How many loads did YOUR last batch of brass last YOU?

[TheNatural21]

For the last batch of rifle brass you scrapped, how many firings did it last? I'm going to break the poll down into standard and magnum cartridges to get a bit more insight into the results.

If you don't scrap the whole batch, you could answer with when you noticed you had to start tossing a bunch of cases with loose primer pockets, incipient case head separation, split necks, etc. even if you continue to load the remaining good ones until they also show signs of failure.

I know - the answer to this question is different for every combination of brass brand, cartridge, powder charge, amount of brass sizing, type of sizing, annealing process, and on and on. Even in the same rifle I've had different brass/loads last 4 or 10+ firings.

What I'm curious about is the distribution of people's actual recent results, not the hypothetical debate that is often repeated.

Feel free to chime in with more details - more info is always appreciated. If I could add more options in the survey I'd break it down further.

 

[Mike Casselton]

200pcs 6-BR Lapua made it to 5200 rounds before the barrel died.

That's 26x and the brass is just fine.

No, I don't beat the shit out of it, but I don't baby it either.
No annealing.

I'll use it on my next barrel until either the barrel or the brass dies.

 

[TheNatural21]

200pcs 6-BR Lapua made it to 5200 rounds before the barrel died.

That's 26x and the brass is just fine.

No, I don't beat the shit out of it, but I don't baby it either.
No annealing.

I'll use it on my next barrel until either the barrel or the brass dies.

That's the first I remember hearing a number for 6BR barrel life. Sounds very good.

Good brass life too, although not as surprising. I've heard some really good numbers from Lapua in standard cartridges. Thanks for the info.

 

[straightshooter1]

200pcs 6-BR Lapua made it to 5200 rounds before the barrel died.

That's 26x and the brass is just fine.

No, I don't beat the shit out of it, but I don't baby it either.
No annealing.

I'll use it on my next barrel until either the barrel or the brass dies.

Since you mention "no annealing", am curious as to what extent you go to minimize the movement of the brass for when they're fired and then sized. Like, how much does your necks expand upon being fired, then how much does your sizing die reduce the necks; how much shoulder bump . . . things like that?

 

[KnowNothing256]

I’m running Lapua 22BR at upper moderate pressures, and I’m losing about 10 pieces per 500 at 8-9 firings. I anneal every firing, and have a honed die.

I don’t think this is acceptable case life, so I’m going to be looking at my sizing and annealing operations. I was sizing 0.008” under, then opening up with a mandrel to 0.003” under; I’m going to switch to 0.005” under with the sizing step and see if that helps. The Annealeez fix may be more complicated.

ETA: Losing cases to split necks. The loaded rounds are 0.252” neck OD, the chamber is 0.255”.

 

[straightshooter1]

I’m running Lapua 22BR at upper moderate pressures, and I’m losing about 10 pieces per 500 at 8-9 firings. I anneal every firing, and have a honed die.

I don’t think this is acceptable case life, so I’m going to be looking at my sizing and annealing operations. I was sizing 0.008” under, then opening up with a mandrel to 0.003” under; I’m going to switch to 0.005” under with the sizing step and see if that helps. The Annealeez fix may be more complicated.

What's causing you're loss of 10 pieces per 500. . . split necks, loose primer pockets?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Since you mention "no annealing", am curious as to what extent you go to minimize the movement of the brass for when they're fired and then sized. Like, how much does your necks expand upon being fired, then how much does your sizing die reduce the necks; how much shoulder bump . . . things like that?

Shoulder bump is .0015.
Neck bushing is a .265.
Chamber was .272nk.
Proof 7.5tw barrel.

No mandrel use.
I use the same setting on my die for the other Criterion 8tw barrel. I never bothered to check that one, other than shoulder bump. The chambers are less than .0005 different at the datum line.
In fact, if my other two BRs weren't a .262 nk diameter, I could use the same die setting for all four of them.

The .262nk chambers on the 13.5 and 14tw get neck turned and have .001 clearance.

The first one I had built by Steve Kostanich, and the original 47 pieces of brass are currently sitting at 50 firings. The other 50 from that box have an unknown number of firings on them.
I think I got my $37.00 out of that box of Lapua brass.

 

[KnowNothing256]

What's causing you're loss of 10 pieces per 500. . . split necks, loose primer pockets?

Edited, thanks

 

[John Glidewell]

Wife's 6GT is on 13th and 14th firing with no signs of giving up the ghost. Alpha OCD, Berger 109 at 2930 with 33.7 of RL15.5. The barrel is at 2800ish rounds and still going. Just went from 33.4 to 33.7 as the barrel is starting to die, but the brass is still good. Will run new brass once this barrel gets pulled.

 

[TheNatural21]

Interesting results for the standard cartridges so far. I'm guessing the rest of the 5-8 crowd (including me) is also lower quality brass and/or semi auto and/or FL sizing. Lots of replies in the teens seems like good info.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I gotta say, if I'm using a Fudd chambering with factory brass like Winchester or Remington, I expect about a dozen firings before the primer pocket dies.
Federal I expect less than 10 unless it's a belted magnum.

I expect more firings with better/closer to spec chambers, even on modern factory rifles.

 

[TheNatural21]

I gotta say, if I'm using a Fudd chambering with factory brass like Winchester or Remington, I expect about a dozen firings before the primer pocket dies.
Federal I expect less than 10 unless it's a belted magnum.

I expect more firings with better/closer to spec chambers, even on modern factory rifles.

That's similar to what I had thought, but didn't have the first hand data to back it up.

My 5-8 answer is for Hurtenberger 7.62x51 '83 (Austrian milsurp known for good factory plinking rounds but soft and thin brass more similar to Federal than other milsurp). 2-3 firings in an M14-type with very loose chamber, switched to a bolt gun with tight chamber and now up to 5 firings. FL sized, not hot loads. I'm seeing a few loose primer pockets and will be loading a 6th and final time before scrapping the batch.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Last batch I started scraping cases from was lapua 6BR at 16 firings. the extractor grooves grew and wouldn't fit in the shellholder for priming.

If I start a new barrel, I start with new brass, so a 300 piece lot will only see maybe 8 - 10 firings and anything i lose is under a prop or in the tall grass somewhere. I think this ends up so personal/situational that we won't draw any conclusions or trends.

 

[TheNatural21]

Last batch I started scraping cases from was lapua 6BR at 16 firings. the extractor grooves grew and wouldn't fit in the shellholder for priming.

If I start a new barrel, I start with new brass, so a 300 piece lot will only see maybe 8 - 10 firings and anything i lose is under a prop or in the tall grass somewhere. I think this ends up so personal/situational that we won't draw any conclusions or trends.

Thanks for the info. Was that 6BR brass a set of 300?

I think we're seeing some strong patterns already. 67% of standard cartridge responses are in the range of 13-20 firings, and 60% of magnum responses are in the 5-8 bin. It seems like I could reasonably expect a reloader with good reloading practices and good brass to end up in that range, of course with significant +/- due to all the factors we know have an impact.

 

[CK1.0]

I’ve got 2 different barrels and 19 firings on a batch of 300 Lapua that are ex-22-250->6CM (new/born-as Lapua 22-250 that I ran a .241” mandrel through and then fire-formed into 6CM on the first firing). I got them during Covid when brass was scarce, and since Lapua doesn’t make LRP 6CM brass and I had a bunch of CCI200s… I made it myself lol. The only side-effect is shorter than normal necks (so they end up sort of like a big Dasher case). FWIW, I never ran either barrel hotter than ~2900fps, and they’re still going strong (and I’ve never had to trim them lol). I anneal every firing on an AMP. I’ve lost ~5-6 to matches/props only. If I get another 6CM barrel, I’ll use them.

I’ve also got 300pcs of Alpha 6GT “Gay Tiger” head stamped brass with ~13-14 firings on them over 2 different barrels that are still going strong. Same deal, annealed every firing on an AMP, ran/running slowish at 2800-2850fps, though I’ve lost more like ~20 due to matches/props (seems other guys will pick up the 6GT cases but leave the 22-250s lol), pockets are still tight so I’ll probably use them for another barrel (#3) before I retire them.

(I’m voting 17-20 and 20+ firings because I don’t see why they won’t make it.)

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Was that 6BR brass a set of 300?

No, either 100 or 200, although I'm not sure why that would matter in this context.

I think we're seeing some strong patterns already. 67% of standard cartridge responses are in the range of 13-20 firings, and 60% of magnum responses are in the 5-8 bin.

I disagree. Presently, there are 6 votes each (which isn't a lot) for standard cartridges 5-8 and 13-16. Why is there a gap? Without drilling down further (brass type, book max vs SH starting loads, bolt vs semi, etc etc) it's not much use for predictions. Even then, why did I get half the firings that some other 6BR bubbas got? Should I change my practices because I get 10 instead of 13? I dunno man, there's a lot of slop there - and with such broad categories, I'd expect that.

It is neat to see as a 'gee-whiz.' I'm not sure how to rephrase the question to make the results applicable, without making each choice so niche that there aren't enough votes to draw conclusions from. It's a tough poll to do, IMHO. Maybe it will shake out with more votes.

 

[TheNatural21]

No, either 100 or 200, although I'm not sure why that would matter in this context

It's not relevant to the poll at all - I was curious if I could combine your 2 comments (300 virgin brass, 16x firings = 4800 rounds on a 6BR barrel and still going).

I disagree. Presently, there are 6 votes each (which isn't a lot) for standard cartridges 5-8 and 13-16. Why is there a gap? Without drilling down further (brass type, book max vs SH starting loads, bolt vs semi, etc etc) it's not much use for predictions. Even then, why did I get half the firings that some other 6BR bubbas got? Should I change my practices because I get 10 instead of 13? I dunno man, there's a lot of slop there - and with such broad categories, I'd expect that.

It is neat to see as a 'gee-whiz.' I'm not sure how to rephrase the question to make the results applicable, without making each choice so niche that there aren't enough votes to draw conclusions from. It's a tough poll to do, IMHO. Maybe it will shake out with more votes.

Fair points. I've added the most poll options that it would let me, so drilling down further would be a challenge. With the small sample size and many uncontrolled variables the results will not be great statistically, but still interesting.

 

[Emerson0311]

‘06 etc, generic brass, loads mid to top, no annealling, FL 2X neck size the others, 7-8 loads before the paper clip test seemed suspect. A basic Reloader here.

 

[Ledzep]

 

[Emerson0311]

View attachment 8561299

Fair, although my loads are using reloading manuals and chrono’ed to be within the expected velocities.

 

[Ledzep]

Fair, although my loads are using reloading manuals and chrono’ed to be within the expected velocities.

Yeah I'm mostly joking. If you're getting case head separation it's not usually a pressure thing, more of a stretch/resize thing. Guys that blast Lapua/Alpha primer pockets in 5-8 firings though... It's pressure.

 

[TheNatural21]

Fair, although my loads are using reloading manuals and chrono’ed to be within the expected velocities.

I'm also in that range and most of my loads are around 45k psi (according to GRT) for that batch of soft brass, and getting a few loose primer pockets. Brass quality makes a big difference. I also have a set of Lapua brass for the "good loads" and that's higher pressure and 15 firings with no signs of problems in the same rifle with same reloading technique. Mind you, the cheap stuff came as loaded ammunition for less $ than the empty Lapua cases.

You may want to check how much you're pushing the shoulder back with the FL die though - if you're mostly neck sizing the FL die is probably set to size it too small if you're having case head separation problems.

 

[Sheldon N]

I average around 20 firings for my last couple sets of Dasher and BRA brass.

223 (starting with 1x fired mil-surplus brass) lasts me around 10-12 firings. I bump shoulder more aggressively on those and the shallower shoulder angle allows a lot more case stretch.

Mostly case-head separation has been the limiting factor. I do bump shoulders for a "zero effort" bolt close, could definitely extend life by bumping less and dealing with a tighter chamber/brass fit.

 

[Emerson0311]

I'm also in that range and most of my loads are around 45k psi (according to GRT) for that batch of soft brass, and getting a few loose primer pockets. Brass quality makes a big difference. I also have a set of Lapua brass for the "good loads" and that's higher pressure and 15 firings with no signs of problems in the same rifle with same reloading technique. Mind you, the cheap stuff came as loaded ammunition for less $ than the empty Lapua cases.

You may want to check how much you're pushing the shoulder back with the FL die though - if you're mostly neck sizing the FL die is probably set to size it too small if you're having case head separation problems.

I don’t know when the heads would separate because I cull the brass before that. Like you said, it was all generic brass Horn/Fed etc that came as loaded factory ammo.

 

[supercorndogs]

If you're feeling the the groves with a paper clip. You are close. You can cut one on half and get a really good look.

 

[WeR0206]

Shoulder bump is .0015.
Neck bushing is a .265.
Chamber was .272nk.
Proof 7.5tw barrel.

No mandrel use.
I use the same setting on my die for the other Criterion 8tw barrel. I never bothered to check that one, other than shoulder bump. The chambers are less than .0005 different at the datum line.
In fact, if my other two BRs weren't a .262 nk diameter, I could use the same die setting for all four of them.

The .262nk chambers on the 13.5 and 14tw get neck turned and have .001 clearance.

The first one I had built by Steve Kostanich, and the original 47 pieces of brass are currently sitting at 50 firings. The other 50 from that box have an unknown number of firings on them.
I think I got my $37.00 out of that box of Lapua brass.

Thanks for sharing Mike. Sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it but what's the brand/model # of the FL bushing sizing die are you using?

Which brand/type of die do you use to seat your bullets, regular or Arbor press?
TIA

 

[Mike Casselton]

On the BR brass, I use Redding FL die and TiN bushing.

I use different seater dies.
I have Redding micrometer, Forster and also Wilson arbor press seater dies. Depends on the rifle or if I'm loading at the range

 

[Near miss]

View attachment 8561299

I am going to say straight away I am the one who answered 1-4. This does not count the original factory loading.

That said, with Lapua cases my current load would be nearly normal, lasting many more reloads. I prepped my bulk batch of 55gr PMC (around 2K brass if I remember right, I have it written down) for use mostly because they did not need primer pocket decrimping.

During their first test shoot (I do the preliminary load testing with Lapua, which had no problem) I noticed they were having problems as the primer pocket got loose, some cases had no problem and few lasted only two times.

This is a "fast" 16" Lothar barrel, with Factory Norma 55 doing 3110 and the current 75gr going 2740 with N540.

At the moment I have started to reload the rest of PMC with 23.8gr (around 2620) instead of 24.4gr for 300m and closer use and casual practice and looking for next bulk batch, probably Geco or Sako.

 

[TheNatural21]

Responses are slowing right down. Not enough data to draw any real statistical conclusions, but there's enough to add commentary to some anecdotes and rules of thumb floating around in reloading discussions online.

The guys that say "throw it in the bin after 4 firings. After that the cost of brass isn't worth the risk of damage to your rifle and your face" seem like they're missing out on some good shooting or really abusing that brass. 97% of respondents got more than 4 firings from standard size cases.

On the other extreme, the comments that "good brass lasts basically forever. I/my friend/a magazine/etc reloaded the same case 50 times to see how long it would last and got bored before we found out" may be truthful but not providing the best guidance to others. We've heard from a couple people with experience that supports these kinds of claims, but only 13% of respondents got more than 20 firings in standard case sizes so it's not the norm.

My personal interpretation of the poll, combined with reading a lot of commentary and talking to people, is that 5-8 firings on standard size cartridges is a reasonable expectation for lower quality brass or use cases that are a bit abusive (semi, oversizing, hot loads). Something around the high teens would be a reasonable expectation for good brass that's taken care of. As has been discussed since the dawn of reloading, there are lots of factors at play and individual results vary significantly.

Magnums? Who knows. Responses all over the place and not much data.