HK 416 - For HK Fanboys

[houndog]

I know there are a lot of people who think anything made by Heckler and Koch is, almost by definition, overpriced. And they've never been particularly friendly to U.S. civilians.

But there are also a lot of HK fanboys and some of their stuff is undeniably well made.

In any event, I thought this looked interesting - https://www.botach.com/hk-416d-parts-kits-used-like-new/

If I'm reading this correctly, this is essentially a complete HK 416 upper, and a complete lower parts kit. The only thing that's missing is the lower receiver.

And, just to make things interesting, I recently read that Brownells has bought up HK 416 blanks from Heckler & Koch and will be machining their own 416 receivers.

Of course, the HK 416 parts kit comes with a 10.5" barrel, so before you attach it to any lower you're going to fill in the necessary paperwork and get your tax stamp from the ATF.

 

[jamescj]

Brownells have the 417 part's kits as well! They are quite pricey but for the true fan boys they may be interested in the bigger brother as well. They only have a few kits available but most are from like new or unfired parts.

 

[houndog]

Yes, I saw that, and it looks like they are in new or nearly new condition. Unfortunately, they don't come with either the bolt or the barrel. Haven't really researched it, but I suspect finding an original HK barrel and bolt might be challenging - and if you go aftermarket you have two pretty important parts that are no longer made by HK. Also, with AR10 style rifles, not all receivers/parts are interchangeable. Not sure what pattern receiver you'd be looking for if you wanted to build up a 417 rifle.

 

[Early Cuyler]

If only it weren't being sold by Botach. I know a few HK fans that'd eat up the opportunity to own a 416 but hope they stay away (unless Botach has drastically changed since the last time I did business with them).

 

[houndog]

So what's the problem with Botach? I think I bought a part from them 6 months ago and there were no issues. Is that the item is not as described? Takes forever to deliver? You're not the first person I've heard complain about them, but I've never really understood why they have a poor reputation. I also seem to recall there being some posts that they've improved over the last several years. Kind of curious, because I am at least a little bit tempted to take the plunge even though I do think it's not the greatest value compared to a similar rifle from PWS, or even a KAC. But my thinking is that if I do go forward I could probably have fun with it for a couple of years and then sell it and pretty much recoup my investment (and possibly even make a profit). And since I already have a registered SBR lower I wouldn't have to get another tax stamp.

 

[Breacher]

Decent kits for the money. Too bad they robbed the sights.

 

[rwatson708]

Botach is supposedly pretty horrible at holding onto your money for many months and emails before either not sending or you cancelling the charge

 

[Early Cuyler]

So what's the problem with Botach? I think I bought a part from them 6 months ago and there were no issues. Is that the item is not as described? Takes forever to deliver? You're not the first person I've heard complain about them, but I've never really understood why they have a poor reputation. I also seem to recall there being some posts that they've improved over the last several years. Kind of curious, because I am at least a little bit tempted to take the plunge even though I do think it's not the greatest value compared to a similar rifle from PWS, or even a KAC. But my thinking is that if I do go forward I could probably have fun with it for a couple of years and then sell it and pretty much recoup my investment (and possibly even make a profit). And since I already have a registered SBR lower I wouldn't have to get another tax stamp.

Back in 2010 I ordered some boots that never arrived. Tried calling, emailing, nothing. Never got them. Had to get a refund.

Heard they had improved and in 2012 they had a deal on a Giessele SSA-E and Accushot Monopod so I emailed them for a stock check as they were cheaper and listed on the website as "in stock" (I wanted to double check the stock status). Didn't hear back from Botach for a few days so I just went ahead and placed the order (still listed as "in stock"). Four days later I got an email saying they were backordered for 3 weeks.

Two weeks after the backorder email, I get a response from the original stock check email saying they're out of stock, haha (no shit, right?).

A week later and some change I emailed them to check on the order status as it would've been 3 weeks from the backorder email. Botach got back to me relatively quickly (~24hrs) saying... the SSA-E ETA is 3-4wks and Monopod 2wks. I cancelled the order and luckily they didn't try any restocking fee but it took a couple of days for the bank to release the funds back into my account.


I've since sworn off them but if they have in fact improved and meet your needs, awesome. They'll never get another cent of mine.

 

[Apothus]

Botach was at one point going to be considered for the urban dictionary.

Botach(verb,adj)- to take advantage of someone, usually in both orifices; to describe an unpleasant situation

IE: I placed an order online and they really Botached it up. Had to file a complaint with the credit card company, it was a really Botachy ordeal

 

[Strykervet]

If only it weren't being sold by Botach. I know a few HK fans that'd eat up the opportunity to own a 416 but hope they stay away (unless Botach has drastically changed since the last time I did business with them).

Then go to Brownells, they sent me a ad about it the other day. They have some 417's too.

I don't know the deal about Botach either, I've heard a lot of "stay aways" but they were the only one that had what I needed one time and I didn't have any problems at all. On the other hand, Midway has burned me more than anyone else and given the most bullshit to deal with after too.

As for lowers, I've seen copies of these rifles. I don't know which to use but being a KAC fanboy (fuck it, I'll admit it) I do know that some of the more hardcore copiers salivating for an M110 have ordered the new SR25 (which IS identical to the new M110 save stock and brake) changed the URX4 with an older, heavier 2 or 3, changed the flash suppressor/suppressor mount for the older, shittier hider/suppressor, swap the stock (I wouldn't mind doing this, they ought to offer a damn option at least!) and finally, wait for it, --they mill, fill in and then re-engrave the lower to say all the M110 shit. Viola, a counterfeit M110 (technically not counterfeit provided it has the original SN). They'll do this with any receiver that'll work too, not just KAC but the KAC ones look best for many reasons.

SO, where to get that lower? Also, is that upper the stainless steel one? Doesn't look like it. Shit, it's overkill but I'd like one for the shits and giggles if it is --I'd rather have the G28 myself.. There are 80% 5.56 lowers I found but not 7.62.

I did some digging for 'ya and what I came up with was that with that kit you'll still need the barrel, bolt and trigger group, plus flash hider/mount, and that bolt alone is $500 (more than a KAC bolt! --but I found Midwest parts has lower prices all around and has it for $250) and you'll need a barrel that's compatible with that bolt, or at least a barrel extension, etc. All I could find was airsoft shit, so good luck there, but 5.56 barrels were around $400, not sure of make, quality or condition. It still seems like a costly venture. I think it's more geared to the guys who bought the civilian versions already, because they'd have all those missing parts it seems. Right? FWIW, barreled uppers in 5.56 are going for $5000! That has to be the 7.62 ones, I have to have that mixed up. Anyway, parts are expensive. More than KAC stuff for sure. It is good looking stuff though and I bet it does work like a champ, probably the best pistol AR made.

Anyway, if you guys build these and go all out, may as well go the next step after you score the Hensoldt scope that goes on it look on Autoweapons.com and see if you can't score an HK grenade launcher that goes on it. They come up from time to time though the Colt and LMT 203's are more common. Doesn't look like a deal I'll be able to take and run with. For some of you this may be just the ticket though.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Never had an issue with botach.

For HK fanboys? How about for men that love well made firearms.

When is the last time HK released a firearm that was a complete piece of shit? Pretty much never

3k is too much for a used 416 kit

I owned a genuine, from the factory 14.5 inch 416 upper kit when they were first released. Since sold it.

Quite simply there is no other piston upper that comes close.

 

[houndog]

Suckit - I'm the original poster and consider myself an HK fanboy. Wasn't meant as a put down. Really just trying to preemptively deal with HK bashers posting about how everything HK is way overpriced. And as you yourself pointed out, 3K does seem like a lot for a used 416 parts kit, particularly when I can buy a very nice PWS that will be completely reliable (at least under normal conditions), lighter, and way cheaper. There is no way around the fact that you do pay a premium for having the HK name. Whether it's worth it for the quality and reliability that comes with that name - is up to you.

On the other hand, given the current market for 416 uppers, $3000 is not out of line (not sure what you paid for your upper), particularly when it includes all the other parts except the lower receiver and iron sights. Assume I just buy a Spikes lower, and put the whole rifle together. Total cost would be approx. $3,300 (including SBR tax stamp). If I spend a year shooting it (assuming I don't beat the cr*p out of it) I have to believe I could sell the complete rifle for around 3 grand. So, worst case scenario I've had the fun of owning and shooting this rifle for a total cost of $300 (plus ammo). See - I'm actually starting to talk myself into putting my order in.

Strykervet - I think you've put your finger on the problem with the 417 kit offered by Brownells. If it came with a barrel and bolt I'd be all over it. But assuming you eventually want an all HK gun that you can actually shoot you are going to have to spend a cr*p load of money to supply the missing parts, if you can find them at all.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Never had an issue with botach.

For HK fanboys? How about for men that love well made firearms.

When is the last time HK released a firearm that was a complete piece of shit? Pretty much never

3k is too much for a used 416 kit

I owned a genuine, from the factory 14.5 inch 416 upper kit when they were first released. Since sold it.

Quite simply there is no other piston upper that comes close.

How did your 416 shoot with match ammo?

HK is at the cutting edge of a lot of stuff and the 416 is basically the most indestructible AR out there. The Aubert & Duval steel they use in their barrels is some real high tech stuff.

 

[RyanScott]

The major advances in the HK are in materials science that could be applied to the M4 as well.

 

[jamescj]

How did your 416 shoot with match ammo?

HK is at the cutting edge of a lot of stuff and the 416 is basically the most indestructible AR out there. The Aubert & Duval steel they use in their barrels is some real high tech stuff.

Sean Burrows shoots awesome when I’ve trained with him

 

[SuckitTrebek]

shot with match like everything else. great.

for a piston AR there is no comparison. They are just too damn expensive