"Hot" pistol caliber 22 in a semi auto rifle ?

[GetReal]

Recently came across 22 TCM (RIA) as a 40 gr 22 cal bullet going in excess of 2000 fps....which sounds really cool.

But the bit of research I did doesn't make 22 TCM seem like a viable platform (i.e. widely avaiable inexpensively, or reloadable)

Are there any pistol caliber in .22 that run really hot in a semi rifle?

Digging around..... anyone any experience ith CMMG's 5.7 x 28 uppers? This seems to fit the bill.

 

[Yondering]

I have a 22TCM bolt action; it's basically shortened 5.56 brass pushing a 40gr at 2650 fps from a 22" barrel. The factory ammo is not terribly expensive, but not very common either. It uses a weird short bullet, so most aftermarket bullets don't work well for handloading.

As for putting that in an AR, I really don't see the point since it'll be the same weight or heavier but use more expensive ammo for weaker ballistics. However if you're determined, you could make it work with a shorter gas system and maybe a light carrier. The easier method is to just download a normal 223 if you want those ballistics.

There really aren't any other viable options except those two for a semi-auto. The 5.7 is much better in a P90 than an AR, in my experience, but those are really overpriced for what they are. The 22 Hornet makes about the same ballistics, but isn't semi-auto friendly. Anything else that fits pistol magazines is a wildcat handloading proposition with no factory ammo support.

 

[GetReal]

Right now I'm looking at CMMG's 5.7 upper with radial delayed blowback. Good reviews.

Ammo cost / availability is sketchy.

Locally its $30 / 50 rounds. On the 'net its unobtanium.

 

[hlee]

Are you looking for an AR15 compatible 22 caliber cartridge, or a semi-auto "something" in a "pistol length 22 caliber cartridge?"

 

[GetReal]

Are you looking for an AR15 compatible 22 caliber cartridge, or a semi-auto "something" in a "pistol length 22 caliber cartridge?"

AR15 compatible would be preferrable as I've already already got a SBR'd lower set up the wayI want it.

 

[Ledzep]

.221 Fireball?

 

[GetReal]

.221 Fireball?

I asked first. I'm asking what's possible.

 

[hlee]

Is there a MORE AR15 compatible cartridge than 223/5.56? The gun is made for it. Ammo is easily available, inexpensive, and reloadable...

 

[RTH1800]

Reminds me of a friend. He had a new wildcat he was excited about.
The .204 R is basically a 222 Rem Mag necked to .204. He was making brass for his planned wildcat by necking up .204 R Hornady brass to .224.
He ask what I thought. I showed him the exact data he could use in the old Spear manual. 222 Rem Mag.

 

[GetReal]

Is there a MORE AR15 compatible cartridge than 223/5.56? The gun is made for it. Ammo is easily available, inexpensive, and reloadable...

I already own a 1/2 dozen of them. I'm looking for something else.

 

[RyanScott]

Reminds me of a friend. He had a new wildcat he was excited about.
The .204 R is basically a 222 Rem Mag necked to .204. He was making brass for his planned wildcat by necking up .204 R Hornady brass to .224.
He ask what I thought. I showed him the exact data he could use in the old Spear manual. 222 Rem Mag.

22-204 isn’t a bad idea, you get a steeper case and shoulder, but you have a hard time fitting decent bullets into a magazine.

 

[RTH1800]

Agree but actually very little difference.

 

[RyanScott]

Right, the only advantage is that you can easily get 204 brass. You could make 222M brass from it, but not the reverse.

Now I’ve seen those two necked up to 6mm and that was a step in the right direction.

 

[hlee]

I already own a 1/2 dozen of them. I'm looking for something else.

Well, if the point is "different for difference sake" then you really lose out on the advantages of shooting a 22 caliber projectile. Nothing that fits in an AR15 in 224 caliber is going to be substantially different than a 223/5.56 AND be readily available/inexpensive/reloader-ready. 224 valkyrie comes close, though the ammunition is a bit more expensive. I went 224 predator, but it is a wildcat (neck down 6.5 grendel brass) but has a modest velocity advantage over the valkyrie. You could go 6.5G or 6.8SPC and have more performance than the 223, though with more expensive factory ammunition. But, your own definition of viable is "widely available inexpensively, or reloadable." Throw in "hot from an AR15. The 223/5.56 is all of them. If you are stuck on the 224 diameter projectile, the 223/5.56 is your baby. But, you want something different...

List of AR platform cartridges - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GetReal]

For the record, my other requirement is readily available / reloadable pistol - type caliber cartridges.

5.7 x 28 mm would be perfect EXC EPT the $30 / 50 rounds cost.

 

[RTH1800]

Logic says go 5.56. If you are also budget minded, logic really says go 5.56. No logic in going odd for odd sake and pinching pennies. Good luck with your project.

 

[GetReal]

Logic says go 5.56. If you are also budget minded, logic really says go 5.56. No logic in going odd for odd sake and pinching pennies. Good luck with your project.

I said already..... I've got a half dozen or more AR15 type rifles.... in 9mm, 300 BLK, 5.56, 22rf, etc .... Sig Sauers MPX /MCX , Rock Rivers, Bushmasters, etc SBR's , all with many different uppers and lowers.

I'm looking for exactly what I described..... a "hot" 22 caliber round that is also suited to pistol use. And by "pistol"I don't mean one of these bastardized rifles with a fake brace / stock. I mean a real pistol.

Anyway.... thanx.

 

[towerofpower93]

5.7

It’s reloadable and fits in a pistol. No firsthand experience with any of the 5.7 AR uppers, but it seems like this is your best bet.

 

[GetReal]

5.7

It’s reloadable and fits in a pistol. No firsthand experience with any of the 5.7 AR uppers, but it seems like this is your best bet.

it would seem so.

The little bit of reloading info I found said that with such small case capacity, you really gotta watch for overpressure.... as little as 0.2 gr over could create a bad situation .

With ammo prices currently, I'm def gonna wanna reload.

One article I just printed out: https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-17 Pearce LR1.pdf


Once fired brass: $74 / 1,000 : https://eastcoastreloading.com/5-7x28mm-fn-5-7x28mm/

Midway has dies.


The research goes on.

 

[roostercogburn98]

@GetReal thanks for that link. I reload 5.7 and seems not many others do so that makes brass cheap and easy

 

[GetReal]

@GetReal thanks for that link. I reload 5.7 and seems not many others do so that makes brass cheap and easy

Seems there's a decent supply of "once fired 5.7 x 28 brass" out there.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Dang 5.7 platforms are hard on brass though. Not sure how these new delayed radial blowback or whatever they are called will be on it. I’m all good with plentiful brass cause I will load it all.

 

[schlaiek]

have you looked into .224 Boz. in a nutshell it's 10mm necked down to 224. 50 grains @ 2500 fps.

 

[GetReal]

Dang 5.7 platforms are hard on brass though. Not sure how these new delayed radial blowback or whatever they are called will be on it. I’m all good with plentiful brass cause I will load it all.

That CMMG is what I really want, tho I got my dealer looking for a Ruger 57 pistola.

 

[GetReal]

have you looked into .224 Boz. in a nutshell it's 10mm necked down to 224. 50 grains @ 2500 fps.

I'm not wanting to get too exotic, but I'll check into it.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I’ll stick to my bolt gun. Way more fun. That Banshee is slick looking for sure though

 

[towerofpower93]

it would seem so.

The little bit of reloading info I found said that with such small case capacity, you really gotta watch for overpressure.... as little as 0.2 gr over could create a bad situation .

With ammo prices currently, I'm def gonna wanna reload.

One article I just printed out: https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-17 Pearce LR1.pdf


Once fired brass: $74 / 1,000 : https://eastcoastreloading.com/5-7x28mm-fn-5-7x28mm/

Midway has dies.


The research goes on.

Yep, have to be on your toes when reloading 5.7. I get a little over 100fps more than the FN 40gr ammo with a 40gr VMAX, same bullet they use in the factory load but with Hornady’s red tip instead of the blue they make for FN. Cases are toast after their third time being reloaded.

This is in an SBR’d PS90, which is straight blowback, so I’m not sure what CMMG’s RDB system would mean as far as case life or how much the shoulder gets blown forward.

 

[GetReal]

This is in an SBR’d PS90, which is straight blowback, so I’m not sure what CMMG’s RDB system would mean as far as case life or how much the shoulder gets blown forward.

Someone was telling me factory ammo has a special coating to Facilitate chambering and without that coating reloading the ammo is sketchy at best.

Any truth to that?

 

[roostercogburn98]

That is true. It has a proprietary coating that aids in slowing extraction down. If you fire it without that coating, you risk having serious if not catastrophic failures in the 5.7. Do not tumble the brass or try to anneal it. You are supposed to wash it in a mild mix of simple geeen and water and air dry it.

 

[MarinePMI]

5.7 Spitfire. The original .22 pistol caliber conversion...

 

[towerofpower93]

That is true. It has a proprietary coating that aids in slowing extraction down. If you fire it without that coating, you risk having serious if not catastrophic failures in the 5.7. Do not tumble the brass or try to anneal it. You are supposed to wash it in a mild mix of simple geeen and water and air dry it.

Id always heard the coating on the brass was needed for the P90 mag to function and that it wasn't a must if using the FiveseveN pistol, but I sold my FiveseveN before I started reloading 5.7 so I'm not able to verify brass with the coating tumbled off will work in the traditional pistol magazine.

I do a gentle wet wash in hot water and simple green after decapping then rinse with lots of hot water and allow them to air dry. After resizing I do a short 15min tumble in corn cob media to remove the case lube.

 

[towerofpower93]

5.7 Spitfire. The original .22 pistol caliber conversion...

Pretty cool little cartridge I'd never heard of. Seems like the glut of M1 carbines in the 60s-90s lead to a ton of wildcatting and/or caliber conversions on those things.

 

[roostercogburn98]

The coating is multipurpose and aids if feeding and extracting as well as delaying unlocking. I don’t use the lacquer but my gun isn’t a delayed blowback either. I tumble my rounds and they will work with the coating degraded/gone in my application BUT I wouldn’t chance my digits with that round in a handgun platform. I have seen pictures of that gun exploded and the explanation was screwed up timing in the unlock process. They blamed it on failure of the lacquer coating. On that note, I take everything I see or read on the internet with the fact I only know what is being typed and not the whole story.

 

[GetReal]

The more I think about it the more I am going to hold off on this caliber until ammo prices come down and I can just buy factory stuff in bulk at reasonable prices.

 

[Yondering]

22 TCM ammo is about half the price of the 5.7; I bought a 100 rd box for ~$30.

But if your goal is a real pistol, that's not an AR, just get the FN or Ruger 5.7 pistols. Trying to convert an AR to a pistol caliber doesn't make it any more functional as a pistol, it just makes it an underpowered rifle, even if you leave the arm brace or stock off and try to shoot it one handed.

Or just get a P90 and SBR it, since that's the only platform (larger than a handgun) where the 5.7 really fits well.

I will admit I've wanted one of the RIA 22 TCM / 9mm convertible 1911 pistols for a fun gun though. Not much practical purpose for me personally, but they'd be fun to mess around with. Wishing I'd bought one before this ridiculous law went into effect in WA last year.

 

[Ravenworks]

Seems there's a decent supply of "once fired 5.7 x 28 brass" out there.

Good reason for that if you are shooting an actual FN pistol.

The coating on the brass makes a difference.
There is a lot of information out there about this if one decides to take up reloading Five-Seven.

 

[hlee]

Using a mag with the footprint of an AR15 mag, to shoot an anemic 22 caliber bullet, from an AR15 doesn't make any sense to me. At least not if it's not 22lr. And, especially not if it's more expensive to buy and to load than 5.56. But, you do you.

 

[GetReal]

Using a mag with the footprint of an AR15 mag, to shoot an anemic 22 caliber bullet, from an AR15 doesn't make any sense to me. At least not if it's not 22lr. And, especially not if it's more expensive to buy and to load than 5.56. But, you do you.

I have no interest in persuading you to want what I want. Or convincing you of anything.

But thanx for your permission to do what I want.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The .22TCM is a great little cartridge.
RIA was going to make an AR15 for it, but I'm not sure if it ever got into production due to lack of demand.

As far as something that is readily available and fits a "traditional" standard pistol and is .22 Cal and easy to reload, easy to shoot it's hard to beat.

You could make an AR15 for it pretty easy, either full sized or scaled down.
You'd want to find something that was setup to have an action length sufficient for 10mm and then change the boltface / extractor to .223 and then of course a custom barrel and decide on what magazine you want to go with for the setup.

If you set it up to use the double stack RIA mags, it would be an interesting combo with a double stack 1911 pistol, a bolt action gun and an AR15 that could all use the same magazines and ammunition.

The one thing about the 1911 pistol version is that it's incredibly easy to shoot and the slide can be cycled with minimal energy.
Just don't shoot even the hollow points at soft steel targets anywhere close, you'll be buying new targets. 2000fps from the handgun and 2650 from the rifle do bad things to soft pistol caliber rated steel.

 

[roostercogburn98]

5.7 ammo can still be had at decent prices if you shop around. Usually works best to buy in bulk when you find it cheap. Reloading is tedious for those platforms, but not impossible so don’t rule it out just yet. It is a neat round with limited use but still seems to hold peoples attention for some reason.

 

[GetReal]

The .22TCM is a great little cartridge.
RIA was going to make an AR15 for it, but I'm not sure if it ever got into production due to lack of demand.

CMMG sells a great 9 mm conversion mag for Their 9 mm AR.

I bet that could be made to work for an AR barrel chambered in 22 TCM.

That and the RIA 45 conversion would be a great 2 gun combination

 

[GetReal]

5.7 ammo can still be had at decent prices if you shop around. Usually works best to buy in bulk when you find it cheap. Reloading is tedious for those platforms, but not impossible so don’t rule it out just yet. It is a neat round with limited use but still seems to hold peoples attention for some reason.

I really can't find any 5.7 right now. And I looked pretty much everywhere.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Have you ruled out a rimfire? What about a 17HMR in an AR upper, and they make quite a few 22 WMR pistols. Not exactly reloadable but fairly inexpensive.

 

[roostercogburn98]

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/10700019

about 63 cents a round here

 

[Ravenworks]

Wow,I was just looking at sgammo.com and can't believe what they are charging.
It's almost double from last year glad that I bought a bunch.

 

[GetReal]

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/10700019

about 63 cents a round here

Too rich for my blood.

 

[GetReal]

Have you ruled out a rimfire? What about a 17HMR in an AR upper, and they make quite a few 22 WMR pistols. Not exactly reloadable but fairly inexpensive.

They make 22 WMR in an AR platform ?

 

[GetReal]

Have you ruled out a rimfire? What about a 17HMR in an AR upper, and they make quite a few 22 WMR pistols. Not exactly reloadable but fairly inexpensive.

.22 cal minimum.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Sorry got that last post mixed up in rifle/ pistol. I want to say I have read tale of an ar in 22 win mag. Maybe someone can come along and say for sure but I’m sure I read something about it once.

 

[Yondering]

CMMG sells a great 9 mm conversion mag for Their 9 mm AR.

I bet that could be made to work for an AR barrel chambered in 22 TCM.

That and the RIA 45 conversion would be a great 2 gun combination

Most 9mm magazines are too short for standard 22 TCM ammo. It uses a shortened 223 case at the same OAL as the 45 ACP and 10mm - 1.260" vs 1.170" for the 9mm. You'd want to start with a magazine and magwell designed for the longer OAL.

You could set it up for the 22 TCMr ammo for 9mm mags, but that's even more restrictive in a cartridge that already has to use special bullets to fit in the mags. Those use a bullet that is basically a short .22 round nose, and the difference in b.c. and resulting velocity/power will be noticeable at even 100 yards.