Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

[libertyman777]

I'm having a problem with compressing loads using Hornady bullets.

I started out with some American Eagle FMJ ammo that I shot up for the brass. Was using published data for the 175 grain A-Max and I couldn't load the case beyond 41 grains or so without compression the load. OAL was 2.81

So, I asked about it elsewhere and was told that Federal Brass ran thicker and might have less capacity. Sounded plausible to me. So I picked up some Winchester.308 brass, ran it through the Redding FL sizing die, trimmed and primed'em up. I also moved to the 155 grain A-Max. I reset the headspace in my Savage 12 and seated a dummy round with the 155 that measured 2.822 OAL. So I set up to seat the rounds to 2.818. My manual starts me out at 44 grains of Varget and I'm weighing each throw (throwing with a 3.1 Lee Dipper, which is a little light, and trickling up to 44 grains). Seated bullet, everything is cool. But when I move up to 44.5, I'm compressing again.

What gives? Are the A-Max bullets longer for a specific weight than others of the same weight?

Should I change to Sierra or Lapua 155's?

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Compressing with 44 grains???? Get yourself a real scale/powder measure. I'm not even "compressing" my loads(No crunch) with 47.8 grains of varget (This is a warm load, work up) with win brass 155 Amax, Nosler or Lapua Scenars. A longer drop tube will help you settle the powder as well, instead of the extruded kernels bridging and making the load seem compressed.

How are you measuring OAL? Tip or Ogive? Based on this answer you could actually be seating the bullet too deeply. My COAL at the ogive is 2.82 which feeds in AICS mags just fine for any of the aforementioned bullets without any crunch at all.

Something is seriously wrong with powder dispensing, or your measurement on the OAL, Bullet seating. Not picking on you, just trying to narrow down the specific issue.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

No offense taken. I'm measuring to the tip of the bullet. I have a
comparator which would measure from ogive to the base plus the
width of the comparator. I used to load 7.5x55 Swiss and had no
problems. What is the max OAL for .308? I made a dummy round
that measured 2.822 by starting a bullet in the case, loading it into
the chamber and seating it with the bolt against the lands. I did not
remove the ejector to do this but since it is applying pressure off the
boltface the I thought it would be long instead of short.

I'm pretty sure
my powder throws are accurate but I will check.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Oh, Im not hearing a crunch, I just am unable to hear
the loose powder in the case after I seat the bullet.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Get yourself a drop tube for your powder funnel. I also would use something better than a Lee dipper.

I use Winchester cases and the 178s with 45.2grn of Varget and there is some slight crunching but not much. I load 44.2grns in my Lapua cases. There's a problem somewhere but I don't think it's the components. Go back over everything again.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Yeah those 178's are a little long Rob. lol

In that case Libertyman, like Rob01 said, get a drop tube for your funnel it will seat the kernels better.

Put it this way, with Win cases a 47.8gr charge of varget just came up to the base of the shoulder junction to the edge of the bottom of the case neck. 155 Scenars and no crunch, and I can hear slight movement of the powder when shaking the case.

If you have something that can vibrate the web area near the base of the case after charging with powder it might help settle the powder a little more uniformly for you although it will take a few more seconds for each loaded round.

 

[bohem]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

If you're trickling the load for each round you aren't gaining anything by getting a real thrower. I'd still suggest you get one, even the Lee $20 thrower is worlds better than a dipper.

The Amax has a longer boat tail than the Sierra or Noslers if I remember seeing snapshots of them side by side. I think Brian's latest full bore article mentions that, but I've been working too much to be reliable 100%.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're trickling the load for each round you aren't gaining anything by getting a real thrower. I'd still suggest you get one, even the Lee $20 thrower is worlds better than a dipper.

The Amax has a longer boat tail than the Sierra or Noslers if I remember seeing snapshots of them side by side. I think Brian's latest full bore article mentions that, but I've been working too much to be reliable 100%.

</div></div>

Thanks guys. I'll check everything again.

Is this article here at the Hide?

Paul

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Amax has a longer boat tail than the Sierra or Noslers if I remember seeing snapshots of them side by side. I think Brian's latest full bore article mentions that, but I've been working too much to be reliable 100%.

</div></div>

You're correct Bohem. They are a little longer - but with not even 45 grains, there should be room for the powder to move inside the case as libertyman is doing an auditory check after seating.

 

[Falar]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

The 155gr Amax is a pretty short bullet, if you switch to the 155 Lapua you'll find it is longer than the Amax by a considerable margin and is even longer than 175gr SMKs. That being said, why are you worried about compression? I shoot 155gr Scenar and 208gr Amax in .308 and all of the best loads are compressed.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Some loads will work OK with a compressed charge. As long as the bullet isn't "creeping" back out on you. Load a few and measure them. Go have dinner and rest a bit. After a couple of hours go check them again. If the overall length is still the same, they should be OK. If you don't want to measure every one of them, try this. As soon as you seat the bullet, mark a ring around the bullet at the case mouth with a Sharpie pen. If it creeps you'll have a space of clean metal showing.

There's nothing wrong with making them long enough for your chamber. Just use caution that the bullet doesn't engage the lands of the barrel. If you eject one that has a bite on the lands, you'll have an action & trigger full of powder. Another thing to think about is are you going to hand feed or load the magazine? If you go magazine you'll need them at least short enought to work reliably.

Good luck.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

I went back and checked my powder throw against a digital
scale. I am within 1/10 grain so I think that is okay.

I rechecked OAL and it's okay too.

I shook the 44.5 rounds by holding the bullet instead of the case
and could hear and feel the powder so I threw some 45 grain
loads. The powder was up through the shoulder to the beginning
of the neck. Now there is slight compression. It does seem that
settling the powder seems to make a difference. I'm headed to the
range this weekend.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Hey Libertyman - I'm enjoying the 5r I got from you...

I am having a similar problem with Federal brass - did you notice an improvement with the other brass? How long are the 175 Amaxes? I have some 165 Nosler Accubonds that are longer than 175smks that i am having trouble with, although I am pretty much certain it is the seater I have that is the problem.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Libertyman - I'm enjoying the 5r I got from you...

I am having a similar problem with Federal brass - did you notice an improvement with the other brass? How long are the 175 Amaxes? I have some 165 Nosler Accubonds that are longer than 175smks that i am having trouble with, although I am pretty much certain it is the seater I have that is the problem. </div></div>

Good deal. I'm glad you're enjoying the rifle.

I switched to Winchester brass and it seems a little better. I'm going to try the longer tube suggested above. I'm also going to pick up some SMK 155's.

Paul

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

pmc brass is notorious for deeper primer pockets that causes the same thing.

i get nervous with compressed loads, and tend to stay away from them, but i am a pussy.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Hornady Bullets and compressed loads.

Well I pressed ahead and have worked up to the following with the 155 A-Max. I had 24 virgin cases left so I shot 2 four shot groups of each.

45.2 Varget (.842" CTC average)
45.4 Varget (1.23" CTC average)
45.6 Varget (.847" CTC average)

The hotter load printed both groups with three round touching even though the 45.2 was slightly smaller. No overpressure signs. I've now necksized the cases and have loaded 10 rounds at 45.7 and 10 at 45.8. I've also loaded up some with the 155 SMK's which don't show any signs of compressing. Differences in ogive. The SMK seems to be located more forward than the A-Max.
Paul