How do you know if you have a keeper or not...

DannyS99

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Minuteman
Nov 15, 2013
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Boca Raton, FL
Totally hypothetical scenario but I was wondering what the seasoned folks here think about this. Let's say you bought an over the counter rifle, equipped it with good optics, bipod, bench fired a few dozen times with match or hand loaded ammunition under ideal conditions.

What kind of criteria should one consider before ditching this particular rifle or investing more time and money in to it for upgrades. Is there a general consensus such as "a new rifle under x moa is a keeper and over y moa is a goner"?

For the sake of argument lets say this rifle is just for long distance bench shooting - no hunting, no tactical scenarios - none of that stuff...

Cheers
 
I'm gonna' jump in on the deep end here, but consistent 1/2 to 3/4 moa with several different loads might be a good starting point. You may have lost your audience already though with the criteria of long distance BENCH shooting. This crowd trends toward positional and belly shooting in all conditions. Welcome to the Hide.
 
Thanks for the reply. By the way, I'm not opposed to prone shooting at all... It's just (confession time) I've never tried it. I'm 40, and the first time I ever held & fired a firearm was 3-4 years ago, so there is a boat load of things I never tried, don't know and all that stuff :)
 
I'm assuming you mean shooting off a bench and not NRA benchrest as that seems to be what you're saying.

With a bone stock weapon, straight off the shelf you're looking for consistent 1" groups or less @ 100yds with match grade ammo with a proper string of fire for the barrel profile, meaning; if you're using a hunting profile barrel you're going to want to put plenty of time between shots to make sure you're not heating the barrel and changing your POI too much, as opposed to free fire with a bull barrel or better.

This is also assuming you have proper technique, no slight intended. If you're doubtful then test it in a Ransom rest or similar to be sure your getting the max the actual rifle can produce.

If you're consistently getting outside of this, then you may want to consider a new barrel first, or even a new rifle. If you're inside 1" then you're pretty much there for what most stock guns will do, at that point get a better stock or chassis for it and your groups should shrink if you're doing your part as a shooting and are on your way to having a good shooter.

Edited for clarity
 
Thanks for the reply. By the way, I'm not opposed to prone shooting at all... It's just (confession time) I've never tried it. I'm 40, and the first time I ever held & fired a firearm was 3-4 years ago, so there is a boat load of things I never tried, don't know and all that stuff :)

Tons of info here from fella's with years of experience. Most here are great with just a few old grumps (like me) :)
 
I'm going to throw some stuff out here that I have learned in the past ~6 months. I'm very much a newbie at this as well, but you may find it useful.

I have two rifles: a stock Remington 700 and a custom build on a Remington 700 action. The custom is custom just because it has an aftermarket barrel.

The stock rifle is all over the place, and the best I had it shoot was about 1/2 MOA and it is averaging about 3/4 MOA with handloads. If I get away from those loads, it shoots 1-1.5 MOA, and even worse with certain ammo I will not name. The custom rifle, consistently shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA with all the ammo I have put through it, which is about what I am good for on any given day.

More importantly, the stock rifle has a 20" lighter profile barrel, in a very light weight chassis with a Harris bipod which is more difficult to load up on the bench and a heavier trigger. The aftermarket rifle has a longer, heavier barrel (23" M40 contour), weights about 5 lbs more and has a bipod I can load up solidly, with a tuned trigger (still the stock Remington though). The aftermarket rifle is probably inherently more accurate, but other factors make it much easier for me as a novice shooter to shoot.

There's less muzzle blast and recoil to deal with, its easier for me to setup on, it's easier to achieve a consistent forward pressure on the bipod, etc. I didn't really appreciate any of this until I had the experience of shooting multiple rifles, even though I had been told so by a friend who knew what he was talking about. My attitude was let's start with a harder setup, and if I learn with a harder to shoot setup, everything else will be easier. This was the wrong attitude, and if things didn't go well, which was often the case when I was learning on the stock gun, I felt a like a failure. I ended up burning through expensive ammo and probably building bad habits and training scars which will have to be undone sooner or later. Learning to shoot the bolt gun is one of the harder things I've done/am doing, and it might be easy for you but I don't know. It's sucker punched my self esteem on more than one occasion.

So I'm trying to get at two things. The first is there is a difference between the inherent accuracy of a setup and the achieved accuracy of the shooter on the setup. You may or may be able to figure out this difference with a lead sled or a bunch of bags as was mentioned, but I've never used them and its just more money and its the second we are really after. The second is there is also the ease of use factor, where both guns might have the same accuracy, but one gun is easier to shoot to its full potential than the other. If your gun is going to be used as a family gun, that a wife or kids may shoot, or to introduce a friends to firearms, the second becomes more important.

At some point, rebarreling the gun is a good investment, not just to make it more accurate, but to make it easier and more enjoyable to shoot, easier to learn on and develop fundamentals, and to more successfully introduce others to the sport. It removes the gun/equipment factor from the equation, and puts the onus back on the shooter to really focus on what they're doing and to learn how to do it well without the equipment out.
 
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Is this a hypothetical weapon, or one you just bought? In any case," over the counter" is abroad term. Some over the counters with no pillar bedding or torqued stock screws may not shoot under 1.5 inches. this does not mean it is not a keeper. With a little home grown smithing, or someone else knowing what they are doing may bring the same gun into a 1/2 to 3/4 shooter. Also a medium to heavy barrel is a must for shot to shot regularity. If you havn't made your purchase yet i would suggest you go to some comps. and talk to the shooters and gain some useful knowledge as to what you need for whatever kind of shooting you want to do.
 
Kinsman is on the money...

Use the same criteria you would use in picking a girlfriend or wife....

Short term to get by??? Potential??? Settling??? Everything you've ever dreamed about and never lets you down??? lol!

You'll know you have a good one when you wouldn't think of or can't justify getting rid of it, whether it's nastalgic or performance.

God I hope my girlfriend doesn't see this... but there is some truth to it.
 
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