Hornady 30 cal 225's

[Bigwheels]

Last weekend I was finally able to send 20 of these down range @ 1300yd to see how they did.
Conditions:
Bright sun
Baro: 28.59"
Temp: 58*
Humid: 38%
Wind: Variable from 3-7 mph, & switching from R-L/L-R.
Mirage: Horrible.Target appeared to move almost 1moa.

Load:
Hornady .308 225gr HPBT (Moly'd)
Win Brass (3rd fired, annealed, belt sized, FL sized, & trimmed to 2.615")
WLRM Primers
76.5gr H-Retumbo
Seated to .002" off lands.(2.770" to ogive in my chamber)
Velocity: 2865 ave.
Sight Height: 2.3"
Rifle: Custom Montana 1999 in 300WM, with 28" 1:10" Krieger & 5.5-25 X 56 NXS NP-R1.

I started using the .711 BC, & FFS with all the data entered, & was impacting high by 1/2 moa @ 1300yd. I adjusted the DK function, & arrived @ .503 DK. I know that doesn't jive with the published BC, etc. But that was what I was hitting with.
According to this data I'm shooting just 1/4 moa lower than my pet 208 A Max load @ 2950 out to 1150yd, & by 1500 the 225gr has 1 1/2 moa on it, & carries more energy. The 225 definitely bucked the winds better, as I was having trouble keeping the A Max on target with the same consistency as the 225's. Group size was about 1/2-3/4 moa which for the conditions I was verry happy with.(considering the mirage making the tgt move around at least that much)
I have 30 of these left, & am in the process of loading them up for more testing. I just may switch these to be my new pet load if they continue to perform better than the A Max. I'm hoping to get these out to 2000yd soon to see if they will remain stable through trans-sonic velocities like the A Max does. I'll report back when I have more to add.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Good feedback. I may be doing some work with a bunch of these pretty soon. Stay tuned.

John

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I shot a bunch of these today...Loaded at the range so I could try tweaking things a bit but I only moved seating depth once and pretty much just played with powder charge. My ogive to base measures 2.846 but I cant fit really anymore than 73 grains of H1000 without crushing it but they may be due to my nosler custom brass and its the older thicker stuff.I did try up something different though by seating all rounds partially then flipping the press upside down and taking the cases and tapped them to try and get the powder to settle around bullet and case shoulder then finish the seating operation. It worked to a fair degree but every now and again I would still hear alittle crunching sound but just barely. I still tried to seat normally as I descended powder charges but every round(A round was loading 5 shots at a time) I would get one or two that would unexpectedly crunch loud and I think that is where my higher ES comes to play and It happened almost every time down to 72.3grns.I think I would like to try retumbo also just to see...

I was trying to get the 2750 cause I couldn't get 2850....I dunno no reason really other than my crunching and to see if es would plain out alittle more

Accuracy was decent but I was shooting prone off an AI bipod with a crap rear bag and Ive been kinda fighting my razor a bit with parallax(That some of my problem John thanks) and just not being used to it I guess. I also started using the holdover dots as a focal point of the EBR2 ret and that helped me a bit...all todays work was done @100yrds and all groups were under 1moa im just kinda hard on myself because I want to see bug holes like with my 210VLDs but in fairness I was using a different scope that I have been using for years...

Load:
.308 225 BTHP Hornady
Nosler Brass, 6th firing, annealed, trim 2.648,bumped shoulder 2x
FED 210M
72.3 of H1000 doesnt break any speed records but it looks consistent
John King trued rem700(started life as a sendero sfII) 300WM in AICS wearing a 28in SS Krieger 1 in 10 and a .30cal AWC thundertrap


String 1
73.5
seated on the lands
1) 2829.0 1.5
2) 2813.0 -14.5
3) 2834.0 6.5
4) 2834.0 6.5

High: 2834.0
Low: 2813.0
E.S.: 21.0
Ave.: 2827.5
S.D.: 8.6
95%: ±18.2

String 2
73.5
jammed 10 thou(2.856)
1) 2796.0 -6.6
2) 2802.0 -0.6
3) 2803.0 0.4
4) 2799.0 -3.6
5) 2813.0 10.4

High: 2813.0
Low: 2796.0
E.S.: 17.0
Ave.: 2802.6
S.D.: 5.7
95%: ±8.9

String 3
73.3
jammed
1) 2806.0 12.8
2) 2786.0 -7.2
3) 2785.0 -8.2
4) 2783.0 -10.2
5) 2806.0 12.8

High: 2806.0
Low: 2783.0
E.S.: 23.0
Ave.: 2793.2
S.D.: 10.5
95%: ±16.2

String 4
73
jammed
1) 2774.0 -7.4
2) 2786.0 4.6
3) 2785.0 3.6
4) 2780.0 -1.4
5) 2782.0 0.6

High: 2786.0
Low: 2774.0
E.S.: 12.0
Ave.: 2781.4
S.D.: 4.3
95%: ±6.7

String 5
72.8
jammed
1) 2757.0 0.8
2) 2756.0 -0.2
3) 2761.0 4.8
4) 2755.0 -1.2
5) 2752.0 -4.2

High: 2761.0
Low: 2752.0
E.S.: 9.0
Ave.: 2756.2
S.D.: 2.9
95%: ±4.6

String 6
72.6
jammed
1) 2761.0 5.4
2) 2753.0 -2.6
3) 2739.0 -16.6
4) 2765.0 9.4
5) 2760.0 4.4

High: 2765.0
Low: 2739.0
E.S.: 26.0
Ave.: 2755.6
S.D.: 9.2
95%: ±14.2

String 7
72.5
jammed
1) 2775.0 0.0
2) 2771.0 -4.0
3) 2769.0 -6.0
4) 2778.0 3.0
5) 2782.0 7.0

High: 2782.0
Low: 2769.0
E.S.: 13.0
Ave.: 2775.0
S.D.: 4.7
95%: ±7.2

String 8
72.4
jammed
1) 2766.0 -2.6
2) 2754.0 -14.6
3) 2777.0 8.4
4) 2777.0 8.4
5) 2769.0 0.4

High: 2777.0
Low: 2754.0
E.S.: 23.0
Ave.: 2768.6
S.D.: 8.5
95%: ±13.2

String 9
72.3
jammed
1) 2775.0 0.8
2) 2771.0 -3.2
3) 2769.0 -5.2
4) 2781.0 6.8
5) 2774.0 -0.2
6) 2775.0 0.8

High: 2781.0
Low: 2769.0
E.S.: 12.0
Ave.: 2774.2
S.D.: 3.8
95%: ±4.7

String 10
random crap I shot to get full sets o brass back in use
1) 2782.0 2.9
2) 2765.0 -14.1
3) 2783.0 3.9
4) 2766.0 -13.1
5) 2777.0 -2.1
6) 2773.0 -6.1
7) 2787.0 7.9
8) 2780.0 0.9
9) 2799.0 19.9

High: 2799.0
Low: 2765.0
E.S.: 34.0
Ave.: 2779.1
S.D.: 10.0
95%: ±8.6
Im really tired and I feel like Im rambling now...Im not trying to make any points but will take pointers I just decided to post this as this is how it went kinda of a thing. If there is any gaping holes in my story let me know please...Im going to try a few diff powders and maybe a ladder test just to see...anyways

 

[jrob300]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

SJ,

Try jumping them about .020" and see what kind of velocity you get. I get serious pressure spikes as I get really close to the lands and velocity drops. YMMV.

John

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Ok thanks ill try it...I did notice a sharp drop in velocity jammed but I never had any signs of pressure with the case as full as I could get it. Its going to be a tight fit powder wise and even with the added velocity of jumping it I will loose more case capacity as it is...Are you still running Nosler brass?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I have some Nosler and Federal that are on their last leg (some over 20 firings now... can't complain). They are the same case capacity. I'm using WInchester for my new stuff. Lot of work, but more capacity by about a grain of H1000. If you get some, it's fine brass, just plan on touching the necks to get them concentric and anneal them right off. Mine had all over the map seating pressures and shot about 1 moa, then annealed them and they tightened right up and the seating pressure variance went away completely.

John

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Yeah Ive been really tempted to try some plain ole Winchester brass but mine haven't gave up the ghost yet. Did you feel the seating pressure by hand or are you using a k&m arbor with dial indicator press and hand dies?

I thought the .711 BC was just a guess and .66 was the actual BC for this projectile?

I have 215M primers and access to retumbo...do you think any exchange of these would lead me down a worth while path? my barrel stays super clean so that makes me think Im using my powder very efficiently and also makes me feel like I may see a gain in a slower powder. If it turned out to slow with the 210M I could step up to the 215M to see if I could light off the powder alittle quicker maybe? What do you think of the thought process here? Potential or waste of time? I guess thats what Bigwheels is using and we have a similar setup so I guess Im answering my own question that there is potential...dang it I have begun rambling a bit again...I kinda just type what Im thinking I guess

Chris

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I think you're on the right track. I use Win brass, & I had a lot of crunching on my 1st try with these, so I use a long drop tube now, & I still pour slow with that, & get a little crunching. Retumbo likes to be compressed I guess. I think you'll be better off using a drop tube. With your length to ogive you should be able to get more powder than I can, so get a drop tube, & give it another try. Also I found that H-1000 is denser than Retumbo, so it takes up less room in the case, but was about 50 fps slower than Retumbo. I may try H-1000 again with the drop tube, & see if I can get the velocity, but I'm pretty happy with the Retumbo now.

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Ok yeah I was pouring slow or trying too at least...I was using a cheap plastic Frankford Arsenal 4in drop tube but still having trouble. I guess I can get a longer one and give that a try

 

[bohem]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Something that I've done for really settling powder for 100%+ case fills is:

Pour the charge into the case.
Put index finger over case mouth
Turn on vibratory tumbler and touch case to running tumbler for a 10 count.
Seat bullet.

It's sometimes enough to take the crunch out, but I was using it for shooting 110%case fills of Retumbo from a 6.5-06 and getting really good speeds and groups on paper at 4 digit distances.

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Yeah i was thinking of actually mounting a electromechanical vibration generator on my press start seating operation the activate with a foot pedal or something...but that may not work and I wouldnt be able to hear crunching anyways

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I will try that next time I load thanks!

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I had a good day for some work today. I had to get the target area cleared off somewhat, set up the tgt, & drive back to the FFP. I then spent several minutes observing the conditions, etc.
Baro: 27.97"/ Temp: 49.5*/ Humid: 67%/ Wind: variable from mostly 10:00-11:00 o'clock @ 0-5mph.
I doped my scope to 82.5 moa, & 4.75 moa L wind, & sent a few to 1933yd. Got a hit on my 3rd shot.(when I returned to take down the tgt I saw that #1, & 2 were too far left.) No spotter with me today, & I couldn't see where they hit. They were hitting point first. I fired 6 rnds total, but couldn't find the other 3 rnds in the brush next to the tgt. FFS was right on with the BC @ .711 MV @ 2865fps, & the DK @ .5035.
I was mainly testing the set up for the mile+ range, so I didn't waste any more rnds. The ground around the tgt needs to dry out some, & I still need to clear some brush to be able to see misses better.
So far I am realy begining to like these bullets. 82.5 moa for 1933yd. from a 100yd zero.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

We shot the 225's to 1780 yards this last weekend. Running the exact velocities and enviromantal conditions, we are coming up with a G1 BC of .690, and a G7 BC of .351. Come-ups to 1780 yards was 76 MOA out of the TRG running at 2702 fps avg in 96 degrees, 29.86 pressure, and 42% humidity. We had a 12-15 mph swiching head wind that made it very difficult to stay on target. I'm going to play with the load some and see if I can get a few extra fps out of it. Oh, and did I mention the bullet has a 3.3 second flight time! You could shoot, eat lunch then watch your impact.
I love this bullet! It hits steel noticably harder than a 190 and 208/210 grain bullet. I am switching to this bullet for all my 300WM ammo!

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Yep. I've already done the switch, but until I can test some in a ballistic medium I'm going to keep some 208 A Max on hand for LR hunting. I'm still befuddled about why my results are shooting flatter than the BC's can account for. I'm going to re chrony, & recheck my zero, & see if anything changes.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

We were also shooting flatter than predicted with the .670 BC. We took our known come-ups, and plugged them into several programs using a G7 BC. The BC that worked with our come-ups was .351. We had 3 seperate 300 WM's shooting 3 different speeds. Using the .351 G7 BC put all of us on target out to 1780 yards. This is with a confirmed 100 yard zero, a 1000 yard and 1780 yard confirmation with the exact enviromental conditions inserted into the ballistics calculator.

With this high G7 BC, it will out do the Berger 7mm 180 grain VLD! So, for a 300WM or similar magnum caliber, it is an awesome bullet for long range shooting. I'll be trying it on deer and pigs this hunting season. I couldn't imagine a 225 grain 30 cal bullet would have an trouble on game.

 

[DIBBS]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I've only done a limited amount of looking....how readily available are the 225's. They seem like a specialty bullet, that "may" have limited production runs? Any insider information on planned production?

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

ChadTRG42. What programs were you using? Were any of the rifles you were shooting pushing them past 2800fps? Just curious. I just ran your numbers through JBM, & compared the output to my FFS, with my corrections, & they are .1 moa different @ 1250 yd. Maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought. I'll account that to the difference in G1, vs. G7 BC. I also doubt they will have any problems on game, but I like to see what they do anyway.
Dibbs. I have only found them to be unobtainium for a few weeks so far. Then they were back in stock. No worse than the 208 A Max. I have 500 of them on the bench now, along with 500 208 A Max's, which may be for sale soon...

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

I use this link for all my trajectory data. I understand it to be JBM. The other 2 guys were using JBM and one other program, maybe PDA data. I was running 2702 avg fps last weekend, and 888 said he was running 2840, and the other was ~2800 fps. I'm about to switch to Win brass for cost reasons and added case capacity. They were running almost 2 grains more Retumbo and getting more speeds. My loads are fairly compressed with Nosler brass, and could use a few extra fps for our mile shooting.

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Hornady 30 cal 225's

Yep. Thats JBM. I'm running Win Brass, with 76.5 gr Retumbo seated .002" off the lansd with moly'd 225's for 2865 fps. I wish my PDA would use the G7, but it doesn't. Stuck with the G1.