I have decided upon ordering a GAP rifle in the next couple of months (pending funds-selling several pistol's that are safe queens). Here is my question. For a starter long range precision rifle, would I be better served with the Crusader in 308 or should I go with something with better range and ballistics like the 300 WM? I am a hunter that owns just about every calliber for hunting just about every type of game in the world. But this gun will not be for hunting. It will be for shooting 500 to 600 yards on my family's ranch and eventually further. I plan to start reloading to make the most accurate bullets possible for the rifle. I am a bit of an extremist when it comes to my hobbies and do not want to end up wishing I had went with a 300 after getting into this. If I were to order a 300 would it make sense to upgrade to a surgeon action? Would it be worth the upgrade on the 308? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to do this right the first time. Thanks for your feedback.
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Re: Help picking caliber
I would go with the 308 reason being longer barrel life than a 300 win mag and banging steel at 600yds with a 308 is fun. It wouldnt be much of a challenge for the 300wm.
I would go with the 308 reason being longer barrel life than a 300 win mag and banging steel at 600yds with a 308 is fun. It wouldnt be much of a challenge for the 300wm.
Re: Help picking caliber
When you handload the 300WM can match the performance of the 308Win...sort of wrong way to go about it but then you keep the barrel life there and can load it to the chamfer if you want and pound some shit.
Go with the 300WM if you want to go further, easier...308Win works great but the 300WM isn't that bad to shoot in a heavy rifle and when/if you want to play with the 240gr SMK's....you have the case capacity.
I love my 300WM....wrong word choice there..."not a challange" might not be the world's hardest shot but when you are getting your ass kicked at 1000 yards because of the cross-valley wind...a nice "confidence building" 600 yard shot helps get your head back in the game...meantally at least!!
When you handload the 300WM can match the performance of the 308Win...sort of wrong way to go about it but then you keep the barrel life there and can load it to the chamfer if you want and pound some shit.
Go with the 300WM if you want to go further, easier...308Win works great but the 300WM isn't that bad to shoot in a heavy rifle and when/if you want to play with the 240gr SMK's....you have the case capacity.
I love my 300WM....wrong word choice there..."not a challange" might not be the world's hardest shot but when you are getting your ass kicked at 1000 yards because of the cross-valley wind...a nice "confidence building" 600 yard shot helps get your head back in the game...meantally at least!!
Re: Help picking caliber
You might also think about the 30-06. It keeps the standard LA and non-magnum bolt face, yet I have no issue loading 208 Amax WELL into the 2850+ range, no pressure signs at all. I"m shooting a 26" 1:10 tw barrel so that helps with the velocity. Those rounds are supersonic to 1800yd. Far longer than I can shoot, the 308 won't touch that.
It loads light with everything down to 110Vmax screaming for Varmints up to the 208's that I mentioned. I know MontanaMarine has done some testing with the 240's and he's not THAT much slower than a 300 WM. I get almost 200 fps on his velocities because of barrel length differences, and he's getting 2600 from them.
Brass is cheaper, suprplus ammo and factory ammo is cheaper and more common, if you're reloading it's an enormously flexible round.
Plus, if you want to make a switch barrel out of it, you can always go to something like 243 or 308 or 260, etc and not have a bolt face issue.
You might also think about the 30-06. It keeps the standard LA and non-magnum bolt face, yet I have no issue loading 208 Amax WELL into the 2850+ range, no pressure signs at all. I"m shooting a 26" 1:10 tw barrel so that helps with the velocity. Those rounds are supersonic to 1800yd. Far longer than I can shoot, the 308 won't touch that.
It loads light with everything down to 110Vmax screaming for Varmints up to the 208's that I mentioned. I know MontanaMarine has done some testing with the 240's and he's not THAT much slower than a 300 WM. I get almost 200 fps on his velocities because of barrel length differences, and he's getting 2600 from them.
Brass is cheaper, suprplus ammo and factory ammo is cheaper and more common, if you're reloading it's an enormously flexible round.
Plus, if you want to make a switch barrel out of it, you can always go to something like 243 or 308 or 260, etc and not have a bolt face issue.
Re: Help picking caliber
Good point there too....the 30-06 could be punched to AI in a heart beat if more was desired.
Good point there too....the 30-06 could be punched to AI in a heart beat if more was desired.
Re: Help picking caliber
Thanks for your replys guys. Anybody else have any input? BTW-a friend of mine has been pitching the 30-06. I am sure I will get a "told you so" from him.
Thanks for your replys guys. Anybody else have any input? BTW-a friend of mine has been pitching the 30-06. I am sure I will get a "told you so" from him.
Re: Help picking caliber
Sure the 7mm, 30-06, 300wsm, and 300wm are better or should I just say faster, than the ol'e 308 but thats a lot of BOOM for just kicking around steel on the family ranch.
I would bang out 100 308's before I'd shoot 30 of the magnums. Plus reloading is nearly half the cost. I have a 300wsm and love it for KILL'n shit but damn, wouldn't want to run wide open in a match, unless.......I put my can on it but that changes things all to gether.
For fuck sake screw the barrel burners LOL........
Sure the 7mm, 30-06, 300wsm, and 300wm are better or should I just say faster, than the ol'e 308 but thats a lot of BOOM for just kicking around steel on the family ranch.
I would bang out 100 308's before I'd shoot 30 of the magnums. Plus reloading is nearly half the cost. I have a 300wsm and love it for KILL'n shit but damn, wouldn't want to run wide open in a match, unless.......I put my can on it but that changes things all to gether.
For fuck sake screw the barrel burners LOL........
Re: Help picking caliber
for a "starter" long range. I would go with the .308. The .260, 6.5x47, 7mmWSM will all eat the .308's lunch, but your question is which one to "start" with. You will learn more of the "art" of the game with the .308. All the items that make up external ballistics the .308 will allow you the opportunity to learn. The 500-600 is a "walk" in the park for the .308.
Shoot the barrel out of the .308 and then rechamber it as a .260 or 6.5x47 (or build a switch rifle).
for a "starter" long range. I would go with the .308. The .260, 6.5x47, 7mmWSM will all eat the .308's lunch, but your question is which one to "start" with. You will learn more of the "art" of the game with the .308. All the items that make up external ballistics the .308 will allow you the opportunity to learn. The 500-600 is a "walk" in the park for the .308.
Shoot the barrel out of the .308 and then rechamber it as a .260 or 6.5x47 (or build a switch rifle).
Re: Help picking caliber
The WSM's build heat in a barrel....my 270WSM with a Sendro Contour can only run about 6-10 rounds before a 10 min cool down....you can bang 308 win for hours and get some heat.....a consideration.
The WSM's build heat in a barrel....my 270WSM with a Sendro Contour can only run about 6-10 rounds before a 10 min cool down....you can bang 308 win for hours and get some heat.....a consideration.
Re: Help picking caliber
Get a 6mmbr (Crazy barrel life and Zero kick), very cheap to shoot and a TAC Driver at the ranges you talk about, Varget and 105gr pills. If your not going to sell the rifle use a Rem action and use the extra money and buy a NightForce!
Get a 6mmbr (Crazy barrel life and Zero kick), very cheap to shoot and a TAC Driver at the ranges you talk about, Varget and 105gr pills. If your not going to sell the rifle use a Rem action and use the extra money and buy a NightForce!
Re: Help picking caliber
bohem, what program are you using to get your data from? every place i check a 208gr amax with a velocity of 2850 goes subsonic at 1450 yds i have a weatherby shooting a 210gr faster then yours and i go subsonic at 1600 yds
bohem, what program are you using to get your data from? every place i check a 208gr amax with a velocity of 2850 goes subsonic at 1450 yds i have a weatherby shooting a 210gr faster then yours and i go subsonic at 1600 yds
Re: Help picking caliber
Sir,
I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem.
Once you have the skill to run one of these two calibers. You will know what to get next.
I assume you want this sport to be fun and a challenge. So why pick a caliber that would make it "easy" per-say.
I will own a 300WM or some such caliber. But not until I learn everything I can about the .308win.
by that time, I can run the leg's off a 300WM and the advantage that caliber gives me, I can take advantage of it.
John
Sir,
I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem.
Once you have the skill to run one of these two calibers. You will know what to get next.
I assume you want this sport to be fun and a challenge. So why pick a caliber that would make it "easy" per-say.
I will own a 300WM or some such caliber. But not until I learn everything I can about the .308win.
by that time, I can run the leg's off a 300WM and the advantage that caliber gives me, I can take advantage of it.
John
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem. Once you have the skill to run one of these two calibers. You will know what to get next.</div></div>
Good advice.
If you have to ask what caliber, the answer is always .308.
It's capable of 1000 yard performance, and is the cheapest such caliber to shoot. Guns, factory ammo, and handloading components are available and cheap.
And no one is ever going to regret owning a .308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem. Once you have the skill to run one of these two calibers. You will know what to get next.</div></div>
Good advice.
If you have to ask what caliber, the answer is always .308.
It's capable of 1000 yard performance, and is the cheapest such caliber to shoot. Guns, factory ammo, and handloading components are available and cheap.
And no one is ever going to regret owning a .308.
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackwidow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bohem, what program are you using to get your data from? every place i check a 208gr amax with a velocity of 2850 goes subsonic at 1450 yds i have a weatherby shooting a 210gr faster then yours and i go subsonic at 1600 yds </div></div>
I think that's a typo above, it should be 1700 yards. I'll go fix that.
I got that data from a 65F day, 60% humidity, 1200 ASL via JBM I believe. It should be entering trans-sonic (1400 fps) around 1650 and fully subsonic around 1770 if I recall correctly.
My velocities are averaging 2885 +- 15 fps. The BC I'm using is slightly less aggressive than Hornady published, I find it matches my 600y dope if I use a .617 instead of a .628
Also- To those that suggested the 300 WSM, 7 WSM, 300 Winnie, 6.5 cals, etc.
He's asking for something that's basic to start out on, will give him good experiences and not complicated to learn to load. The 30-06 is the easiest to find good ammo for except for the 308. I feel that the 308 is a crippled round compared to the 30-06 in range an bullet launching ability for essentially the same price in components. Some argue that the 308 is an inherently more accurate caliber, but with modern components and modern rifles (not the 1960's data those claims are based upon) the rounds shoot on top of each other.
A 280 AI would whoop a lot of things, especially with a JLK 180 VLD in it (BC is ~ .73) however that requires making all of your own loads.
The 7mm's eat barrels a lot faster than a 308 or 30-06, and the 6.5's smoke barrels compared to those 2 calibers. Remember, he's asking for an intro round, not a (relatively) short barrel life screamer that shoots in the .3's at 1000yds.
A great intoductory 7mm is the 284 Win. I think you can actually buy that ammo from the factory if you so choose, and there's LOTS of great quality brass for it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackwidow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bohem, what program are you using to get your data from? every place i check a 208gr amax with a velocity of 2850 goes subsonic at 1450 yds i have a weatherby shooting a 210gr faster then yours and i go subsonic at 1600 yds </div></div>
I think that's a typo above, it should be 1700 yards. I'll go fix that.
I got that data from a 65F day, 60% humidity, 1200 ASL via JBM I believe. It should be entering trans-sonic (1400 fps) around 1650 and fully subsonic around 1770 if I recall correctly.
My velocities are averaging 2885 +- 15 fps. The BC I'm using is slightly less aggressive than Hornady published, I find it matches my 600y dope if I use a .617 instead of a .628
Also- To those that suggested the 300 WSM, 7 WSM, 300 Winnie, 6.5 cals, etc.
He's asking for something that's basic to start out on, will give him good experiences and not complicated to learn to load. The 30-06 is the easiest to find good ammo for except for the 308. I feel that the 308 is a crippled round compared to the 30-06 in range an bullet launching ability for essentially the same price in components. Some argue that the 308 is an inherently more accurate caliber, but with modern components and modern rifles (not the 1960's data those claims are based upon) the rounds shoot on top of each other.
A 280 AI would whoop a lot of things, especially with a JLK 180 VLD in it (BC is ~ .73) however that requires making all of your own loads.
The 7mm's eat barrels a lot faster than a 308 or 30-06, and the 6.5's smoke barrels compared to those 2 calibers. Remember, he's asking for an intro round, not a (relatively) short barrel life screamer that shoots in the .3's at 1000yds.
A great intoductory 7mm is the 284 Win. I think you can actually buy that ammo from the factory if you so choose, and there's LOTS of great quality brass for it.
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mirageman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were you I could quit messing around and just get a 50 cal. No problem to 500-600. No problem to 1500-1600......... No problems at all <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">with a BC of #1 What else could you ask for</span></span>? </div></div>
The only question is how deep is your bank account. To get bullets with a BC of 1 or greater, you are looking at about $2 dollars or more per bullet. Assuming that you already have the brass, which run anywhere between $0.50 - $1+ per brass depending on how much prep work you want to do. BTW, did I mention that one pound of any type of powder just doesn't go far when you are using 200 grains per bullet. Well, of course, reloading equipments here and there. But shooting the 50 BMG is fun. I guess it's worth it.
I would stick with either the 308, or even a 223 with a fast twist so you can take advantage of the high BC bullets and reach out to 600 yards or even further. JMHO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mirageman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were you I could quit messing around and just get a 50 cal. No problem to 500-600. No problem to 1500-1600......... No problems at all <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">with a BC of #1 What else could you ask for</span></span>? </div></div>
The only question is how deep is your bank account. To get bullets with a BC of 1 or greater, you are looking at about $2 dollars or more per bullet. Assuming that you already have the brass, which run anywhere between $0.50 - $1+ per brass depending on how much prep work you want to do. BTW, did I mention that one pound of any type of powder just doesn't go far when you are using 200 grains per bullet. Well, of course, reloading equipments here and there. But shooting the 50 BMG is fun. I guess it's worth it.
I would stick with either the 308, or even a 223 with a fast twist so you can take advantage of the high BC bullets and reach out to 600 yards or even further. JMHO
Re: Help picking caliber
Bohem, thanks for the reply. Also, thanks to everyone else for your opinions. I think that I will stick with a 308 to start with. Who knows what is in the future, but, I think that I already have an idea. Thanks again guys!
Bohem, thanks for the reply. Also, thanks to everyone else for your opinions. I think that I will stick with a 308 to start with. Who knows what is in the future, but, I think that I already have an idea. Thanks again guys!
Re: Help picking caliber
I always stick with a caliber that I know I can get accessories for easily and you can't beat 308 for that. You can get bullets, casings, and ammunition at a reasonable price vice some of the exotics. Just buying the rifle is the start of spending money on feeding, caring and maintain. Always pick what has the most accessories at the lowest cost. IMHO
I always stick with a caliber that I know I can get accessories for easily and you can't beat 308 for that. You can get bullets, casings, and ammunition at a reasonable price vice some of the exotics. Just buying the rifle is the start of spending money on feeding, caring and maintain. Always pick what has the most accessories at the lowest cost. IMHO
Re: Help picking caliber
I like the .260 Rem. I handload and make my brass from Win .243 or even 7-08. It's a good compromise on cost and quality.
The .308 is a very good starter, especially from a commercial ammunition variety viewpoint.
The same is true of the .30-'06, with the added advantage of clearly more adequate terminal performance on game.
I would rank the .260 somewhere in between the two for terminal performance, and think that any accuracy differences would be more related to the shooter than the chambering.
For sustained shooting in volume, recoil makes a difference, and the .260 holds an edge here, but the .308 and .30-'06 have some advantage from a bore life viewpoint.
You can have your cake and eat it too. If you get a long action rifle, you can get switch barrel capability with additional barrels, since the three cartridges (and quite a few others) utilize the same .473" bolt face diameter. For simplicity, the Savage tends to make the switch barrel process a lot more user friendly. Just make sure barrel contours match. For the Savage action and L-W barrels, the Savage Varmint contour catalogue number is #5171, and L-W will provide a 28" barrel, fully contoured, chambered, Savage threaded, recess target crowned, and internally honed for somewhere in the vicinity of $300US. Ready to install with no gunsmithing (although getting the Savage factory barrel off the first time can be pretty stressful; I think they use a BIG wrench). The aftermarket has caught up with the Savage so all mod cons are available.
Greg
I like the .260 Rem. I handload and make my brass from Win .243 or even 7-08. It's a good compromise on cost and quality.
The .308 is a very good starter, especially from a commercial ammunition variety viewpoint.
The same is true of the .30-'06, with the added advantage of clearly more adequate terminal performance on game.
I would rank the .260 somewhere in between the two for terminal performance, and think that any accuracy differences would be more related to the shooter than the chambering.
For sustained shooting in volume, recoil makes a difference, and the .260 holds an edge here, but the .308 and .30-'06 have some advantage from a bore life viewpoint.
You can have your cake and eat it too. If you get a long action rifle, you can get switch barrel capability with additional barrels, since the three cartridges (and quite a few others) utilize the same .473" bolt face diameter. For simplicity, the Savage tends to make the switch barrel process a lot more user friendly. Just make sure barrel contours match. For the Savage action and L-W barrels, the Savage Varmint contour catalogue number is #5171, and L-W will provide a 28" barrel, fully contoured, chambered, Savage threaded, recess target crowned, and internally honed for somewhere in the vicinity of $300US. Ready to install with no gunsmithing (although getting the Savage factory barrel off the first time can be pretty stressful; I think they use a BIG wrench). The aftermarket has caught up with the Savage so all mod cons are available.
Greg
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem. </div></div>
+1
If you don't need to hunt with it and its just for target shooting maybe a .22-250 or .243.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would stick with a .308win or even a .223rem. </div></div>
+1
If you don't need to hunt with it and its just for target shooting maybe a .22-250 or .243.
Re: Help picking caliber
The .223 naturally shoots well and if barreled with the right twist heavy bullets as a matter of common practice shoot extremely well at the distances you want with little recoil. Then 22-250 will do that too but 223 might be easier to load for accurately though you probably won't notice the negligble difference, if any. 6.5 caliber rifles are the way. .308 caliber is old school; like buying a black and white T.V., but if you're not going to shoot allot this is all immaterial.
My experience is with 308, 223 and 6.5x47 Lapua and its my choice. Its way better than 308; recoils less, drifts less, drops less, and that goes for 300wm too; 260, 6.5 creedmore and lapua all out-perform 300wm. See e.g.; Zak Smith Shotgun News.
223 barreled right is nice.
The .223 naturally shoots well and if barreled with the right twist heavy bullets as a matter of common practice shoot extremely well at the distances you want with little recoil. Then 22-250 will do that too but 223 might be easier to load for accurately though you probably won't notice the negligble difference, if any. 6.5 caliber rifles are the way. .308 caliber is old school; like buying a black and white T.V., but if you're not going to shoot allot this is all immaterial.
My experience is with 308, 223 and 6.5x47 Lapua and its my choice. Its way better than 308; recoils less, drifts less, drops less, and that goes for 300wm too; 260, 6.5 creedmore and lapua all out-perform 300wm. See e.g.; Zak Smith Shotgun News.
223 barreled right is nice.
Re: Help picking caliber
Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone.
Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone.
Re: Help picking caliber
.308 or .3006. probably the most engineered rounds out there, standing the test of time, probably the most flexible in the type of rounds available for different situations, and just the availability of it in general. if you pick the .3006 you'll already have a long action and stock if you should decide to go to 300 wm, 338, and whatever the flavor of the month is, and can load down the .3006 to .308 ballistics and felt recoil.
eabco.com sells sabots that can be reloaded into a 30 cal case to utilize .22 bullets, "the old .3006 accelarator" trick.
hard to beat the the .308 or .3006 for form, fit, and function.
other wise 25-06 shoots like a lazer.
or for a few bucks, a barret 50 cal. reigns as doing right the first time.
.308 or .3006. probably the most engineered rounds out there, standing the test of time, probably the most flexible in the type of rounds available for different situations, and just the availability of it in general. if you pick the .3006 you'll already have a long action and stock if you should decide to go to 300 wm, 338, and whatever the flavor of the month is, and can load down the .3006 to .308 ballistics and felt recoil.
eabco.com sells sabots that can be reloaded into a 30 cal case to utilize .22 bullets, "the old .3006 accelarator" trick.
hard to beat the the .308 or .3006 for form, fit, and function.
other wise 25-06 shoots like a lazer.
or for a few bucks, a barret 50 cal. reigns as doing right the first time.
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
Does anyone make a factory .243 that has a fast enough twist to stabilize the 105 and up bullets?
thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
Does anyone make a factory .243 that has a fast enough twist to stabilize the 105 and up bullets?
thanks
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
I'd like to add that if you're right about the remington factory sps tube in 1/9.25 won't stabilize the 105s that really sucks for me.
I specifically bought this gun to see if I can actually get to 1k yards. I handload - so that part isn't a problem, but if the gun can't stabilize the hornady 105gr amax what do I shoot?
I traded a nib 700 sps tac in .308 for the sps varmint in .243! Tell me I'm not an idiot... or tell me I am!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
I'd like to add that if you're right about the remington factory sps tube in 1/9.25 won't stabilize the 105s that really sucks for me.
I specifically bought this gun to see if I can actually get to 1k yards. I handload - so that part isn't a problem, but if the gun can't stabilize the hornady 105gr amax what do I shoot?
I traded a nib 700 sps tac in .308 for the sps varmint in .243! Tell me I'm not an idiot... or tell me I am!
Re: Help picking caliber
my sps .243 varmint shoots the 105's just fine. at 600 they will group 1/2 moa if i do my job.
my sps .243 varmint shoots the 105's just fine. at 600 they will group 1/2 moa if i do my job.
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have decided upon ordering a GAP rifle in the next couple of months (pending funds-selling several pistol's that are safe queens). Here is my question. For a starter long range precision rifle, would I be better served with the Crusader in 308 or should I go with something with better range and ballistics like the 300 WM? I am a hunter that owns just about every calliber for hunting just about every type of game in the world. But this gun will not be for hunting. It will be for shooting 500 to 600 yards on my family's ranch and eventually further. I plan to start reloading to make the most accurate bullets possible for the rifle. I am a bit of an extremist when it comes to my hobbies and do not want to end up wishing I had went with a 300 after getting into this. If I were to order a 300 would it make sense to upgrade to a surgeon action? Would it be worth the upgrade on the 308? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to do this right the first time. Thanks for your feedback. </div></div>you should try a german rifle it's A DSR1 and try 338 lap as a cal it's the No 1 rifle in german and british spe ops best of luck http://www.snipershide.com/forum/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have decided upon ordering a GAP rifle in the next couple of months (pending funds-selling several pistol's that are safe queens). Here is my question. For a starter long range precision rifle, would I be better served with the Crusader in 308 or should I go with something with better range and ballistics like the 300 WM? I am a hunter that owns just about every calliber for hunting just about every type of game in the world. But this gun will not be for hunting. It will be for shooting 500 to 600 yards on my family's ranch and eventually further. I plan to start reloading to make the most accurate bullets possible for the rifle. I am a bit of an extremist when it comes to my hobbies and do not want to end up wishing I had went with a 300 after getting into this. If I were to order a 300 would it make sense to upgrade to a surgeon action? Would it be worth the upgrade on the 308? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to do this right the first time. Thanks for your feedback. </div></div>you should try a german rifle it's A DSR1 and try 338 lap as a cal it's the No 1 rifle in german and british spe ops best of luck http://www.snipershide.com/forum/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif
Re: Help picking caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
Does anyone make a factory .243 that has a fast enough twist to stabilize the 105 and up bullets?
thanks </div></div>
My stock Remy stabilizes the 105 grains scenars and AMAX.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem SPS Varmint in .243 has a 1-9.25" twist. The 105s I think call for a faster twist. I feel like I'm pushing my luck using 95gr Bergers. They call for a 1-9"
Not saying they wont shoot well, but they may open up down range.
.243 is a great caliber. Any of the higher BC bullets for it shoot great. I think it outperforms the .308 which is so loved by everyone. </div></div>
Does anyone make a factory .243 that has a fast enough twist to stabilize the 105 and up bullets?
thanks </div></div>
My stock Remy stabilizes the 105 grains scenars and AMAX.
Re: Help picking caliber
Thank you everyone for your comments. A lot of information here. I wonder if the wife will allow me to order several rifles from Gap at the same time. That would mean I would have one for every scenario possible...hmmm.
Thank you everyone for your comments. A lot of information here. I wonder if the wife will allow me to order several rifles from Gap at the same time. That would mean I would have one for every scenario possible...hmmm.
