Range Report Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

[phillietimothy]

Happy Holidays to all. If 28 - 33 MOA are needed to reach 1000 yards, can a shooter hold over 5 mils and dial the remaining elevation requirements? I know this would not be ideal. I am new to shooting in general and have no practical experience in anything long range. Thank you, your site has excellent information.

Tim

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

Yes, you can combine any amount of dialing and holds you like.

 

[phillietimothy]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

Lowlight,

I appreciate your response. I would like to ask another question. Assuming one had a mil-dot scope, why use a base to add elevation? It is my understanding that these bases make a 100 or 200 yard zero difficult. Why not use the 5 mils as additional elevation and dial for additional elevation beyond the 5 mils/17 MOA? I know there is a logical answer that is escaping me. Thanks.

Tim

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

Bases don't make getting a 100 yard zero difficult, most scopes are designed to work more efficiently with a base. That is an old misconception that no longer applies with modern optics, at least with the better ones. Bases give you the ability to use the maximum amount of elevation available provided they are matched correctly. In fact some scopes can work with 30 to 45 minutes of cant and still maintain a 100 yard zero.

They reason why, is because we are drawn to the center of the crosshair as opposed to using a dot in the upper quadrant. That is not to say you can't do it, just it is not very effective. It is why you see newer scopes with a whole lot of elevation, some more than 20 mils if you pair it right all from a 100 yard zero. Another why, because there needs to be no reason to dial "down" . One direction is easier then two.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

LL and Bill said some pretty good stuff.

You dont want to hold over 5 mil at 1000y , you'll lose your entire scope picture making it hard to see/call the wind. Most guys will dial elevation and holdover for wind if the wind isnt to bad. IF the wind is bad then you'll dial for "most" of the drift and still expect to holdover alittle for the changing conditions.

dont forget to return to zero !

 

[nfoley]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

Make sure your reticle and turrets are matching, makes it a lot easier!
In your original post you mentioned both MOA ans mil.

 

[phillietimothy]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

Lowlight,

I am a bit confused. If I am holding over, wouldn't I be using the dots below the cross-hairs? You mention "using a dot in the upper quadrant", what am I missing? You also mention "dial down", I confess I am lost. When adjusting for drop, aren't I "elevating" my point of aim to compensate for the drop? I am trying to ask thoughtful questions without being a PITA, please bear with me. Thanks.

Tim

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

If you can't get a 100 yard zero, you are forced to zero above center, as a reference to your statement why not use all the mil dots. Actually you said add 5 but really there are more available if you so wished.

Holding over does mean, main crosshair above the target.

Your over thinking it and confusing yourself, I understand the concepts you're questioning, you're the one a bit confused.

You can use any combination you like including the reference Bil made of a mid range zero in which case you would hold in both directions.

This confusion you are experiencing is why you want maximum elevation using a base and simply dialing as much as possible.

 

[phillietimothy]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

BillPrudden,

I appreciate your responses. The further zero makes a lot of sense. I was playing around with the Nikon Spot On software. It allows one to pick a cartridge and scope and adjust various elements-zero, target distance, scope magnification, etc.. I was curious to see how much drop with a 100 yard zero. I wanted to see how much additional adjustment would be required in addition to the 5 mil holdover. Your point is well taken though. Thanks also for the sloped base primer. I understood what they did, but not why or how. Thanks.

Tim

 

[phillietimothy]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't get a 100 yard zero, you are forced to zero above center, as a reference to your statement why not use all the mil dots. Actually you said add 5 but really there are more available if you so wished.

Holding over does mean, main crosshair above the target.

Your over thinking it and confusing yourself, I understand the concepts you're questioning, you're the one a bit confused.

You can use any combination you like including the reference Bil made of a mid range zero in which case you would hold in both directions.

This confusion you are experiencing is why you want maximum elevation using a base and simply dialing as much as possible. </div></div>

I was not aware that the "upper quadrant" referred to zeroing above the center. I know what you mean now, thanks. I never really thought about using all the dots.

"I understand the concepts you're questioning, you're the one a bit confused."

Lowlight, I hope I haven't been misunderstood. My question may not have been phrased in the manner it was intended. I was confused and I am absolutely aware that you and the others here understand the concepts I am questioning. Forgive me if my question suggested otherwise. Not my intent. I am enjoying my education. I will combine theory with practice this coming spring.

Tim

 

[phillietimothy]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

nfoley,

Thanks, the MOA reference was related to the requirements for a class I was considering taking. The course description indicated that our rifle/scope would need 28-33 MOA. Thanks to this site, I now know that there are 3.43 MOA in a mil. I will match the reticle and turrets. I appreciate your response.

Tim

 

[timelinex]

Re: Holdover plus dialing for 1000 yards.

As other have stated, the base is to provide extra elevation adjustment.

Your asking why someone needs that when they can just holdover. Well there's three answers to that.

1. Its much easier to just dial and shoot at the center. If your talking about gigantic targets, then sure its easy. But try putting moa target at like 200 yards and lets say your drop is 3.3 mils. Try to hold at 3.3 mils using your reticle. Much less accurate since you have no visual cross or lines to synchronize the target with.

2.Depending on how far you shoot, you can run out of room on your internal adjustment AND scope without a 20moa base. For example try to shoot a 308 at a mile, and you need like 105MOA. Without a 20moa base you wouldn't even be able to have it in your FOV while holding over. Not recommending to shoot 308 at a mile or that its done often, but just an example.

3. Most the time 20MOA bases and 0MOA bases are basically the same price, so the question becomes WHY NOT enable yourself to use more elevation if needed. As stated earlier 100 yard zero with 20MOA base isn't a problem on almost all scopes.