How Much Recoil Does The AR-9 Have?

[Kwfranklin88]

My 9 year old wants an AR-15. He loves shooting mine. It’s just a little too big for him to maneuver properly.

I have been wanting a 10.5” AR-9 pistol for awhile now. I thought it might be easier for my son and wife to plink with it instead of the AR-15. Wife could use it for home defense also.

I came across some articles saying that the AR-9 pistols actually have more recoil than a 223. Is this true? Any advice?
I just can’t imagine a 9mm having that much recoil. I shot a kel tec sub 2000 and it wasn’t bad at all.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Looking to do the same for my boys, just not sure what barrel length would be best. Thanks for making this thread

 

[striped1]

Some of the guys I shoot with that have small frame, younger kids have started them on the Kel-tec 9mm rifle. Takes Glock mags. Is quite a bit lighter than an AR version.

I have shot a Taccom3g one that is a pistol barrel with an aluminum shroud on it. It is under a pound. That and a light stock makes for a very light / fast AR 9.

Super Feed 16″ ULW Barrel AR15-9mm | Taccom3g

Our new ramped barrel is just the thing for competitors who utilize glock and colt style PCCs.

taccom3g.com

 

[Kwfranklin88]

Looking to do the same for my boys, just not sure what barrel length would be best. Thanks for making this thread

I’m not sure if this helps but I was researching that also. I wanted a short barrel but still enough performance to use as home defense if needed. I decided on the 10.5” barrel. The 8” would be my next choice. The longer barrels cause less velocity because the powder burns up and the barrel creates drag. The velocity chart I looked at showed the 8”-10” range best for a short barrel that still gives good velocity. It’s a few hundred FPS faster than a 9mm pistol with 5” barrel.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

It has 0 recoil in 16” pickup a complete rifle from PSA mine ran like a sewing machine they have 10.5 to

PSA Gen4 4" 9mm 1/10 GX M-Lok MOE SBA3 Pistol

Barrel: 4" chrome moly steel barrel. Chambered in 9mm, (9x19), with a 1/10 twist. The barrel is nitride treated for durability and finished off with a Palmetto State Armory 6" Lightweight M-

palmettostatearmory.com

This looks like fun

 

[Kwfranklin88]

It has 0 recoil in 16” pickup a complete rifle from PSA mine ran like a sewing machine they have 10.5 to

PSA Gen4 4" 9mm 1/10 GX M-Lok MOE SBA3 Pistol

Barrel: 4" chrome moly steel barrel. Chambered in 9mm, (9x19), with a 1/10 twist. The barrel is nitride treated for durability and finished off with a Palmetto State Armory 6" Lightweight M-

palmettostatearmory.com

This looks like fun

I was thinking about trying that one in the 8” barrel.

 

[HenryTheAce]

CMMG Banshee with the 8” barrel is a great shooter. Delayed blowback system with a couple different weights to tune it. To me the recoil is very compatible with an SBR 5.56. I went with the 8” barrel since 5” seemed a little too short for my liking.

 

[striped1]

I have run the 5" with the shroud an it has not problem knocking down steel.

It isn't a recoil issue with an AR 9, it is a weight and balance issue for small kids.

 

[Kwfranklin88]

I have run the 5" with the shroud an it has not problem knocking down steel.

It isn't a recoil issue with an AR 9, it is a weight and balance issue for small kids.

Do you have any advice on fixing the weight and balance issues?

 

[Alphatreedog]

Wow awesome thread and good angle . My kid wants a Barret .50 . ?

 

[Lostin89]

Zero recoil, take the lightest 16" (ar15 regardless of caliber) you own, put it in his hands, and see where you stand with weight\length and build accordingly.

It won't be the recoil (I was shooting my dads m4 and beretta by 9 in the 90s, grsnted I was a BIG kid)..it will be the weight, and nose dive from length.

At the end of the day, start him like my dad did me, bench and pad first, and let him work into.

Supper jealous btw, my wife and I just now started down the road of starting a family in our 30s.


Just my two cents

 

[The DFC]

Do you have any advice on fixing the weight and balance issues?

You my friend are in a conundrum-the lighter the gun is the more recoil it has

 

[Kwfranklin88]

Zero recoil, take the lightest 16" (ar15 regardless of caliber) you own, put it in his hands, and see where you stand with weight\length and build accordingly.

It won't be the recoil (I was shooting my dads m4 and beretta by 9 in the 90s, grsnted I was a BIG kid)..it will be the weight, and nose dive from length.

At the end of the day, start him like my dad did me, bench and pad first, and let him work into.

Supper jealous btw, my wife and I just now started down the road of starting a family in our 30s.


Just my two cents

He has been bench shooting for a couple of years now. He wants to move up into some movement drills. USPSA style mini courses. We have a nice home range. He is bored of the bench lol. He can handle recoil well. It’s the weapon weight and length that is the issue. That’s why I was thinking maybe a 9mm ar pistol with 8”-10” barrel would be perfect for him. He wants to shoot an ar but can’t handle the weight of a 16” and doesn’t like the sound of the pistol length 5.56.

 

[Kwfranklin88]

You my friend are in a conundrum-the lighter the gun is the more recoil it has

It’s a true black hole lol

 

[Lostin89]

He has been bench shooting for a couple of years now. He wants to move up into some movement drills. USPSA style mini courses. We have a nice home range. He is bored of the bench lol. He can handle recoil well. It’s the weapon weight and length that is the issue. That’s why I was thinking maybe a 9mm ar pistol with 8”-10” barrel would be perfect for him. He wants to shoot an ar but can’t handle the weight of a 16” and doesn’t like the sound of the pistol length 5.56.

Totally understand and makes sense. You cut the whole gas system out with the 9mm ARs which is nice, and I would think as long as you used a light weight rail and a captured buffer spring the recoil "should" be good to go for him.

Would it be worth starting him off on a pistol 5.56 with a 22lr conversion to get him used to the weight/ movement?

 

[MPDS13]

Sig MPX Pistol

I know this is not the cheapest option and is not technically AR pattern. But the ergonomics are extremely similar and has absolutely no recoil. Love mine, shoots so smooth and fast.

 

[Lunchbox27]

The CMMG Banshee is a nice option. You could also get a 5” or 8” Faxon upper and run the CMMG mag conversion kit in your magpul pmags.

 

[perttime]

There's little actual "recoil" in a 9mm AR

BUT....
The typical blowback action with a big chunk of metal moving back and forth makes it bounce a bit.

 

[eastexsteve]

My 9 year old wants an AR-15. He loves shooting mine. It’s just a little too big for him to maneuver properly.

I have been wanting a 10.5” AR-9 pistol for awhile now. I thought it might be easier for my son and wife to plink with it instead of the AR-15. Wife could use it for home defense also.

I came across some articles saying that the AR-9 pistols actually have more recoil than a 223. Is this true? Any advice?
I just can’t imagine a 9mm having that much recoil. I shot a kel tec sub 2000 and it wasn’t bad at all.

I have an FX-9 (AR-9) with 16" barrel. It weighs in at under 6 lbs with no optic. I notice very little recoil at all. It's definitely the way to go for a plinker as 9mm ammo is super cheap compared to 5.56. And, that added barrel length seems to make those 9mm rounds really cook.

 

[Lostin89]

I have an FX-9 (AR-9) with 16" barrel. It weighs in at under 6 lbs with no optic. I notice very little recoil at all. It's definitely the way to go for a plinker as 9mm ammo is super cheap compared to 5.56. And, that added barrel length seems to make those 9mm rounds really cook.

The problem he's going to have with any 16" options is the length/weight.....so shaving oz will make a huge difference in his son's ability to properly use.

8-10" barrel and an sba3 brace with a captured buffer spring should do it?

 

[eastexsteve]

The problem he's going to have with any 16" options is the length/weight.....so shaving oz will make a huge difference in his son's ability to properly use.

8-10" barrel and an sba3 brace with a captured buffer spring should do it?

The 8" barrel option should shave some weight in the front, but he still needs to be able to shoot it like a rifle. That full 33 round magazine is going to add some weight though.

 

[striped1]

Ultralight barrel with the PCC the shrouded one is the lightest. Using a pistol brace is problematic if you want to compete with it as most governing bodies won't allow the brace. The ACE type stock or an end plate stock goes a long way, but they do lack in a lot of adjustability. So if you need a short length of pull you may have to try a few options, but those are the lightest available. The MFT Battlelink Minimalist is a good, light adjustble one.

 

[oldfatguy]

There's little actual "recoil" in a 9mm AR

BUT....
The typical blowback action with a big chunk of metal moving back and forth makes it bounce a bit.

^^^^^^^^^^^
This

The Kel Tech recoil feels like more then the blowback CMMG MKG9. The Banshee RDB recoil impulse isn’t significantly less, but different.

OFG

 

[Steel head]

Recoil my 16” 9mm AR is super mild.

 

[atepointer]

Has anyone here put an AR9 together with a suppressor? Thinking about building one definitely a Form 1 can, but also pondering options for the rifle....thanks for your build and how it ran/issues/solutions.

 

[HenryTheAce]

I have a CMMG 9mm with 8” barrel, I run it with a suppressor with no issues. I have the weights that you can add to the BCG, I use the medium one. Cycles fine with and without the suppressor just fine. Runs like a champ. I mainly shoot S&B, Federal, Winchester, ArmsCor ammo, anything but the cheaper wolf/Tula stuff etc, although I’m sure it would be fine with that stuff. I just don’t buy it

 

[Merle]

The recoil impulse is sharper so it does jump around a bit. Someone mentioned the MPX. That thing has almost no recoil whatsoever. Because it's gas operated the recoil impulse is totally different then any blowback 9mm I've ever fired. You pull the trigger, hear the bang, and about what seems like .2 seconds later you feel the recoil. Kind of odd the first time you shoot one.

 

[CountryShooter]

Do you have any advice on fixing the weight and balance issues?

Why yes I do. Extar EP9. Polymer upper and lower. Very lightweight. Inexpensive. Takes Glock mags. I don't know how durable they are, as I only have slightly less than 16,000 rounds through mine. I love it.

 

[deersniper]

Would he like a 22? A lightweight 22 with a can would be good fun. Maybe you mentioned and I missed it.

 

[Shifty6BR]

I have an 8" sbr, qc10 colt pattern db ...have tried multiple buffer weights and springs. Girlfriend says biggest improvement was the Blitzkrieg hydro buffer. and tubb .308 spring, I agree with her.

It is a soft shooter and stays flat on target.

ETA - someone mentioned the mpx..my buddy had one and it is a soft shooter with its lug system. Would imagine the cmmg version would be as well but no xp. My buffer setup and felt recoil impulse now mimics the mpx but it took some coin to get there. YMMV

 

[JINKSTER]

My favorite sidearm is my Glock G34 so a carbine that takes Glock Mags only makes good sense of which there are 3 that I know of...Ruger PCC-9mm...the AR-9's and Keltec's Sub2000.

I have a Sub2000 and was seriously considering adding an AR-9 until like the OP?...I discovered AR-9's actually have more recoil than an AR-15 due to the absence of any buffer system as the AR-9's operate on a simple "Blow-Back" system and my problem with that is my Keltec Sub2000?...has a buffer system...moreover?...I added the heavyweight brass follower which makes my Sub2K spit out rounds with about the same recoil as my Savage A22 .22WMR Rifle...and ny Sub2K is light, compact and extremely fast handling so?...I just went to town on it M-Carbo style on my kitchen table and the results were awesome...

<iframe width="1195" height="672" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Nimothy]

It has 0 recoil in 16” pickup a complete rifle from PSA mine ran like a sewing machine they have 10.5 to

PSA Gen4 4" 9mm 1/10 GX M-Lok MOE SBA3 Pistol

Barrel: 4" chrome moly steel barrel. Chambered in 9mm, (9x19), with a 1/10 twist. The barrel is nitride treated for durability and finished off with a Palmetto State Armory 6" Lightweight M-

palmettostatearmory.com

This looks like fun

I have a 4.5 (adco cut and threaded) barrel on a ar9 that is suppressed it’s an awesome kids rifle. It’s a bit heavy with a full mag though (colt style). My 7yr old niece really enjoys it. It is a registered sbr with a pdw type stock so it gets really small for her. The suppressor is really important for kids I believe. It keeps them focused on fundamentals more and helps them actually learn to shoot father then brace for recoil or a loud noise. Also (I wish my dad knew better) the best ear pro you can buy for them, it’ll go a long way I. Keeping them interested in shooting.

 

[Nimothy]

Also if you want it to run well. I would stick with all the same manufacture when it comes to bolts and receivers at the very least. I learned this the hard way. (Very expensive way lol) ar9’s used to not be cheap as they are today

 

[AliasSLH]

I would start with a combination of cmmg radial delay, vltor a5 system with a green springCo spring. A5H3 buffer would probably be a good start. I recall some time ago they were coming out with a adjustable weight a5 buffer so you don't have to buy a bunch of buffers to get the one you need. A good brake while annoing for many does a lot of work to reduce recoil.

I myself want an ar9 and I prefer building lowers to purchased uppers. I do know that a lot of ar9 builds never work when finished 100% and that's put me off on building one

Only reason I want one is a reason to buy Glock 33r stick mags

 

[padom]

my AR9 I built runs like a Swiss watch and is stupid quite with my 165gr subsonic handloads and soft recoil.

7.5" Wilson SS AR9 barrel
JP BCG
JP SCS Heavy

My son has been shooting mine since he was 8. His favorite gun to bang reactive steel.

 

[ddavis]

Now that I've put quite a few rounds through my CMMG RDB 8" set up, I'll give a little review. It DOES have a good bit less recoil than any blowback gun I've shot. It's much closer to an MP5 clone than a direct blowback. Mine is set up with an A5 buffer and a pretty heavy buffer weight, can't remember which one. It doesn't cycle 100% without the can but it's been reliable with it on. I have no plans of running a lighter buffer because I don't care to shoot it without the can. I also used their system that uses 556 mags. Those have worked really well too, highly recommend. I like double stack mags because they are super easy to load.

 

[Nimothy]

http://heavybuffers.com/ I’ve used the 9mm buffer when I had a regular stock and now I use the pdw 9mm buffer, they work great Suppressed or unsupressed. The come with the appropriate spring to use too. These folks make a nice large frame Ar buffer too.

 

[padom]

http://heavybuffers.com/ I’ve used the 9mm buffer when I had a regular stock and now I use the pdw 9mm buffer, they work great Suppressed or unsupressed. The come with the appropriate spring to use too. These folks make a nice large frame Ar buffer too.

I was running a 10oz heavy buffer and still wasn't as smooth and light recoil wise as JP's BCG and SCS combo.

 

[Nimothy]

I was running a 10oz heavy buffer and still wasn't as smooth and light recoil wise as JP's BCG and SCS combo.

That a pretty big money jump though? Is yours a fancy delayed system? Or just straight blowback like mine? Suppressed and unsuppressed. Is it reliable or ar9 “reliable”. Do they make it for a pdw. Forgive me but I wasn’t aware of a silent capture for pdw stocks especially not 9mm ones

 

[Anb618]

Love my 7.5” AR9 pistol. Built it for my wife as a HD gun to keep around when I was working Midnight shift. She’s not comfortable enough with handguns, and this option gave the capability for high capacity (no mag changes necessary with Glock mags filled with 31 rounds of 147gr Speer GD).

It has a different recoil impulse than a 5.56 AR, but that’s just because the BCG is heavier and slower. Plenty manageable for any youth of responsible centerfire shooting age. She’s perfectly comfortable shooting it, and at the distances she’d be forced to shoot inside our house she can basically point-shoot using the center of the TLR-1’s light beam.

 

[padom]

That a pretty big money jump though? Is yours a fancy delayed system? Or just straight blowback like mine? Suppressed and unsuppressed. Is it reliable or ar9 “reliable”. Do they make it for a pdw. Forgive me but I wasn’t aware of a silent capture for pdw stocks especially not 9mm ones

Done right and cheap when searching for reliability and low recoil on an AR9 don't mix. JP 9mm AR systems are widely known and reliable.

Mine are blowback and I've tested and still own 5 or 6 different buffers and springs. Nothing beats the JP combo. Its 100% reliable unsupressed and suppressed. The OP didn't say anything about PDW stocks. Youll have to check jp website I don't know about if it works with PDW stocks but they have a few models.



My son shooting mine with 66rd Glock mag

165gr subs




115FMJ with old spring and 10oz buffer

 

[Nimothy]

I looked it up it, not that much more than my bolt/buffer combo. I’ll look into it. Thanks for the recommendation. Don’t I know about ar9’s not being cheap I think the lower was around 500 stripped but this was in 2011ish, weren’t to many dedicated 9mm lowers around back then (that I knew about, or could find). Then adco made barrels but they were threaded weird and pretty expensive Once you threaded them right and chopped it down to where it made sense with available hand guard lengths. In all honesty I should have bought an mp5 clone with what I spent. Now it makes sense to do an ar9 with qc10 etc. they make it pretty easy these days

 

[Ryan.Johnson]

So for my kids I have alot of things that they have shot. The 9mm 16" barrel was just a bit heavy to actually run and gun with. The 5.5" 9mm is alot better but to be honest the thing they have the most fun with is a ruger 10/22 charger in a pmaca chassis with a pistol brace. It is alot lighter and they can really move more efficiently and there is no recoil so they can work on the fundamentals more. This is not mine but you get the idea.

 

[Kickin45]

The recoil is an interesting beast in the ar9.
Ive had 3 and currently run a carbon lower version. The actual recoil isn’t bad, but as stated above, the blow back and the moving parts are a bit violent.
It’s one of the few guns I own that when I cheek weld onto it, it bucks pretty hard.
My 8” 300blk doesn’t.
I also run heavy for cal bullets through it, so it’s spitting cannon balls.

 

[MCGILLA]

I have a 16” 9mm AR, my wife loves it so I think it would be fine for a newer shooter. Mine was put out by a local manufacturer and I’ve had zero problems. I will say that there isn’t much difference between that and a 223 recoil wise unless you want to shoot steel up close then 9mm is the jam

 

[redneckbmxer24]

AR9's don't shoot anywhere near as soft as the Sig MPX. They also aren't as reliable from my experience and the Glock mags suck to load compared to the MPX's. If you can swing it the MPX is the way to go. The CZ Scorpion Evo 3's are really nice too and would be my choice for a lesser expensive option since they're about half the price. They definitely don't have the build quality or robustness of the MPX.

I'd try to find a Gen 2 8" MPX pistol and rock on. There's one on GB right now with the MLOK hand guard that I've been eyeballing.

Just keep in mind you'll still want to make some upgrades. Mostly the trigger if you get one without the Timney, the factory Sig trigger is atrocious. You'll also want to get a Radian or Geissele charging handle right off the bat because the factory one chews up the inside of the receiver. If you get one with the folding brace you'll want to swap it for the SB collapsable one, the folder one isn't bad except for the brace part on the end which is a POS that spins all around the LOP is also going to be too long for a 9 year old. The collapsing one has a mid position that'll be perfect. Other than that all it needs is some extra mags, and a steady diet of ammo. Clean the piston every 3K rounds and replace the extractor every 10K.

 

[Kickin45]

redneck is correct. The reliability is a major factor in the ar9. I wouldn’t choose one in a gun fight. Stove pipes, ftf, unexplained malfunctions have occurred with all 3 of mine.
If I was purchasing an sbr9 for defense, I’d purchase a design specifically designed for the 9, like the Sig, Kriss or MP. Not the AR platform

 

[Darqusoull13]

@Kwfranklin88 I love my JP PCC's. They are just like any rifle. When they are set up well the 9mm's have minimal recoil. Here's a shot of my 10.5" getting ready to shoot a night match. With the Omega 9k suppressor it's hilariously soft and a blast to shoot. I think we ran 3-4 people at that match on the GMR so call it ~500 rounds in an evening? In that configuration the rifle probably had near 10,000 rounds before it went back to USPSA configuration with a comp.

Most of the time my JP PCC's are shooting USPSA. They get loaned out at matches to folks that either want to try PCC or have a PCC go down. Since 2016 they have a couple hundred thousand rounds spread over 4 different rifles. If you want quality and reliability you need to seriously consider the JP.

Photo for the looks.


Video shows pretty minimal recoil despite being a bit rusty from the winter break.

APSC.mp4

• Darqusoull13
• Apr 24, 2020
• pcc uspsa

USPSA Match Video from Austin Practical Shooting Club March 2020 match. 1st PCC and High Overall.

 

[RScott]

I would start with a combination of cmmg radial delay, vltor a5 system with a green springCo spring. A5H3 buffer would probably be a good start. I recall some time ago they were coming out with a adjustable weight a5 buffer so you don't have to buy a bunch of buffers to get the one you need. A good brake while annoing for many does a lot of work to reduce recoil.

I myself want an ar9 and I prefer building lowers to purchased uppers. I do know that a lot of ar9 builds never work when finished 100% and that's put me off on building one

Only reason I want one is a reason to buy Glock 33r stick mags

No ar9 ever work when complete? There are plenty that do. I have a 8" AR9 built on a sparyan(nfa) lower with a pcc upper reciever. I used a 5.4oz buffer and xp flat spring. Has a little kick but nothing that is unmanageable. Could always reduce it more with a mix or kyrshot hydrauluc buffer. Its extremely fun with the binary too!

 

[AliasSLH]

I didn't say yours didn't I said a lot of builds never work 100%.

When I want to build a gun I want I make sure its going to function 100% with the right pick of parts I want.
When I was researching ar9s 5 years ago there wasn't a single build in the FB groups that functioned the way they wanted it to.

Most just wouldn't feed, fire or eject and had to do a lot of work to get it to actually function.
I slap a bunch of random ass ar15 556 parts together with no matching companies for any part and it works every time.

Yet someone could do the same thing and have a non functioning gun. which is what I was talking about.