How do you find distances for long range shots in night?

[harry_x1]

Hi,
I just bought a new clip on night vision device (eotech) for my AI chambered in 338 lapua.

My aim is to take 1000+ yard shorts in the night. I believe the clip on night vision will be able to identify targets at extended ranges with correct IR illuminator. However one question I have not found an answer to, is how to find distance to targets in the night? Is my only option to use inbuilt reticle in the scope or are there smarter/betters devices/solutions? I do have a laser range finder, but not sure if that can work in the night.


thanks
harjeet

 

[rtB]

Laser range finders do not work at night. How could they, there is no sunshine for the laser to reflect off of.

 

[Curahee19]

Wilcox raptar. And range finders do work at night. All of mine have ranged further at night then during the day. You just got to zero it to your spotting scope or day scope reticle

 

[rtB]

Definitely zero to your spotting scope, the reticle in your day scope will be way off at night.

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

As a laser transits the atmosphere, it is reflected off the light rays being transmitted from the sun to the earth. Depending on the latitude of the laser, the internal computer of the laser computes the lateral distance of the rays of the sun versus your physical position on on the earth and calculates the pi mod lat difference between the two.

So no, lasers don't work at night.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Laser range finders do not work at night. How could they, there is no sunshine for the laser to reflect off of.

No offense but you're kidding right... lrf's have a tendency to work better at night as there is less ir interference from sunlight. I have an swr Radius and it's effective ranging distance is increased at night.

Op you can walk a handheld onto your target using nods which isn't the greatest thing but does work. As stated above a Wilcox or if you can get your hands on a Radius these can serve you well.

Take your handheld out at night and start lazing, you will find it works just as well if not better at night, only problem is seeing thru the viewfinder, however this whole thing about lasers not working at night is just wrong.

Op you coul get much better answers and feedback if you posted this in the NV subforum from folks who have actual xp using these types of gear. I myself ran a pvs 30 and a radius for some time and others have much more than myself.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Definitely zero to your spotting scope, the reticle in your day scope will be way off at night.

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

As a laser transits the atmosphere, it is reflected off the light rays being transmitted from the sun to the earth. Depending on the latitude of the laser, the internal computer of the laser computes the lateral distance of the rays of the sun versus your physical position on on the earth and calculates the pi mod lat difference between the two.

So no, lasers don't work at night.

This dosen't match my experience or anything I've read.

Laser rangefinders – How do they work? Which one should you choose?

Laser rangefinders – How do they work? Which one should you choose?

www.tme.eu

The challenge of using one at night is being able aim it at your target and/ or reading the results. A LRF that you can weapon mount and zero to your night vision scope are one way. You can use day LRF units, but if you look through them and can't see aiming point, target or reading of distance, then what?

Remember from a tactical standpoint, using a LRF can give away your location, just like using an IR Laser if others have NV, so you want it to be just a fast check, not fumbling around.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Laser range finders do not work at night. How could they, there is no sunshine for the laser to reflect off of.

Ummm, wot?

 

[TheGerman]

Wilcox RAPTAR

Slaved PLRF

PLRF15 with NV adapter

Vectronix Moskito

Illuminated target ranged via reticle

 

[Fig]

Light waves have no reflective properties and pass right through each other….

 

[candyx]

Definitely zero to your spotting scope, the reticle in your day scope will be way off at night.

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

As a laser transits the atmosphere, it is reflected off the light rays being transmitted from the sun to the earth. Depending on the latitude of the laser, the internal computer of the laser computes the lateral distance of the rays of the sun versus your physical position on on the earth and calculates the pi mod lat difference between the two.

So no, lasers don't work at night.

What about Alaska at night when its bright as day .....

 

[shoots100]

What about Alaska at night when its bright as day .....

Just poke a hole in your night vision obj lens cover, so you can use it during the day !!!!

 

[GreenMushroom]

The cheap way is to use your daytime range finder. My leica has a constant on feature if you hold one of the buttons down but I don't know about other brands. Hold the rangefinder up to the eye not covered with your pvs14 so you can see the read out on rangefinder. You will be able to see the laser through your 14. With a little practice I've found I'm pretty close to start and it's easy to walk the laser onto the target.

 

[CoryT]

TheGerman missed one,
Make a range card during the day.

Either a rail mounted LRF or a LRF with night vision adapter or built in tube. For an individual, the rail mounted system is most user friendly, with a team either system works fine.

 

[cake5150]

I use a SWR Radius mounted to the rifle or spotting scope, it works great and will range out to absurd distances in low/no light. There were also a bunch of Northrop Grumman MkVII NV-equipped laser rangefinders that hit the market over the last year or so. I didn't buy one because they look enormous, use a weird battery, and pretty sure only measure in meters (could be wrong on that last part).

 

[Nate60x]

Radius works great

 

[6.5SH]

Is a Radius in the PX, guessing price is why it hasn't sold, but they aren't made anymore.

 

[Curahee19]

Yes Wilcox makes a 8000 dollar rangefinder with a shitty illuminator for it not to work at night. Btw any one know any adapter to use the plrf 25 with a Pvs 14

 

[CoryT]

Yes, there is an adapter for the PLRF, pretty sure it's the same for all models. I've got one Vector adapter coming, let me check and see if a PLRF unit is available.

Just looked, EuroOptic has them supposedly in stock.

Vectronix PLRF25C Night Vision Adapter AN/PVS14 909487

FREE SHIPPING on Vectronix PLRF25C Night Vision Adapter AN/PVS14 909487

www.eurooptic.com

 

[ma smith]

My aim is to take 1000+ yard shorts in the night.

First round hits or do you plan to read wind or see splash etc...?

 

[harry_x1]

First round hits or do you plan to read wind or see splash etc...?

As of now I am getting first shot hits at 1000-1500 yards with handloads and easy wind days. Prefer to maintain same level, if i can

 

[wigwamitus]

laser's don't work at night !! (Don't tell the laws of physics that !! )

RIfle mounted LASER range finders work great at night ... but so do regular old handheld laser range finders. PVS-14 on one eye, hold up LRF to the other eye, press the fire button on the LRF and walk the laser onto the target using the 14 to see the IR laser in the LRF.
Read the distance off the LRF with your unaided eye. That works out to about 500yds depending on the situation and can be enhanced by using 3x USGI magnifier on the 14.
If using dual 14s, flip one of the out, so you're just using one and have the second eye open to look at the display in the LRF. I've been doing that for 9-ish years and still use this technique !

 

[wigwamitus]

And yes, laser range finders work WAY better on most nights ... I get 1km with the radius in the day and 3kms at night.

With the RAPTARs its 2kms in the day and 5kms at night.

 

[wigwamitus]

... As of now I am getting first shot hits at 1000-1500 yards with handloads and easy wind days. Prefer to maintain same level, if i can ...

The big problem will be seeing the targets (it's dark at night) ...

Assuming you can see the target, the next problem will be wind calls are tougher due to reduced visual clues.

I've shot farther than 900yds at night, but these days, that's plenty ... 500yds is a loooong way at night, to hit a target like a yote.

 

[Jgunner]

Radius works great.

At night? Whatever you think is “far”, cut it in half and you’ll still be in the long range category. 300 yards can be a struggle with good gear, unless its a metal plate that doesn’t run off. Then 500 is easy.
Using thermals, short barreled ar’s we have tried 800~ but with wind calls and very light bullets, it was pointless. Danced all around it. Now, something better in the wind than a 40 gr .224? Yes, prob back to “easy”.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

First rounds hits may be the goal, but walking it in, may be the reality. Wind tends to be calmer at night, but as said, it is harder to judge. Seeing impacts is much harder as well IMO.

If you have a spotter, and if you are using IR illumination, you may be able to see IR light reflected off the back of the bullet in flight to see where it goes.

Don't forget the old school using your reticle or my favorite, a map.

We take topographic maps and fill them with known diseases to lots of landmarks. Nothing like knowing your back yard

 

[harry_x1]

Definitely zero to your spotting scope, the reticle in your day scope will be way off at night.

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

As a laser transits the atmosphere, it is reflected off the light rays being transmitted from the sun to the earth. Depending on the latitude of the laser, the internal computer of the laser computes the lateral distance of the rays of the sun versus your physical position on on the earth and calculates the pi mod lat difference between the two.

So no, lasers don't work at night.

You seem to be a real professional with very "deep" knowledge on this subject. I am so lucky to meet helpful and knowledgeable people like you on this forum. But I am a bit confused by one thing, and may be you can help me understand. How does the Laser device or its internal computer know its position on the earth?

 

[brianf]

I can’t believe anyone is taking this seriously.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

You seem to be a real professional with very "deep" knowledge on this subject. I am so lucky to meet helpful and knowledgeable people like you on this forum. But I am a bit confused by one thing, and may be you can help me understand. How does the Laser device or its internal computer know its position on the earth?

I am no expert, but I'll share my understanding
of it and perhaps someone more qualified will chime in.

Think of it this way, if I throw a ball at a wall, it bounces back and I catch it. The longer it takes the ball to make the trip, the farther away the wall is.

More technical is the laser pulse travels a distance and then hits something causing a reflection seen by the LRF. So a LRF is both a transmitter and a receiver. It measures the time between sending the pulse and receiving the reflection very precisely.

This happens very quickly, so even if it appears to us, a solid beam is being sent out, it is really strobing so quickly we can't tell.

Some LRF also have internal GPS and give information like direction and angle, but that is not part of the range finding function.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

You seem to be a real professional with very "deep" knowledge on this subject. I am so lucky to meet helpful and knowledgeable people like you on this forum. But I am a bit confused by one thing, and may be you can help me understand. How does the Laser device or its internal computer know its position on the earth?

That guy is bullshitting you.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

That guy is bullshitting you.

Probably, but sometimes in these discussions I learn something, and I am board, so I don't mind the exercise. Thanks for the warning though.

 

[shoots100]

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

I believe the more technical response would be the you don't know what the fuck your talking about theory.
Laser range finders work at night, day, twilight, dusk and dawn.
Some work better than others.
I would buy the lasers that work better than the others.

 

[NiteQwill]

Some of you guys really need to invest in a sarcasm meter. Because many of you suck at reading it.

 

[shoots100]

Maybe you could be the sarcasm czar on the hide and give a sarcasm alert to all of us that have broken sarcasm meters ?
No sarcasm here, so please don't put an alert on my post !

 

[NiteQwill]

Sure. Want anything else with your order?

 

[deersniper]

Raptar, radius , MRF, rangefinders with night vision , PVS 14 behind rangefinder or behind spotting scope slaved to Raptar or radius
Etc

 

[Burdy]

I used a Radius on several night hunts for hogs/coyotes and it worked great. I was able to range cows out to about 700y. I sold it here on the hide, and honestly, I think I regret it. There was rumors of another option coming and I figured I would get ahead of the game. I don't think that option is coming to fruition any time soon. I would be OK spending the money for a full power Wilcox IF warranty/repair would not be an issue. I am not sure we will ever see the option we want in this category that is both at the price we want and powerful, yet not restricted. I thought rangefinding riflescopes like the SWARO may solve this issue altogether, but I don't think any rangfinding scopes will be able to do so through night vision. Perhaps a forward looking company looking at getting into rangefinding scopes can get creative with the placement of the laser...

Of course, if you are not hunting alone, there are a lot of good options for a spotter that will get you there.

 

[jwramp]

Put sunglasses or a thick ND filter in front of your LRF to increase its daytime capabilities. Check mate, science.

 

[Burdy]

Put sunglasses or a thick ND filter in front of your LRF to increase its daytime capabilities. Check mate, science.

View attachment 7706138

This would only work with polarized glasses or ND filter correct?

 

[acudaowner]

little glow in the dark markers all over the neighborhood or field that's a wonderful idea yard markers on trees lol mail boxes and houses . lol

 

[ma smith]

It also helps if you are shooting the side of a barn









(sorry, couldn't resist...)

 

[308pirate]

I do have a laser range finder, but not sure if that can work in the night.

At the risk of being too obvious, why don't you try using it at night and finding out?

 

[koshkin]

Definitely zero to your spotting scope, the reticle in your day scope will be way off at night.

And don't believe the above. I'll offer a more technical response:

As a laser transits the atmosphere, it is reflected off the light rays being transmitted from the sun to the earth. Depending on the latitude of the laser, the internal computer of the laser computes the lateral distance of the rays of the sun versus your physical position on on the earth and calculates the pi mod lat difference between the two.

So no, lasers don't work at night.

This made my day. If you are not a stand up comedian, you have missed your true calling.

ILya

 

[harry_x1]

Radius works great.

At night? Whatever you think is “far”, cut it in half and you’ll still be in the long range category. 300 yards can be a struggle with good gear, unless its a metal plate that doesn’t run off. Then 500 is easy.
Using thermals, short barreled ar’s we have tried 800~ but with wind calls and very light bullets, it was pointless. Danced all around it. Now, something better in the wind than a 40 gr .224? Yes, prob back to “easy”.

It surely is a diff ball game when shooting at night. Yesterday night was our my first night out shooting. It was rainy, a bit foggy, full cloud with little light, but I was luckily able to spot the steel at 1530 yards (12 degree angle) on a mountain side. Got really really lucky. Made 4 shots and got 3 on target. The surprising thing was, that spotting the miss was easy with night vision picking up the bullet hitting rocks clearly. But you are right, it is very hard to identify the target. Here is the complete video on my youtube channel. It is in punjabi, but the shooting starts around 08:32 mins
PS: no IR illuminator used

 

[beetroot]

It surely is a diff ball game when shooting at night. Yesterday night was our my first night out shooting. It was rainy, a bit foggy, full cloud with little light, but I was luckily able to spot the steel at 1530 yards (12 degree angle) on a mountain side. Got really really lucky. Made 4 shots and got 3 on target. The surprising thing was, that spotting the miss was easy with night vision picking up the bullet hitting rocks clearly. But you are right, it is very hard to identify the target. Here is the complete video on my youtube channel. It is in punjabi, but the shooting starts around 08:32 mins

A Punjabi shooting channel is not something I ever expected to see.
But to be fair I (like most people on this forum) are total ignorant about gun rights in India, perhaps they are just as gun loving in Punjab as they are in Texas.

 

[jLorenzo]

How about hanging some chem lights on or near the plates?

 

[6.5SH]

How about hanging some chem lights on or near the plates?

That works, even for a standard optic at shorter ranges. I think his goal was to try it Au natural.

Many, many years ago we used the mini chem lights taped up to illuminate reticles in the era before LEDs in scopes.

 

[harry_x1]

A Punjabi shooting channel is not something I ever expected to see.
But to be fair I (like most people on this forum) are total ignorant about gun rights in India, perhaps they are just as gun loving in Punjab as they are in Texas.

I can state with absolute confidence that sikhs/punjabis are more gun loving than americans. Being armed is mandatory in sikhi. India though is another matter and it has draconian arms control laws where an average citizen can never own guns. That is because it is a centralised tyranny, a colonial legacy of the British. Though it has to be said, that even british were way more liberal with their gun laws.

sikhs/punjabis have no say in framing these laws which are mostly done at federal level.

#fuckIndia

 

[harry_x1]

That guy is bullshitting you.

Thanks . He is just trying to play a sarcastic joke without realizing that person he is taking to has spent 7 years in radars.

 

[NamibHunter]

It surely is a diff ball game when shooting at night. Yesterday night was our my first night out shooting. It was rainy, a bit foggy, full cloud with little light, but I was luckily able to spot the steel at 1530 yards (12 degree angle) on a mountain side. Got really really lucky. Made 4 shots and got 3 on target. The surprising thing was, that spotting the miss was easy with night vision picking up the bullet hitting rocks clearly. But you are right, it is very hard to identify the target. Here is the complete video on my youtube channel. It is in punjabi, but the shooting starts around 08:32 mins

That is good shooting Mr H.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Do you keep a log book on that 24LRs round count? If not, please entertain it in the name of science