Hornady 90fps ES in same lot of ammo 6.5CM 140gr ELD-M LOT#3230329 (HOWA1500 rifle)

[Winder80]

Hey Guys,
Wanted to ask anyone out there if they have experienced any issues with velocity from the SAME LOT from Hornady ELD-M 140's?
attached is some data we have from different lots of ammo in Hornady's 140gr ELD-Match (#891500) Lot #3230329.
In the very same rifle on the same day from a different box, but same lot purchased within minutes of eachother, we found a large difference in Velocity numbers.
The ES numbers were very good from each box. BUT, the velocities were vastly different.
Now I think the Howa 1500 24" heavy barrel may be accounting for an overall (+/-70pfs) slower velocity than that of the Bergara due to the Howa just being a little slower than the Bergara premier barreled action.
I called hornady and I spoke to a technical person who's name I will leave off here because he stated some things that honestly I don't think Hornady believes.
He stated that "an 80-100fps spread in the same lot can be typical in this ammo."
Now, I don't believe that for a minute on their ELD-M/X ammo lines, and I don't think Hornady does either. I have had velocities very consistent from lot to lot and especially in the same lot.
On the sheet you can see that the Howa shoots all the ammo slower than the Bergara. Kudos to Bergara, it's a nice tight rifle.
I am wondering if I should also be reaching out to Howa to see if there is anything wrong with my barrel.
Typically, you wouldn't see this detriment pop up unless you were shooting out to transonic ranges, which we were and noticed it very vividly.
2545fps at 60Fwas at the time about 2510fps avg due to lower temps of about 30F, but transonic instability popped into play at anything over 800Y.
During a long range class, that's not what you want from brand new match ammo.

Please let me know you thoughts?
I'd like to know how I can handle this. Howa or Hornady?
-Austin

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

How does it shoot?

There's a reason the top benchrest guys don't care about ES. It can be about like a borescope. It will convince you that you have a problem where no problem exists.

 

[spife7980]

Wow, factory ammo isnt good and can have unexplainable differences by the time it gets to you, imagine that.

 

[ma smith]

ES of 90 is translates to around SD of 22.5. @Lowlight noted his ELDM was like 12 SD 2 years ago. Not anymore tho.

 

[Huckmeat]

I've shot a lot of Hornady 6mm, 6.5mm, and 6.5PRC factory match. Mostly 108s, 140s, and 147.

Starting about 3 years ago the SD went above 15. Before that it was great. I've still shot a lot of it but buy other factory match if I can't reload now.

 

[Sogan]

I wouldn’t expect amazing SD or ES from factory ammo but that’s just me

 

[Huckmeat]

I wouldn’t expect amazing SD or ES from factory ammo but that’s just me

It was decent at one point. But an SD going from 12 to 40 doesn't hack it.

The kraft guy has a good discussion on the relative important of SD. Single digit SD's isn't really that important for most shooters. Nice, yes. But not usually the reason most people miss.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I've shot a lot of Hornady 6mm, 6.5mm, and 6.5PRC factory match. Mostly 108s, 140s, and 147.

Starting about 3 years ago the SD went above 15. Before that it was great. I've still shot a lot of it but buy other factory match if I can't reload now.

I chronoed a box of 140gr hornady match a month or two ago and the SD was like 24.

To make @Secant happy, sample size was 20 shots measured by a labradar chrono

 

[Sniperstud]

I just chronoed a new lot of 6.5CM 147gr ELD-M. The SD was 12 across two rifles, so far.

 

[kthomas]

I feel like I've always had pretty high SD's with Hornady factory ammo.

That's definitely on the high side, but from memory I've had Hornady ammo that was ~25 SD. Still shot great though, even out to distance surprisingly.

If you want tight SD's, handload.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

A 90es is what you would see long term for 15sd ammo when you account for 99.7%. 15sd isn't uncommon for factory ammo.

Most don't understand the relationship of SD and ES and are always surprised at long term ES numbers.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That's Hornady "quality" for you. If you think that's exciting just wait until those ELD-M's start blowing apart into grey puffs down range and never make it to the target.

 

[DocRDS]

Shot 30 eld-m 140 gr Factory ammo this am. SD was 10 (at 1000 yards)

 

[Secant]

This would be far more insightful if people would provide the number of shots with their SD/ES numbers. Most people know this, but smaller sample sizes will erroneously show high or low SD/ES. In my experience, you need a minimum of 15-20 rounds to start seeing a legitimate SD.

 

[BurtG]

Covid and the resulting lackadaisical employees and lack of employees. Fucked up a lot of things.

Hornadys quality is one of them

 

[JM4590]

How Much Does SD Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

Interesting read….

 

[ColinW]

Hey Guys,
.....
I'd like to know how I can handle this. Howa or Hornady?
-Austin

I do not mean this in a derisive context. But, you can easily accomplish lower velocity spreads by reloading your own ammunition and not relying on factory ammunition to obtain your objective. Cheers!

 

[clark33]

I have noticed a pretty big difference in the way my rifle shoots the 6.5 prc match ammo pre and post pandemic lots. Was great pre pandemic, about 3 moa on a good day post pandemic. Whatever they switched up my rifle does not like.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Covid and the resulting lackadaisical employees and lack of employees. Fucked up a lot of things.

Hornadys quality is one of them

I had plenty of issues with Hornady ammo, bullets, brass, and even dies long before Covid.

 

[Winder80]

I wanted to shout out to everyone a big thank you for the conversations. I have been reading. I do handload as well.
The whole story is as follows.
During Long range shooting course out at K&M Precision. (Highly recommend if you haven't been, i've been 2x) We go throught 200 rounds and life got in the way and couldn't handload for class. Only found 100rnds of 140s ELD-M locally (Lot A) for class.
When I got to class I bought another 200 rounds of 140s ELD-M (Lot B).
My brother also bought 200 rnds from class (Same Lot B).
Day 1 chrono rifle with lot A. @ 32F 2610 2622 2628 2632 2610=2632 avg over 5 shots, velocity being down a bit made sense bc of temps.
Dot drills went awesome. Made minor tweaks to zero. .2mils or less. .............we're tracking for a great day....60 rounds later and I mixed LOTS.
...I Take full responsability for doing this...
(I learned my lesson with that for sure, just didn't know it was going to make THAT big of a deal, and in my experience, factory match has never been that different from lot to lot.)
THAT screwed up the reast of my day pretty bad. Shot out to 800Y with really no issue, not missing at all. Then bam.
No hit, in the dirt. "Check your dope!" instructor says.
I check dope and reassure "dope is good sir." Reaquired 900Y and send again, nothing, low splash. (.6 low)
Had to wait until shooting was done for the excersize where others were able to reach out to 1200Y. Im bummed!
Went to re-zero, low. Checked rifle and scope and bipod. Then adjusted dope for new zero. Reacquired, still low.
Next morning 27F, Re-Chrono'd now because no one knows whats up.
New Chrono Numbers are very low: 2510fps avg!!! (Lot B)
Very disappointed I shot the rest of the class with new low FPS numbers and the ammo shot very accurately. Very good performance.
Back to 800Y shot very well. 900Y......NOPE Transonic.
Anyway, we were don't shooting at extended ranges for the class and started shooting movers, so much fun, but compared to my bother who was shooting the same lot ammo I was (Lot B), his holds were waay different. Like ALOT. Both for distance and lead. He was also touching 2680 at 27F.
Frustrated that I thought my rife must have broken or the lands burnt out or something strange, I was upset with the rifle.
Got home and same day shot over chrono, this time at 60F.
Lot A Shot well.
Lot B that I had left over shot waay low.
Lot B that my brother bought that same day, shot great in my rifle as well. Along the same lines as other manuf. as you could see from the data i posted.
That is where my frustration is at. Same Lot on the same pallet of ammo, the very next case to mine, shoots great like it should.
Across an understandably small sample size of 4 rounds it averaged 84.85 fps lower from 1 box in Lot B to another box in Lot B.

There you have it. The whole story.