Hinged Plate vs Detachable Magazines on your Hunting Rifles

[Blueknight99]

Hi Folks - Just wanted to get your opinions and experiences on a hinged plate vs detachable magazine on hunting rifles. And also know which is your favorite and why you prefer it. I’ll start with mine.

Most of my hunting rifles other than the lever actions have detachable magazines (mostly flush fit) and I have been happy with no complaints.

However, this year I decided to try out and hunt with the 6.5 CM and also the carbon fiber barrel mania bit me. So, went ahead and got a Proof Research Elevation Rifle with a hinged floor plate. This was my first experience with a hinged floor plate fixed kinda magazine. I found it a bit unweildy to use for my specific hunting situation. Firstly, I don’t like have a round in the magazine or chamber or while climbing trees and narrow ladders. Once my safety lever went to fire when getting down a ladder (this particular elevation rifle has a bit of an elevated safety lever which is easy to flip). Removing and and loading the rounds although fine is not very user friendly in a hunting situation. While unloading I almost seem to donate an expensive round or two to Mother Earth and also the spring in the detachable plate don’t always come back and snap in to place quickly and efficiently without jamming. Lost a buck when I realized the round handing chambered correctly and I had to unload and reload. Another factor is that in some areas you have to unload your guns while crossing a road onto a game land or hunting property.

Detachable magazines seem to be more user friendly for my type of situation but then again that’s me. Everyone’s situation and circumstances, preferences might be different.

 

[spife7980]

Sounds like you need to figure out how to work your rifle more so than a bdl being the issue.

 

[chevy_man]

I guess I'll throw this out there...

Check the follower when you flip the hinge back into place. Not hard.

You can easily push the rounds down into the mag and slip the bolt past them, leaving the bolt on an empty chamber. Again, not hard.

If the chamber is empty, no need for the safety.

When you're unloading, dump it into a jacket pocket or something. I've never had issues dropping the 3-4 rounds into my hand, and I'm not special. I keep a finger on the bottom plate as I push the release and slowly let it down so I'm in control.

Maybe you need an ADL, as then you don't have a mag to drop or a hinge to open?


I have blind, hinged, and mag feed rifles. They all have a manual of arms, they all work, that never drives any decision to use any particular rifle.

 

[TanktheFrank]

I've used both, I'd say I have a preference towards dbms, but that's just because most of my rifles are set up that way. With that in mind, I think that a dbm would work better for me in most scenarios if I had to completely unload the rifle.

If I had to unload momentarily for driving or getting in/out of stand with hinged.

1. Pull round out of chamber
2 Push rounds in magazine down
3. Insert removed round into magazine
4. Close bolt while depressing rounds in magazine.

If I had to completely unload, or unload for transition with dbm.

1. Drop magazine
2. Take round out of chamber
3. Reload into magazine


Maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's the way I see it.

 

[Blueknight99]

I've used both, I'd say I have a preference towards dbms, but that's just because most of my rifles are set up that way. With that in mind, I think that a dbm would work better for me in most scenarios if I had to completely unload the rifle.

If I had to unload momentarily for driving or getting in/out of stand with hinged.

1. Pull round out of chamber
2 Push rounds in magazine down
3. Insert removed round into magazine
4. Close bolt while depressing rounds in magazine.

If I had to completely unload, or unload for transition with dbm.

1. Drop magazine
2. Take round out of chamber
3. Reload into magazine


Maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's the way I see it.

This ^^. Seems like some of the other posters jumped to conclusions and misunderstood my first post.

Using the hinged floor pate and loading and unloading rounds here is not an education problem. I know very well how to do that.
Like this post above says, it’s a nuisance, taking all rounds out - dropping the hinged plate, catching the rounds, pulling back the bolt, catching the out flying round (let’s leave ejecting the round out for a minute here as it is common to any system ) And , the reloading one by one. Not hard or impossible or not that I can’t do it correctly as others seem to think BUT not as fast, dropping the magazine, keeping it in your pocket and pushing it back in again swiftly.

Again, before we jump into catching words, taking them out of context, and start type bashing, I already made it clear that I’m not bashing any of the two systems but just talking about efficacy, versatility, and speed in a hunting situation.

 

[Blueknight99]

Above being said. I used the same hinged floor plate rifle to fill my tags this season. It might just be chintzy follower plate that caused problems but speed wise I guess dbms are faster.

 

[Blueknight99]

Sounds like you need to figure out how to work your rifle more so than a bdl being the issue.

Seems like you edited your post after you posted it mate?. Nevertheless, I got the email with your original post. I am inclined to believe it was all in good spirit and not intentionally intended to belittle someone ! Take it easy bro.

 

[Rant Durden]

Having used both types, I'm getting rid of most of my hinged floor plate rifles. DBM is the way to go, especially if you are loading/unloading a lot.

 

[b6graham]

Seems like you edited your post after you posted it mate?. Nevertheless, I got the email with your original post. I am inclined to believe it was all in good spirit and not intentionally intended to belittle someone ! Take it easy bro.

don't be offended so easily.

you bought the wrong system for what you need. lesson learned. stick with DBM

 

[LRI]

This is as good a time/place as any to formally announce this, so here goes.

EDIT: (I read my shit after I post it for some stupid reason. It's completely backwards. So, this has been modified since I first posted it.)

Earlier this year I began a production run of DBM's for our product line. The first thing I asked myself is why am I even investing the time to do this? Being part of the "me too" crowd imo is just an insecurity issue born from watching gay porn and Dr. Phil.

I wanted to actually try and solve some issues that I've dealt with since first installing these things 20 or so years ago.

1. Have complete control of manufacturing so that my parts match my inlets.
2. Never have anyone to blame for inventory control other than myself.
3. Offer an M700 OEM BDL appearing DBM tailored to the sporting arms community.
4. Offer the force multiplication of being able to use BOTH our magazine AND the very common Accuracy International format along with the bulk of the aftermarket "clones" offered by others.
5. Preserve more of the stock's core material where the magazine box feature inserts into the rifle stock. This is for strength and for easier install on stocks using a foundation piece made of AL such as Bell/Carlson.
6. Setup the profile so that it will capture most of the existing inlet footprints. In other words, not have remnant corner radius features once installed that have to be bondo'd up to hide. I can't get all of them, but most fit inside ours.
7. Develop the draft taper so that there's some flexibility. Stocks are NOT the same. Not even the same model from the same manufactuer. They hover betwen 2.5 and 3 degrees of taper for the most part. .5 degrees doesn't sound like much but over an 8" span its worth a height discrepancy of almost .07". Ray Charles can see that all day. .07" can/does certainly affect the case overlap potential of a round about to be chambered. How it interfaces with the bolt nose is one of the most critical parts of setting these things up.

The whammy:

8. Actually support the product for end users (be it a shop or guy at home) by providing accurate, detailed prints, 3D CAD models, and actual vetted code that we use every day to fit these to a rifle stock, along with the complete tool package and setup sheet for those fortunate enough to have automation. What we did not do was just toss you a generic PDF doc that outlines the shape and assumes that every ink jet printer on the planet actually prints to scale and is transferable. (the lamest thing I have ever seen in this game) Also, not the defacto response when you call and ask for help: "That's proprietary and we can't divulge that information." (gimme the razor so I can slit my wrists please) or the classic line of, "you just need to send it to us."


-#4. The force multiplication thing. So, you go hunting and your on horseback, huffing and puffing up n down hills, the whole experience. It is nice to have a sleek, easy to use, rifle that does not have a bunch of crap hanging off of it. This is where the BDL, ADL format gets some traction from the more "soviet" looking tactical stuff. The frustrating side of this is the limited capacity on magazines. For hunting one hopes its really not that much of an issue. But, when going to the range or just plinking recreationally, its not very hard to wear your thumbs out gassing up 2 round capacity magazines. Where it gets even more absurd is that most companies attempting to do this try and box you into a corner so that you can only by magazines by them. Make it just different enough to where you are shackled to their product for the duration that you own the gun.

That's just gay.

Solving this seemed like a no brainer.

So, here's what we came up with: LRI's HTR series of DBM's for M700 footprint actions.

First, no castings. These are 100% machined in house on our new 5 axis mill from bar stock. When the part comes off this 1st op it is 100% complete on every facet that relates to stock fitment and function. 2nd op is merely to window the trigger well for the trigger shoe to fit through on the top. Before the parts are pulled from the machine, a probing routine inspects them to ensure they are machined with the prescribed tolerance allowance. If they fail, it alarms and we explore why. Tool breakage, wear, whatever.

The idea is trying to avoid throwing good material in the scrap bin.

The 2nd half of this: Magazines.

I'm quickly learning that sheet metal is a pain in the ass and it is not a trivial thing to conjure up magazines from thin air. It is also incredibly expensive. Compound the cost with knowing that for every length/style change, there's a reset button where tooling costs start completely over. There is no free lunch here.

Still, I believe in this product so we are pursuing this manufacturing effort.

As it stands now, we have two versions. The SA and the CIP length LA. SA accepts, ARC, AI, Alpha, and Accurate mags. The LA CIP version is intended for the 3.885" CIP Lapua magazines. -These work really, really well with 300 PRC loads too.
The alternative magazine lengths are a pretty low intensity thing to change with regards to the floor metal, so those will follow suit in short order. One will have to live with the parent magazine type for now as those will take us longer to bring to market.

But it will happen. I promise you that.

Anyways, thanks for looking.


Here's what this stuff looks like:

SA:









LA:

 

[dirthead1]

This is as good a time/place as any to formally announce this, so here goes.

Earlier this year I began a production run of DBM's for our product line. The first thing I asked myself is why am I even investing the time to do this? Being part of the "me too" crowd imo is just an insecurity issue born from watching gay porn and Dr. Phil.

I wanted to actually try and solve some issues that I've dealt with since first installing these things 20 or so years ago.

1. Have complete control of manufacturing so that my parts match my inlets.
2. Never have anyone to blame for inventory control other than myself.
3. Offer an M700 OEM BDL appearing DBM tailored to the sporting arms community.
4. Offer the force multiplication of being able to use BOTH our magazine AND the very common Accuracy International format along with the bulk of the aftermarket "clones" offered by others.
5. Preserve more of the stock's core material where the magazine box feature inserts into the rifle stock. This is for strength and for easier install on stocks using a foundation piece made of AL such as Bell/Carlson.

The whammy:

6. Actually support the product for end users (be it a shop or guy at home) by providing accurate, detailed prints, 3D CAD models, and actual vetted code that we use every day to fit these to a rifle stock, along with the complete tool package and setup sheet for those fortunate enough to have automation. What we did not do was just toss you a generic PDF doc that outlines the shape and assumes that every ink jet printer on the planet actually prints to scale and is transferable. (the lamest thing I have ever seen in this game) Also, not the defacto response when you call and ask for help: "That's proprietary and we can't divulge that information." (gimme the razor so I can slit my wrists please) or the classic line of, "you just need to send it to us."


-#4. The force multiplication thing. So, you go hunting and your on horseback, huffing and puffing up n down hills, the whole experience. It is nice to have a sleek, easy to use, rifle that does not have a bunch of crap hanging off of it. This is where the BDL, ADL format gets some traction from the more "soviet" looking tactical stuff. The frustrating side of this is the limited capacity on magazines. For hunting one hopes its really not that much of an issue. But, when going to the range or just plinking recreationally, its not very hard to wear your thumbs out gassing up 2 round capacity magazines. Where it gets even more absurd is that most companies attempting to do this try and box you into a corner so that you can only by magazines by them. Make it just different enough to where you are shackled to their product for the duration that you own the gun.

That's just gay.

Solving this seemed like a no brainer.

So, here's what we came up with: LRI's HTR series of DBM's for M700 footprint actions.

First, no castings. These are 100% machined in house on our new 5 axis mill from bar stock. When the part comes off this 1st op it is 100% complete on every facet that relates to stock fitment and function. 2nd op is merely to window the trigger well for the trigger shoe to fit through on the top. Before the parts are pulled from the machine, a probing routine inspects them to ensure they are machined with the prescribed tolerance allowance. If they fail, it alarms and we explore why. Tool breakage, wear, whatever.

The idea is trying to avoid throwing good material in the scrap bin.

The 2nd half of this: Magazines.

I'm quickly learning that sheet metal is a pain in the ass and it is not a trivial thing to conjure up magazines from thin air. It is also incredibly expensive. Compound the cost with knowing that for every length/style change, there's a reset button where tooling costs start completely over. There is no free lunch here.

Still, I believe in this product so we are pursuing this manufacturing effort.

As it stands now, we have two versions. The SA and the CIP length LA. SA accepts, ARC, AI, Alpha, and Accurate mags. The LA CIP version is intended for the 3.885" CIP Lapua magazines. -These work really, really well with 300 PRC loads too.
The alternative magazine lengths are a pretty low intensity thing to change with regards to the floor metal, so those will follow suit in short order. One will have to live with the parent magazine type for now as those will take us longer to bring to market.

But it will happen. I promise you that.

Anyways, thanks for looking.


Here's what this stuff looks like:

SA:

View attachment 7177469
View attachment 7177470
View attachment 7177471
View attachment 7177472
View attachment 7177473

View attachment 7177475

LA:


View attachment 7177477
View attachment 7177478
View attachment 7177479

Love it!!

 

[hlee]

My first hunting rifle was a Marlin lever action 30-30. While the King's loading gate is an improvement over dropping the cartridges down the tube, I never liked needing to cycle the cartridges through the chamber to unload the rifle. I shot a lot of deer with that rifle.

When I was in highschool, I upgraded to a Remington 700 BDL mountain rifle in 270win. The hinged floor plate is a real improvement over the lever gun. Yes, you need to fiddle with the follower, just a bit, so that it is seated properly when closing the magazine. Yes, I have fumbled a few rounds into the dust when unloading. Regardless, I feel that the hinged floor plate is superior to the tube fed gun and the blind box magazine. I've shot a lot of deer with that rifle.

But, when I was searching for my son's first deer rifle I had a few constraints. First, a supremely adjustable LOP. He had TRex arms at the time and I wanted a rifle that we could both shoot easily. I wanted a rifle with an easily visually identifiable safety. And, I wanted a rifle that was EASY to load and unload- this, to me, necessitated a detachable box magazine. I went with an AR15. This is relatively new, so I'll say that we've never lost deer due to this choice, and have shot a few.

I hunt deer with archery equipment, muzzle loaders, lever guns, bolt guns, and semi autos. I've been busted by deer while drawing my bow, so I can't say that I've never lost an animal due to an attribute of the handling of my chosen weapon, but that's the only one.

If you're losing shot opportunities because of your magazine follower, it may be time to review the basic order of operations. Need to climb a stand? Rounds on the mag won't fire. Clear the action and drive on. Unload to cross a road? That's more of a pita, but surely less common. How many public roads do you cross while hunting? I've been deer hunting for 30 years and have hunted both public and private land, and have crossed precisely 0 public roads while hunting. But I tend to start hunting where the road stops. A box mag is a bit easier for crossing a road I suppose, however, I wouldn't look longingly across a road while holding my Marlin thinking "Well, I can't cross that with this..."

This thread sounds a bit like inventing a reason to validate your choice. You like detachable box mags? Great, I'd wager that most here do too, me included.

Grab a gun and go hunting. If the gun is holding you back, it's you not the gun.

 

[Lawnboi]

My 2 cents

I like to carry my gun in my hands if at all possible while hunting. For that reason I choose stuff that sits fairly flush. I have had one hunting weight gun with a cip length aics style mag, and decided it was not for me. A pain to carry, mag was loud and I felt like I was going to lose it.

Magazines, for a hunting gun I prefer flush mount. That leaves out a lot of stuff. For example I really like the tikka mags, plastic deals not the trg stuff. Mags can be lost so I don’t want something so proprietary that a lost mag means scouring eBay for a replacement. Makes unloading and loading easy. But again mags can be lost, one of my biggest worries with magazines.

Bdl is nice in that it’s not going anywhere, I can’t lose it, it’s flush, and great for carry. Loading and unloading is a bit more of a chore.

I’m happy with mags on say my tikka. Iv got a few plastic, a few flush metal to fit the stock tikka bottom metal. I can deal with these, they make loading and unloading easy and I haven’t lost one yet.

 

[LRI]

One additional remark on this:

It won't apply to 99.99999% of the gun nuts on the planet, but whatever. If you are native to Japan and a boss pimp baller, you can go hunting. One very strict provision to this select crowd is that the rifle MUST be cleared whenever you approach anything resembling the following: A road, property line, fence, basically anything you have to navigate through, over, under, or around.

By law the gun must be cleared before navigating that obstacle. Because of this, its an almost fundamental necessity to have a DBM. They have very strict ammunition capacity limits as well so running around with a 30 round AK mag is out of the question.

Just an FYI that experience teaches you when you get exposure to an international client base.

 

[brianf]

Besides what has been said so far I like a dbm because it protects the Ammo.

having Ammo in anything but a hard case/mag is asking for trouble.

ive taken more than a few tumbles and the extra Ammo got messed up. The Ammo in the mag stayed perfect.

 

[pmclaine]

Necro threading but this DBM is the shizzle........