Rifle Scopes How critical is range finding ability?

[Jedi5150]

How crucial is it that the scope be able to help with range estimation? I'm sure it depends on your intended uses so I'll tell you mine. I have a Remington 700 XCR Compact Tactical (.308 Win with 20" barrel). I'm not high speed, low drag, and I'm new to the long range shooting world. I'm not made of money so my rifle has to be a sort of "jack of all trades", for all the uses I could have for a bolt gun. I have a local range with paper targets to 200 yards and a gong at 325. If I drive a bit I may be able to get to a 800 yard range which I'd like to check out.

I'm not a hunter, but I'd like my rifle to be set up decently for backpacking/ hunting if I ever decided to do it. In short, I'm sort of trying to set my rifle up in a "Scout rifle-Heavy" type role. A multi-purpose rig that comes in a couple pounds over Cooper's suggested weight. After much reading on this site as well as research on my own and talking to friends (who know more than me

), I've decided on the scope. I'm buying a Nightforce 2.5-10x32. After a phone call to Nightforce today, I've even narrowed it down to two reticle/ turret options. I'm going to go with either the Mil-Dot/ .1 MRAD turret or the LV veloctity reticle with .25 MOA turrets. I can easily get the LV reticle'd scope within a short driving distance. I have amazingly found a place that has TWO of this scope with the Mil dot/ .1 MRAD's in stock (most places they are backordered a long ways out).

So I guess my descision really boils down to, for my intended uses, how crucial is the ability to estimate range with the reticle (My undertanding and assumption is that you cannot do this with the velocity reticle). I don't want to carry or buy a laser range finder. I've got to admit, I really like the looks of the velocity reticle, but the little bit of playing with range estimation I did with a previous mil dot scope was fun as well.

Sorry for the long rambling. I'd appreciate any suggestions.

 

[vtb]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

zero scope on 25-200 metes and it will give you ~10 cm high at 100 meters and ~10 cm low at 300 meters.
So it will be in vital zone of your target from 25 to 300 meters.

range findig ability is nice but for me reticle should give the possibility to shoot with holdover.

PS.
if you have distance between horizontal lines in your LV reticle and you know the size of this distance in MOA - you still can estimate range - though not as easy as with mil-dot based reticle.

 

[marduk185]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

for your limited use buy what you like and then when u decide you wanna be able to play longer buy a lrf.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

In the hunting world you will not use your reticle for range finding. You will want a LRF for that. Reason why, at the distance you need to start ranging for your shot an error of 20-30 yards off and you either miss or made a less than desirable hit. This is compounded with the fact that not two deer, elk or coyote are of known size. Approx size yes, but not the exact size necessary for a solid distance solution. Also, rarely will they hold still long enough and perfectly angled to get a good measurement even if you knew their size. Now you will use hold over/under on many occasions.

One thing I HAVE found very useful with a ranging reticle when teamed up with a LRF is you can get a good idea of rack size. This will let you know if that deer at 800 yards is worth closing in on to take a shot.

For target shooting at the range I use my reticle all the time for wind hold offs. But I all ready know what distance my targets are at. Now if you are setting up targets where ever you want and know there size, you certainly can have some fun doing the math and taking the shot to see how well you did. Or, shooting comps where it maybe a requirement. Personally I stay away from BDC style reticles and favor MOA or MIL just because I don’t need yet another measurement in my head to think about… but that’s me. FWIW, if I were buying a NF 2.5-10 I’d go with either the mil or NP-R2 and stick with matching turrets… necessary, no but it just makes it a little easier in more than one way.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

For tactical matches if you plan on getting into them, sometimes you are forced to have do range estimation with only your scopes reticle!

Most of the time owning a range finder will solve that problem.

But in the end you probably need to know and be able to do both.

If you need to learn how to do range estimation this will help!

Range estimation training set
http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Range_Estimation_Training_Set_RETS_p/i-rets.htm

 

[SScott]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi5150</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How crucial is it that the scope be able to help with range estimation? I'm sure it depends on your intended uses so I'll tell you mine. I have a Remington 700 XCR Compact Tactical (.308 Win with 20" barrel). I'm not high speed, low drag, and I'm new to the long range shooting world. I'm not made of money so my rifle has to be a sort of "jack of all trades", for all the uses I could have for a bolt gun. I have a local range with paper targets to 200 yards and a gong at 325. If I drive a bit I may be able to get to a 800 yard range which I'd like to check out.

I'm not a hunter, but I'd like my rifle to be set up decently for backpacking/ hunting if I ever decided to do it. In short, I'm sort of trying to set my rifle up in a "Scout rifle-Heavy" type role. A multi-purpose rig that comes in a couple pounds over Cooper's suggested weight. After much reading on this site as well as research on my own and talking to friends (who know more than me

), I've decided on the scope. I'm buying a Nightforce 2.5-10x32. After a phone call to Nightforce today, I've even narrowed it down to two reticle/ turret options. I'm going to go with either the Mil-Dot/ .1 MRAD turret or the LV veloctity reticle with .25 MOA turrets. I can easily get the LV reticle'd scope within a short driving distance. <span style="color: #990000">I have amazingly found a place that has TWO </span>of this scope with the Mil dot/ .1 MRAD's in stock (most places they are backordered a long ways out).

So I guess my descision really boils down to, for my intended uses, how crucial is the ability to estimate range with the reticle (My undertanding and assumption is that you cannot do this with the velocity reticle). I don't want to carry or buy a laser range finder. I've got to admit, I really like the looks of the velocity reticle, but the little bit of playing with range estimation I did with a previous mil dot scope was fun as well.

Sorry for the long rambling. I'd appreciate any suggestions. </div></div>


It looks like you have already made your mind up. I think you might get tired of a low powered scope in a short time. Although a 10X will get the job done, I would look more to the 15X or so range.
I like having too much scope and powering down if needed.
Good luck on your purchase,
SScott

 

[Jedi5150]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

I thank everyone for your responses. Niles and Nomad, I particularly appreciate the info on use in a hunting environment and tactical matches. That is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.

 

[224Man]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

With low rings the 3.5-15 Nightforce would be a very nice setup for your intended use. The larger objective will be a great aid in low light situations and you will be less likely to outgrow the scope and end up buying an upgrade down the road. The 3.5 MLR scope with .1 mrad turrets will also have the most retained value for lowest cost of ownership if you sell it some day.

 

[Swift]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

Most reticles and calculations of a target at an unknown distance always rely on the shooter knowing the exact size of a target. Hunting isn't the optimal place for it but if you're shooting tac matches with multiple targets at unknown distances, then the reticle will be a huge help.

In my experience, if you wish to build a jack-of-all-trades rifle, I would prioritize. What sort of shooting will you do MOST? Don't build a rifle geared towards hunting if you're only going to hunt once in a blue moon. Tailor it to what you will use it for the most and just keep the other POUs in mind so it doesn't get too far in one direction or the other.

I have a Savage 10 with a B&C Medalist Tac and a Nikon Monarch scope. It maintains good weight and balance for dragging through the woods, but also loads up a bipod from prone well, too. I think the key is not to go crazy trying to outfit it with all these different things. I'm sure GAP rifles (sans the GAP10) could serve equally well in a hunting scenario (depending on barrel contour) as LR shooting because they keep it simple.

 

[sscoyote]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

Once u learn the math behind rangefinding u'll easily see that any multi-stadia reticle can be used for that purpose, often more accurately than the mil-dot.

It's all based on the mil-ranging formula including downrange zeroing reference with reticle ot turret.

 

[thewileyone]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

+1 Niles Coyote comments...

LRF's are nice and there are times that you need one for range work but usually time is not of the essence and you will have time to guestimate ranges... depending on what you are planning on shooting, you did not mention any competition shooting. For hunting, you will definitely want a LRF. For paper shooting at 500 or more, you want more magnification quickly but for hunting 10x will be enough for a long time. I would recommend a larger objective than 32mm also, bigger objective allows more light in.

NF makes awesome optics, good choice there.

 

[felderthewelder]

Re: How critical is range finding ability?

I don't like BDC reticles on a bolt gun. The reticle is going to end up only being approx when you do your load development. Then it is going to change when you go to different altitudes and environments. With a little shooting you will be able to recognize your holds with a mil or moa reticle.

I would go with matching reticle and turrets. Either mil or moa. Whatever you find is easier to use.

Range finding gets more critical the farther you go.