Sidearms & Scatterguns Help pick my next PCC!

[nick112288]

Well not a true PCC, one of the braced handguns.

I can't decide between Scorpion, Vector, CMMG Guard, or MPX 8"

I have no Glocks, so Glock mag compatibility isn't a deciding factor. In fact only gun I'm considering that takes glock mags is the Vector. If I get a Guard I'll get the Colt mag version because I think Glock mag ar's look funny. Gun will primarily be run suppressed once I get a subgun can.

Scorpion price draws me, Vector looks and rarity draws me, I've read the Guard design acts very similiar to MP5, couldn't tell you what about the Sig it is but the 8" MPX just looks badass. 4" model I have no interest in.

I'm finding Vector and MPX around 1300 to 1400, other 2 cheaper.

I'd LOVE a MP5 but for the cost of one I can get one of the others and a subgun can.

Want it to reliably feed hollow points and fairly quiet with a can.

 

[SharpsNitro]

I have the Scorpion in SBR trim with the Magpul Zhukov stock and the barrel trimmed to 5.5”. It’s a fantastic gun with more aftermarket support popping up all the time. With a couple of new triggers and the MagPul mags it’s really hard to beat.

The Vector is one I am curious about, I’m thinking of one in .45 or 10mm to SBR in the near future for the shop. The new magazine extensions they just came out with make it very attractive.

I wouldn’t touch a Sig even though I recently bought an M17.

 

[Broncovan]

Something like this?

This is a 45, I also have a 9, both Glock fed. I haven't had any issues whatsoever with either and would go with a glock lower again.

 

[smokin.338]

Scorpion hands down... built like a Tank, chews everything it's fed, and price ! Hell Magpul is even on board w/ support !!

 

[acudaowner]

that is sweet lookin .

 

[powdahound76]

Look for 2A s posts on building a PCC AR that uses Magpul Pmags.
There is a new thing called the Endomag insert he has been using on this.
Looks cool and he has been having great reliability with them.

Then you build a 9mm pistol AR however you like. And muscle memory is same for reloads (if you already shoot an AR i guess. I just assume we all do......?)

Thats my plan one of these days. Working on other things currently.

 

[m6z]

The Scorpion is very bulky and the blowback 9mm AR rifles are a joke in terms of reliability. The Vectors are not much better.

The CMMG Guard is a good choice if you have to have glock mags, but since you don't I'd be looking at the MPX or one of the PTR MP5 clones. Personally I'm holding out on the PSA MP5 clones.

 

[Baron85]

My quarter circle 10 AR9 with 5” barrel runs like a top! 115gn, and 147 subs. Both suppressed and non suppressed.

 

[kill_zone67]

I have been really happy with my MPX. Only downside is the price of the mags vs the others.

 

[Huskydriver]

My quarter circle 10 AR9 with 5” barrel runs like a top! 115gn, and 147 subs. Both suppressed and non suppressed.

Lrbho? Colt mags or Glock? I haven't been impressed with my scorpion. Jams like crazy shooting subs. I'm on my second one and both have been like this.

 

[powdahound76]

@2ndamendfan

Can you weigh in on your AR PCC for these fellas?

 

[mgrs]

While glock mags may not be requirement, you'll find that they are cheaper and easier to load than colt-pattern magazines. As a bonus, you can also use just about any double-stack pistol magazine loader as opposed to buying a colt loader if you shoot in any volume.

Also consider either buying a complete rifle or assembling a complete upper on a lower from the same manufacturer.

Foxtrot Mike's FM9 runs well, is well-featured, and very inexpensive. LRBHO works and the forward charging handle is very nice to have on a blowback PCC. I had much better results with it than tinkering with various colt-pattern parts and magazine blocks in regular lowers.

I wouldn't rule an MP5 clone out just yet... much nicer to shoot with a huge difference in recoil impulse although the ergos leave some to be desired:

 

[2ndamendfan]

@2ndamendfan

Can you weigh in on your AR PCC for these fellas?

thanks and yes, I should be done with work in a couple hours. You know how I can ramble on and on.

 

[powdahound76]

Ha!

I consider that giving great details. Better than the “Trust me, works great”. Or “Its what the top guys are using”.

Its also how I justify being long-winded...... ?

Thanks for helping these boys out.

 

[BravoSector1]

B&T "Grasshopper Mouse" GHM9

Buy once cry once. Absolutely phenomenal and they are popping up in the used market.

 

[Baron85]

Lrbho? Colt mags or Glock? I haven't been impressed with my scorpion. Jams like crazy shooting subs. I'm on my second one and both have been like this.

My quarter circle 10 does not have last round hold open. And it’s glock mags. It’s the top one in the picture.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Here is what @powdahound76 was referring to. I need to take a few photos of what i built and the final outcome but it is awesome in my opinon. This should keep you occupied while I work on photos and another write up (in between Friday night family fun night).

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/endomag-review.6908307/

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...s-not-thought-of-before.6894718/#post-7278792






last video is very important I think, as it would appear 9mm bolts are not made to the same tolerances.

 

[nick112288]

I know the scorpion is good but once I factor in the brace it's the same price as the 8" Guard/Banshee and as I understand the Guard is a much better shooter/suppressor host.

Even with the PTR I can't justify the MP5 price. I can get a Scorpion or Guard and suppressor for the same price as just the MP5.

MPX scares me because I just noticed the other day the Only MPX Sig now lists is that ugly Copperhead and Competition rifle

I know they're good but honestly nothing from B&T interests me.

I think it's simply going to boil down to the Scorpion looking better or the Guard suppressing better

 

[2ndamendfan]

have you been here? https://forums.brianenos.com/
I learned a lot over there.
So hear is my story, I will probably repeat myself from the couple of threads I link to above.
I first built my daughter a 9mm AR for her 16th birthday, colt style and it is flawless. The good is she can remove the adapter block and the upper and she has a milspec lower she can then run anything from 5.7x28, 223/556 up to 50 beowulf. That is the nice thing about an AR15 lower the modularity is amazing. The only bad thing for me is that with the mag inserted it is ugly as fuck. Functional but ugly.
It is a blast to shoot, so I wanted one.
This was right about the time 9mm AR's started to become a "thing". When I built hers all the info was colt conversion info. 6 months later Glock lowers started to appear. Even though I never have owned a Glock, I liked that idea for two reasons. Mags are easier to find, and in case I ever did get a Glock it could share mags with it. I failed to see a couple of down falls with that idea.
The biggest is that you loose a lot of your AR15 modularity. The only thing it can be converted to is a 40 cal (357 sig I assume also) Glock PCC.
I SBR-ed it. It had some growing pains, worst of which were feeding hollow points (feeds fine now) and breaking BHO, current one is a Seekins that has been in there for a long time (did you know it is a MIM part?)
It is fun, but still ugly.

BUT

Then came the Endomag last year. Think about it, no conversion block. Keeps all the AR15 modularity. AND it looks like an AR15, training is the same, mag pouches the same, muscle memory is the same. The only negative anyone can find and @hermosabeach mentioned it first in one of the other threads above, is the possibility of getting the 9mm mag confused with a regular mag or vice-versa. My fix for that is color coded mags, same as I have done for my 300BO.

I went with a Aero Precision lower. a FoxTrot Mike side charging upper (because of reviews and in this case the side charger is going to be very handy)
https://fm-products.com/
The Endomag has one thing that is different. The ejector is built into the Mag adapter, so if you eject the mag and then try to unload, the cartridge in the chamber will stay under the extractor and just go right back into the chamber.
The correct unload/clear procedure would be. Pull bolt back, round in chamber ejects, while holding CH back eject magazine. This takes a little training and may turn someone off. If the Mag runs dry the bolt does hold open. This is where the side charger comes in very handy. Pull charing handle back, use other hand to manually activate the BHO, eject magazine, visually verify clear. If range required insert chamber flag. This is all easier I feel with the side charger. Also because it is my only side charger, muscle memory is building to make this become habit.

I tried a couple buffers and springs in my Glock SBR and finally settled on this.
https://taccom3g.com/product/taccom-pcc-adjustable-buffer-system/

So I used it in my Endomag build also. Works very well.

Originally I took the upper off my glock and put it on my NFA- SBR registered mil-spec lower, I did this to test the Endomag before I built a complete gun. I put lots rounds through it (number is in threads posted above, over 1000 in 3 outings I believe). It worked great except for when I put slight up pressure on the mag, the bolt would hit the ejector. This is where the last Mean arms video comes in. Not all bolts are cut to the same specs.

I just put the gun together at Christmas and have about 300 rds (100 rds of various hollow points) through it. It is flawless, with no malfunctions at all. No mag "break in" needed at all.

The only issue with a complete gun from CMMG is that the lower is glock mag only.

You can buy just and upper and use the Endomag or this https://getstern.com/products/magazine-adapters/
They are supposed to run really well. Either of those two allow you to use a standard lower which leaves your options open.

I have the stencils made for 9mm, I just need to prep the mags and paint them, along with doing the mag base plates blue also.

I do have a suppressor I run on the Glock SBR, I will have to see about shorter hand guard from Foxtrot mike to run it on the new gun. Over all I love it, the mechanics of operation are just natural if you shoot a AR15 at all.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Both of mine are 10.5 inch barrels, I may try a 8 inch next.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

Look up the B&T APC45. If I had the cash, I'd get one myself.

 

[shaun1826]

If your looking for quite with a can and low recoil, a Sig MPX is hard to beat. The way it’s designed makes it inherently quiter and lower recoil compared to a standard blow back design.

 

[schlaiek]

have you considered a B&T TP9?
it's not the best gun I own, nor the cheapest, but it is the most fun.
expensive, check. pita to clean, check. pricy mags, check. terrible irons, you bet.
but damn is it fun...
99.9% reliable, I have a mag with a bad follower that I replaced...

mine is a SBR with a MRO and looks pretty much like the attachment.

 

[nick112288]

have you considered a B&T TP9?
it's not the best gun I own, nor the cheapest, but it is the most fun.
expensive, check. pita to clean, check. pricy mags, check. terrible irons, you bet.
but damn is it fun...
99.9% reliable, I have a mag with a bad follower that I replaced...

mine is a SBR with a MRO and looks pretty much like the attachment.

I want to be able to suppress but refuse to pay the ridiculous price for the B&T TP9 specific suppressor

 

[schlaiek]

fair point. supposedly the B&T suppressor for the TP9 can be run on other 9mm carbines, but they are pricey and probably not a universal as other/newer options on that market.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Something like this?
View attachment 7020241
This is a 45, I also have a 9, both Glock fed. I haven't had any issues whatsoever with either and would go with a glock lower again.

That looks like about 4 ways of all fucked up.

It's like a dog trying to be a cat.


It's the kaityln jenner of firearms.