Help with precision upper

[houndog]

I'm trying to put together a precision AR15. This will be used primarily for shooting between 200 and 600 yards (the max distance of my club range) and maybe occasionally out to 800 or maybe even 1000 on BLM land. I've already got all the parts for a lower. The final piece was an MDT stock I picked up in their Black Friday sale. Also have a Trigger Tech trigger I've been waiting to find the right rifle to drop into.

I'm looking for an assembled upper, as I really don't want to try to put one together myself from assorted parts. Will probably be using match ammo almost exclusively, although I don't hand load, so mostly 77 IMI Razorcore and ADI 69gr. match ammo, which I have a pretty good supply of. I've budgeted about $1,000-1,300. Right now I've narrowed my choices down to the following:

1. WOA upper. Probably the SPR 20" upper, which I can pick up for $610. Seems like a bargain. Or I could get one of their Bartlien/Krieger barrels for more. Not sure it would be worth the extra cost though. Also 1:7 or 1:8 twist? Again will be shooting primarily 77gr. and 69 gr bullets. Seems like a good budget alternative where I won't be giving up a whole lot as far as accuracy is concerned.

2. Compass Lake upper. Would probably get 18" tactical upper. But then I have to choose between Criterion, Krueger and Bartlien barrels, and CLE or Wylde chambers. My instinct says get the cheaper Criterion barrel and Wylde chambering even if I sacrifice a tiny bit of accuracy. If I go this route cost would probably be a little less than $900, but I'd really prefer a 20" barrel, which doesn't appear to be an option in this configuration. Or I could get a match upper.

3. JP Enterprises. Did one of their upper builds and it ends up being $1350. So a bunch more than the other two, but I get some nice JP upgrades and can put together exactly the rifle I want. Oh, and for some reason they're temporarily not shipping to CO (which is of course where I am).

The goal is to end up with a very accurate AR15 that will be used almost exclusively for precision shooting. I want to stay with .223/5.56 to keep price of ammo down ... and I have a couple of nice bolt action rifles in .308 and 6.5CM. Want to keep barrel to 18-20" as I may occasionally attach a suppressor to it, but will need to keep the velocity up, so I think 18" is the bare minimum and would prefer a 20" barrel.

Really not sure what direction I should go in. On the one hand I'm going to be shooting primarily steel (although pretty small targets) although some paper as well, and ultimately at 5-600 yards the wind is going to have an effect on even the most accurate rifle.

On the other hand there's the buy once cry once philosophy, and with JP I'm going to end up with a great, no excuses rifle.

Also, if I've omitted other possible alternatives, please feel free to chime in.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

As it pertains to the AR-15, I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about 18" vs 20", practically speaking there isn't going to be enough difference between the two to really worry about it. Also, with regards to 1:7 vs. 1:8, plenty of people parrot the old "1:7 is for heavy bullets, it's too fast for lighter ones, 1:8 will shoot everything well" dogma. Truth is I haven't really found one to be definitively better than the other when shooting everything from 55 gr FMJ to 77 gr SMK's. Anymore I just say to hell with it and get 1:7 twist barrels and haven't had a problem slinging even 55 gr blaster ammo out to 470 with my 2-Gun rifle (uses a 1:7 16" SS barrel).

Out of your list there, I'd go with the CLE Tactical Upper, 18" barrel from the maker of your choice although I recommend getting a SS barrel, you didn't specify in your post but this is my recommendation. I'd opt for 1:7 twist, Wylde chamber, no fluting, and a rifle length gas system. That upper will do everything you ask of it.

 

[JustinTX]

Not sure you can go wrong with any of the three options all should shoot great.

 

[longshot2000]

you are picking some great uppers. I will say that 18" has a tendency for early port erosion. For some reason, we have not see that with Douglas barrels. That said, go with 20" Stainless. I know the folks at Compass Lake and trust them. The other makers are solid as well. I think you will be waiting 4 to 5 months on a custom upper. While Douglas and Lilja and Bartelien are first choices in AR15 precision barrels, Criterion does a fantastic job, less wait time and lower price point.

 

[houndog]

Helpful info. Kind of overwhelmed at various choices, although I'm probably over-thinking it. Trigger Monkey - I think rifle length gas system is probably the way to go, so long as it cycles reliably (and I assume it wouldn't be an option if it didn't). If I go with CLE I think I'll probably split the difference and get a 1:7.7 twist rate. Don't think I'm going to be hand feeding 80 gr. bullets, and with 77gr., 69gr. and the occasional 55gr. that's probably a pretty optimal twist rate. Again if I go Compass Lake I'm kind of struggling with CLE vs Wylde chamber. Compass Lake claims better barrel life and better accuracy with CLE chamber, but I think the Wylde chamber is almost as good and gives you greater versatility and reliability. And yeah, SS barrel.

Longshot - yes, people seem to like Criterion barrels as well, and this might be a place to save a little money. I really just want something that's pretty solidly 1 MOA or better.

I'm leaning towards eliminating JP from the running, just because of the cost and potential wait time. As for 18" vs. 20", should probably take a look at the drop off in velocity between the two. If I can go shorter, that would be my preference since I'm occasionally going to put a suppressor on the end of it. Also, I think both CLE and WOA offer stock DMR type uppers that are 18".

 

[Trigger Monkey]

You're going to be looking at less than 100 fps difference between a 20" barrel and an 18" barrel. IMI 77gr Razor Core is 2754 fps out of my 18" WOA, out of a 20" barrel it's 2834 fps. At 600 yards this equates to the dope being 4.6 mils and 4.3 mils respectively, about 6 1/2" inches difference and wind wise it's a 0.1 mil difference between the two with a 10 mph full value wind. In practical terms, it's negligible.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hard to go wrong with CLE. I have a CLE rifle and it's awesome. Just well done and runs great. Not sure what the accuracy difference is between theirs and wylde though.

 

[houndog]

Thanks, TM, that's useful. My memory is that once you get up above 18" the additional velocity you get out of a longer barrel becomes pretty negligible. Windage numbers particularly enlightening, as that's the variable I'm primarily worried about once you start stretching the yardage. So I think the 18" barrel makes the most sense. particularly if I'm potentially going to add a suppressor.

 

[db2000]

FWIW, some have more experience than me in the variety of barrels listed previously. I personally can attest to Seekins (Rock Creek), Proof CF, BA and Criterion SS HBAR in AR platform. My buddy swears by Douglas, and their legacy certainly speaks for itself.
Agree with the wait time and Criterion comment above. Here’s my experience with one I recently bought. Seekins IRMT-R w/ 20” Criterion SS HBAR. Frankly, it shoots about the same as shorter BA barrels and 16” Proof CF that cost as much as this whole upper I bought in the PX. The pic is mislabeled “22”” but it’s a 20”. 5 and then 10 shot string.

 

[db2000]

16” CF Proof barrel Seekins IRMT-R upper

 

[db2000]

BA 14.5” Luth-AR upper

 

[houndog]

Thanks for everyone's help. Ended up going with a Compass Lake 18" upper using a Krieger barrel. The cost difference between it and a Criterion was negligible and I really want this to be a "no excuses" rifle so I know any inaccuracy is solely attributable to the shooter. Also, Compass Lake and WOA ended up being almost identically priced when comparing apples to apples ... their lower priced upper uses a different/cheaper barrel.

After much research, I ended up with a Wylde chamber rather than CLE chamber. Don't want to worry if I occasionally put XM193 through the barrel and I read about occasional popped primers with CLE and mil spec. 5.56. Sounds like the accuracy difference is negligible. Also picked rifle length gas system and 1:1.7 twist rate, since I will be shooting primarily 69g. and 77 gr. bullets.

It looks like delivery is running about 4 months, so I'm settling in for a long wait. However, once the upper arrives, I will definitely post some kind of a range report. Maybe even include pictures if I can ever figure out how to attach them.