450fps,
We can get 110gr bullets up to 2800 from a 11.25 twist 16" barrel. Factory SSA and Hornady is doing 2600fps now and could be faster if all of the bad spec barrels weren't still on the market."
What part of that don't you understand? The factory Hornady ammo before they changed powder was shooting around 2400-2450,
Now it is close to 2600 and over in some barrels.
HTR and Adam were standing on the porch at HTR ranch watching the chrono when we shot the 85gr Barnes to 3170fps out of a 16" and several have shot the 110s around 2800 with H335 or 10X. You never tried to load above the book but just because you didn't try it doesn't mean others aren't doing it.
I know you don't get the velocity/terminal performance thing because you don't hunt,you're punching paper and velocity doesn't matter but to go around bad mouthing the 6.8 just to get back a me is petty just like trying to blame me for the chambering problems because SSA's ammo was out of spec last year but, everyone else saw right through that.

ETA- Btw I sent SSA a pressure test barrel made with my 5R rifling button, the whole deal cost me close to $1000 because they broke the button off in the last 2" of the barrel. I just talked to Art about month ago and he has never finished drilling the test barrel so the pressure equipt could be attached so how did he tell you my barrel was only good for another 103-150fps if he has never fired it?

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: help pick 6.8 upper

Get real. I never went over max? I just don't go around posting loads that are over 60K, which is irresponsible for anyone, especially a manufacturer. And that is 60 K from your barrel, imagine what those loads are in a lesser barrel.

Art said he used one of your 1:12" barrels. He posted it on his website for a while and HTR gave me the same numbers, so if that isn't correct, then get with Art and HTR.

And no, I'm not badmouthing the 6.8. It is a great round, even in the lower spec barrels. YOu are the pne that constantly trashed everything else and make your shit sound like it is 400 FPS better than the others, which it isn't.