I'm debating between an SP10 complete from seekins or the receiver set with a premium barrel (bartlein, rock creek or JP). I don't expect 1/2 moa from a gasser, but I do want sub MOA. Is that achievable with the seekins barrel?
How accurate have SP10 been out of the box?
- Thread starter Winny94
- Start date
I just recently got my 6.5 SP-10 and I am super happy with it. I need to go back and shoot for groups but I was sub-MOA with it. Take a look at my posts about my rifle at the link below. Also, I think Seekins uses Rock Creek barrels.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bullet-speeds-in-6-5cm-sp-10.6897762/
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bullet-speeds-in-6-5cm-sp-10.6897762/
Still breaking in bbl. So far, it is shooting real well. Haven't shot 5 shot groups but with 20 rounds down tube I am sure it shoots less than 1 MOA.
Well it's a parts gun. For the same money you can build an absolute hammer built around a tier 1 barrel like barlien/Krieger/lija/jp along with JP components.
It's because most people can't shoot an AR10 worth a damn
People who do, and can, have excellent results with Seekins.
Accuracy with an AR10 platform is not always cut and dry, there is a lot of "shooter" involved. You can't fake it like you can with a bolt action rifle.
People who do, and can, have excellent results with Seekins.
Accuracy with an AR10 platform is not always cut and dry, there is a lot of "shooter" involved. You can't fake it like you can with a bolt action rifle.
I have a Seekins SP10 18" .308 Win. Mine prefers the 175 grain variety. Prime is the best shooter out of it and gave me a 5 shot group at 100 yards around 1/2 moa. Federal Gold Medal Match was .6-.7 moa. Frank is 100% correct though. Gas guns don't lie and I'll be the first to tell you I can't produce those groups on demand most days. I have no doubts about the gun though. Exceptionally accurate for sure.
its 99% the same. the only difference is that the barrel is permanently fixed to the upper.
It's a lot more than that - checkout the first video you posted. Much more hand fitting, different gas block, different barrels, etc.
Yep shit moves everywhere.
Newton takes over....shit in motion......equal and opposite reactions......at some point the objects come to rest but when they do everyone's first question is "What's wrong with my rifle?"
Well it's not the rifle.
You're splitting hairs, it's essentially the exact same components that are put together by either Glen or one other, they come off the same line and go through extra QC because of the contracts and use, but it's really no different.
The SP10 and SP10M are the same, the barrels are not different, they all come off the same line, the gas blocks too.
HELLO,
Barrel PROFILE .... that is the same barrel, how the hell does a profile change the accuracy?
there is only ONE, Read it 1 barrel machine at Seekins
The gas block might be different, but I am sure you can get the same one, I have not seen them keep one them off the market because it is on the M series
Barrel PROFILE .... that is the same barrel, how the hell does a profile change the accuracy?
there is only ONE, Read it 1 barrel machine at Seekins
The gas block might be different, but I am sure you can get the same one, I have not seen them keep one them off the market because it is on the M series
This is 100%. That,,, and reloading / finding a bullet the rifle likes to shoot makes a HUGE difference. Bullet selection can cut a group size in half easy. Every single time I see someone say they shoot 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups every time they pull the trigger “all day long” with a large cartridge semi auto = I smell BS. There is a reason I had to split SEMI away from BOLT action with their own boards when doing the 6x5 threads. Also, it is MUCH harder to shoot a 308 semi auto in comparison to a 223 semi auto. As for semi auto, the larger the cartridge, the larger the bolt = harder it is to shoot.
PS I have close up pictures of the SP10M and it has the same gas block advertised, I dropped Glen a note to clarify it, but it's the same from everything I can see.
Both say adjustable and there is only 1 Adjustable gas block I can see ... and the images is the same. I see no difference
Looks the same to me
Both say adjustable and there is only 1 Adjustable gas block I can see ... and the images is the same. I see no difference
Looks the same to me
Dude, WTF.,
Upgrade to the lever one or use the Allen adjustable, you are splitting hairs
You can get Either just change it, it's splitting hairs if you think one will have that big an effect over the other.
He Offers BOTH, you just have to pay for the more expensive one
Upgrade to the lever one or use the Allen adjustable, you are splitting hairs
You can get Either just change it, it's splitting hairs if you think one will have that big an effect over the other.
He Offers BOTH, you just have to pay for the more expensive one
Why would any sane person want an SP10M vs an SP10, there is a 3x cost difference, there is a maintenance program, all things normal people don't need.
The M is a contract gun, the Military, and LE ... you can build one the same but why bond it ?
Not like one is off the market for you vs the other, you can get EITHER
The M is a contract gun, the Military, and LE ... you can build one the same but why bond it ?
Not like one is off the market for you vs the other, you can get EITHER
People are fucking ridiculous with this shit as if...
They have a $2550 rifle and then bitch because one is 2x as much and they claim the BARREL Profile is different, the gas block is the $60 vs the $120 one, so order the $120 model, ask for a different profile, you can spec it.
The SP10 works great, it's super accurate, it's the base rifle for the GAP10, it's a proven winner on so many levels.
Add in $60 and order the other block, LOL D'uh.
Unbelievable what people will bitch about, oh, I had to use an Allen vs the lever, it's different, the M is $3800+ the non-M is $2550, add in $60 and change the block, you still win by a wide margin.
Glen uses Rock Creek Barrels, they both have a Rock Creek Barrel on them, one is a slightly heavier profile, BFD
They have a $2550 rifle and then bitch because one is 2x as much and they claim the BARREL Profile is different, the gas block is the $60 vs the $120 one, so order the $120 model, ask for a different profile, you can spec it.
The SP10 works great, it's super accurate, it's the base rifle for the GAP10, it's a proven winner on so many levels.
Add in $60 and order the other block, LOL D'uh.
Unbelievable what people will bitch about, oh, I had to use an Allen vs the lever, it's different, the M is $3800+ the non-M is $2550, add in $60 and change the block, you still win by a wide margin.
Glen uses Rock Creek Barrels, they both have a Rock Creek Barrel on them, one is a slightly heavier profile, BFD
If you split enough hairs, they add up to the difference between a $2K rifle and $4K rifle. My question was how accurate has the SP10 been out of the box for the average shooter, and i was pointed to a video of an above average shooter shooting a superior version of the rifle I am interested in. I was merely pointing out those results would not be very indicative of what I should expect. Im not bitching about anything. Heavier profile barrel, superior gas system, permanently affixed barrel all would lean towards a more consistent, smooth & accurate rifle. I never said i wanted the M series - if i wanted to spend $3800 on an AR, I'd buy a GAP or JP.
FWIW, you cannot spec out anything on the SP10, even if that's an option I wanted to take.
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D
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In my experience, average shooters shoot just about average....so what would they know?
Just go away, you're annoying as fuck,
I shot K&M alongside Glen with the SP10 years before the M series and the bonded system, and he shot the Colville Match with the same thing an SP10, non M... the guns flat out shoot.
The M series brand new, why because the military wanted it a specific way and hand spec'd it for a contract, but they used and based it off the SP10. if that rifle did not work they would have gone to a different company. (And Seekins has the contract) They have a different mission than your average shooter, other custom AR10s don't rely on the same type of upgrades to be accurate why would this one only work if you do all the bonding?
Build it right, with good parts and drive on, it's not that hard.
if it's that important to you, build it, he sells all the parts you need to do it yourself, which is what he says, lego guns. I have no clue why you can't spec it, maybe he stopped but I was under the impression you can order one and change it, if he does not offer that, try a dealer I bet a dealer can order a run with the adjustable blocks. The only thing superior is the lever vs the Allen, do you honestly think they are not using the same tech just in a different design?
Oh my god I have to use an Allen I can't throw the lever, forget it, waste of time. LOL Set it, get the timing, and move on down the road.
I shot K&M alongside Glen with the SP10 years before the M series and the bonded system, and he shot the Colville Match with the same thing an SP10, non M... the guns flat out shoot.
The M series brand new, why because the military wanted it a specific way and hand spec'd it for a contract, but they used and based it off the SP10. if that rifle did not work they would have gone to a different company. (And Seekins has the contract) They have a different mission than your average shooter, other custom AR10s don't rely on the same type of upgrades to be accurate why would this one only work if you do all the bonding?
Build it right, with good parts and drive on, it's not that hard.
if it's that important to you, build it, he sells all the parts you need to do it yourself, which is what he says, lego guns. I have no clue why you can't spec it, maybe he stopped but I was under the impression you can order one and change it, if he does not offer that, try a dealer I bet a dealer can order a run with the adjustable blocks. The only thing superior is the lever vs the Allen, do you honestly think they are not using the same tech just in a different design?
Oh my god I have to use an Allen I can't throw the lever, forget it, waste of time. LOL Set it, get the timing, and move on down the road.
I just got my sp10 on moday. Tuesday, I ran out to get a super quick zero at 50 just for the sake of being able to shoot it. Today I had more time to actually get my 100 zero, along with 200, and 300 data. I basically have zero experience with a large frame semi's until I bought the scar17 in May. I only have a few hundred rounds thru that and 129 thru my sp10. I didn't shoot for groups yet, but I can tell you the potential is there, but the limiting factor is definitely the shooter. With a bolt gun, I'm pissed if all 5 aren't touching inside a dime at 100. I was struggling to keep 3 shot groups under 1.25moa today. I did get a few tight groups, but not because I was being proficient and consistent. I'd have 3-4 kinda tight, then when I broke form to reload a mag, I wasn't able to replicate the results. There is a lot more movement in the system than a bolt gun. I couldn't get a good check weld shot to shot because the damn thing kept squirming around backwards and then forwards under me lol.
long story short, I can see the potential ounce I learn how to ride the recoil better.
long story short, I can see the potential ounce I learn how to ride the recoil better.
Easily sub MOA. I was initially dissapointed with my SP-10 as I hovered around 0.9 to 1.1 MOA. Then I had someone show me how to shoot it. It is regularly a 0.75 MOA gun. But the person who showed me what it is capable of was getting to 0.5.
I'm making a range trip tomorrow and I'll see what kind of groups I can post up.
I'm making a range trip tomorrow and I'll see what kind of groups I can post up.
My take away from Lowlight’s first video is that all of Seekins parts are good and within tight specs, but the M Series guns get the choice of those parts before they go out on the production floor.
Optimal parts hand fitted and assembled by 2 or 3 guys that really, really know the job and have a very specific assembly procedure have the capability to produce amazing firearms.
This is the difference between a pro stock drag engine or a NASCAR racing engine where every part is gone over by hand, massaged and fitted to perfection compared to the engine in your pickup truck.
The other large part of the cost is the paperwork and certifications to produce a product for the government, it ain’t cheap to work for Uncle Sugar.
Optimal parts hand fitted and assembled by 2 or 3 guys that really, really know the job and have a very specific assembly procedure have the capability to produce amazing firearms.
This is the difference between a pro stock drag engine or a NASCAR racing engine where every part is gone over by hand, massaged and fitted to perfection compared to the engine in your pickup truck.
The other large part of the cost is the paperwork and certifications to produce a product for the government, it ain’t cheap to work for Uncle Sugar.
Just got back from the range. I think the below illustrates a few of the points being made in this thread: gas guns are more difficult to be consistent with and the SP10 is a very accurate rifle. As others have said, there's a lot of mass being thrown around. More so with a 308 than 223 so it's no surprise I am more consistent with my 223 'yote AR. About the only thing I use this rifle for is hogs. Lots and lots of hogs usually within 100 yards so I am not accustomed to using it as the precision machinery that it is. I love this rifle.
The drill here is: 3 shots, come off the gun, drop the mag, load 3 more and repeat. Started clockwise from upper left. Groups measure 1.08, 0.48, 1.08, 0.235. Ammo is from a lot of Copper Creek 175 SMK gas gun loads I got some years back. I know some of y'all will cringe at the inconsistency. But it's an honest assessment of what happens with a great rifle comes together with someone who is not well practiced with a gas gun.
EDIT: I am out of the 168 TSX hog load that it shoots better than the 175 SMKs. If I can get some loaded up I'll do another accuracy test.
The drill here is: 3 shots, come off the gun, drop the mag, load 3 more and repeat. Started clockwise from upper left. Groups measure 1.08, 0.48, 1.08, 0.235. Ammo is from a lot of Copper Creek 175 SMK gas gun loads I got some years back. I know some of y'all will cringe at the inconsistency. But it's an honest assessment of what happens with a great rifle comes together with someone who is not well practiced with a gas gun.
EDIT: I am out of the 168 TSX hog load that it shoots better than the 175 SMKs. If I can get some loaded up I'll do another accuracy test.
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Pretty much what I was experiencing with mine yesterday, couple good groups, couple not so good groups.
My SP10 shoots about 3/4 MOA with Hornady Match 120gr, 1 MOA with Prime 130 (might be better, haven't shot it on paper in a while), and have gotten down to 5/8 with handloads. (all 5 shot groups, prone w/ bipod and bag) I started out with about 1-1.5 moa groups and like others have said, it definitely takes some work to shoot a gas gun well. I've been working on it and starting to tighten things up.
On the lever adjustable gas block, it doesn't look like it is a matter of just swapping out gas blocks, the standard adjustable gas block sits back about 1.5" from the end of the handguard. Comparing it to Frank's photo above, it looks like the SP10M must have either a shorter handguard or a longer gas system length.
Lever adjustable gas block held in place for comparison, you can see the standard gas block set back under the handguard.
On the lever adjustable gas block, it doesn't look like it is a matter of just swapping out gas blocks, the standard adjustable gas block sits back about 1.5" from the end of the handguard. Comparing it to Frank's photo above, it looks like the SP10M must have either a shorter handguard or a longer gas system length.
Lever adjustable gas block held in place for comparison, you can see the standard gas block set back under the handguard.
I might be tempted by the M model if I could find a way to get one of those 30% off coupons I've heard about here at SH. Mile High only offered a 10% LE discount. without a steep discount, I tend to agree with Frank --
Speaking from experience, the coupons won’t work for the SP10M. They are sold only by mile high, Seekins wouldn’t honor the coupon for the SP10M for me. I bought a Valkyrie and the sp10 in 6.5 Creedmoor, I’m happy with both purchases. Still working on loads for the Valkyrie.
I spoke with Matty at SHOT yesterday, the M has a longer gas system (at least in the 6.5 and 6mm versions), cut rifling (Rock Creek), a different buffer spring, and gas block. You can get them to tune it for the ammo and suppressor you want to use before it leaves the shop, even spec the barrel length and trigger. Hand built, hand tuned, performance guarantee, and a warranty that covers it should you accidentally destroy it.
Or, more simply put, it is not simply an off the shelf SP10 w/ different gas block...
Watch our website tomorrow, we'll have a nice surprise for those wanting a Seekins.....
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