How short can I cut R700 PSS

[adb77]

Ok, I'm wanting a short .308 to hunt with. I currently have a R700 pss with a 26" barrel in a aics with Vortex gen I razor. If I cut the barrel to 18" what bullets will I be able to stabilize with the 1/12 twist? Secondly is there a folding chassis I can switch to that will save a substantial amount of weight? I know there are tons of scope that will fit the bill of what I am looking to do better than the Razor. Let me know your thoughts, thanks

 

[Ledzep]

You should be okay to about 175gr, which is probably all the heavier you want to go with a .308 most of the time. You can always try it and if they don't work, look at something like 155gr TMK's, ELD's, or VLD's.

Chassis are typically on-par with or heavier than a more-or-less equivalently optioned traditional stock. If you really want to cut weight, the folding option probably doesn't fit in, nor adjustable cheek hardware. The lightest you'll probably be looking at is in the 3.5-4lb range for the folding chassis/stock.

 

[adb77]

Thanks for the response ledzep

 

[NukeMMC]

I started my R700 as a 308 SPS-V I bought new at Dick's Sporting Goods for $450 back in 2008. I put it in a B&C with CDI DBM and went from a 1-1.5moa rifle to a 3/4-1moa rifle. I also used Marine-Tex and put some texture on the forend and in the grip area. Gave it to my gunsmith who set the barrel back almost 3/16" due to the chamber being non-concentric with the bore, cut it to 22" and threaded the muzzle and it became a very consistent sub-3/4moa rifle. It's a little heavier than the Rem721 in 270 with pencil barrel I used to have (turned it into a 300WM), but shoots MUCH better than the old 270.

Tac Ops used to do an upgrade on R700 PSS rifles where Mike would set them back, and cut the barrels to 20" to increase the stiffness. He would still give the same 100yd 1/4moa guarantee (with FGMM 168 ammo) if they were bedded into a McMillan or Tac Ops stock. That's when I got sold on making the R700 barrel work. It ended up a solid, repectable shooter, especially when I bedded it a McMillan A5. The McMillan didn't really add that much weight. Both stocks are around 2.75-3# as configured.

http://www.snipercentral.com/tactical-operations-remington-700p-tune/

 

[HighTide22]

Glad you asked this question been thinking of doing something similar myself. Subing

 

[fdkay]

I'm not sure you can get there from here in regards to weight.
The lighter weight chassis systems still come in over 3 pounds without the folder.
If I were trying to save weight, I'd look at one of the Manners light weight hunting stocks.
Even the B&C M40 will save you anywhere from 1/2 to 1 pound over a chassis system.
You will also save some weight by going to a different scope.
Something in the 2.5-10 power range is more than sufficient for your stated purpose.

Also, I just wanted to point out, there is a huge difference between the PSS and the 700P. The PSS was the Police Sharpshooter model and was assembled with more care. The 700P is nothing more than a varmint model pulled off the line and parkerized. They haven't made the PSS for many years.

 

[adb77]

I'm not sure you can get there from here in regards to weight.
The lighter weight chassis systems still come in over 3 pounds without the folder.
If I were trying to save weight, I'd look at one of the Manners light weight hunting stocks.
Even the B&C M40 will save you anywhere from 1/2 to 1 pound over a chassis system.
You will also save some weight by going to a different scope.
Something in the 2.5-10 power range is more than sufficient for your stated purpose.

Also, I just wanted to point out, there is a huge difference between the PSS and the 700P. The PSS was the Police Sharpshooter model and was assembled with more care. The 700P is nothing more than a varmint model pulled off the line and parkerized. They haven't made the PSS for many years.

How can I tell which model I have? Please elaborate, I bought the rifle used and was told it came from a local PD that traded in for a smaller rifle for closer type shots.

 

[SubOptimal]

For what it's worth, the 13" bbl on my 308 Wichita pistol allowed me to shoot 1" groups at 100 meters with pretty good regularity. That is with open sights and my handloads using a modified Creedmoor position. It would open up to about 1.4 MOA at 200m Nothing hot in terms of the loads and I mostly shot 155g bullets, 168 at the rams.
The muzzle blast and noise was impressive, unless shooting from an elevated platform, small rodents, leaves and twigs would clear for about 10 feet in front of the muzzle. I'm pretty sure the bbl was 1:10 twist.

 

[Sogan]

KRG bravo stock weights 2.9 pounds. No folding option though

 

[supercorndogs]

How can I tell which model I have? Please elaborate, I bought the rifle used and was told it came from a local PD that traded in for a smaller rifle for closer type shots.

Call remington with the serial number. I want to say the quit with the PSS in the early 90s. They will be able to tell you exactly what it is.

 

[adb77]

Thanks supercorndogs

 

[fdkay]

How can I tell which model I have? Please elaborate, I bought the rifle used and was told it came from a local PD that traded in for a smaller rifle for closer type shots.

I would suggest that you contact remington and run the serial number.
I had a chance to by a PSS back around 94.
I was a complete idiot, I wanted a 7mm, as I had a 7mm mauser already, and was trying to minimize components as I was an E5 with a wife and three kids at the time. Pay was a whole lot different 23 years ago.
The shop had a great price on it. I BELIEVE. but am not certain that it had a McMillan stock on it. I distinctly remember very aggressive texturing on the grip.
I've been kicking myself in the ass ever since (though I did end up with one of the first 7mm mag senderos to hit the market and it shoots very well)

 

[kholland]

I have a 700 cut down to 17.5” sitting in a McMillan a1-3. Shoots 168’s and 175’s just fine.

 

[308pirate]

If you really want to know how short you can go before stability suffers in your rifle, using your loads, you need to do this:
1. Chrono your current load
2. Make an assumption about how much speed you will lose per inch of barrel cut. I go with 25 fps based on some tests I've read about. Use whatever you're comfortable with
3. Pick a length you think is too short. Let's just say 16" to avoid the SBR hassle.
4. Estimate what your MV will be at that length based on what it is now with your rifle in its current condition
5. Use one of the several ballistics resources available to estimate the stability factor of your bullet at the new estimated MV
6. If the answer you get at step 5 is one that says "yea this bullet will be sufficiently stable", get the barrel cut and reinstalled. Shoot the rifle and confirm your research. If the answer is nope, won't stabilize, run the formula based on a slightly longer barrel and resulting MV estimate until you do find where the bullet will be stable.
7. If you fail at step 6, you have two options: buy a new barrel or work up a new load that will stabilize in the cut barrel.

Everything else is just guesswork. And guessing is a waste of time.

 

[spife7980]

Do what he said ^^^ but then figure out what your velocity is at distance by your ballistics tables or calc and then do the same operation to see if it will remain stable to an acceptable distance. Don’t want something alright at the muzzle but falls apart at 400 yards. Not likely but easy enough to make sure

 

[308pirate]

Do what he said ^^^ but then figure out what your velocity is at distance by your ballistics tables or calc and then do the same operation to see if it will remain stable to an acceptable distance. Don’t want something alright at the muzzle but falls apart at 400 yards. Not likely but easy enough to make sure

Good point to check at distance. I forgot that.

 

[goosed]

Do what he said ^^^ but then figure out what your velocity is at distance by your ballistics tables or calc and then do the same operation to see if it will remain stable to an acceptable distance. Don�t want something alright at the muzzle but falls apart at 400 yards. Not likely but easy enough to make sure

No need to do verify down range.

If the bullet is sufficiently stable at the muzzle it will be stable through it's entire supersonic trajectory.

Velocity slows faster than spin rate. Thus an already stabilized bullet will become more stable down range not less.

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[spife7980]

Then why do the slightly too heavy bullets for my rifles with insufficient twist for them look fine (for what they are, mid century softer rifles) at 100 but at 250 are spinning out a tad?

Well I guess of depends depends on the “sufficient”. On the jbm would green be sufficient and yellow like marginal or something? Or would green be good and yellow sufficient? If it’s green to start then yeah, you’ll be fine with adequate head room but if yellow I would say it’s likely to be alright but depending on how it can go down you might not have favorable results. Not to say the old 6mm didn’t kill plenty of deer in its time but anything over 85gr it hated

I guess I should recognize the demographic a bit better through, the guy is eyeing a razor and obviously not in the shade tree smithing realm like indefailt to warning against.

 

[goosed]

Haven't used jbm in a long time, but if I recall correctly green is stable. Yellow is marginal, meaning it may or may not be stable.

Although not a rule set in stone that less is automatically bad, but in gerneral 1.4 is considered by many the minimum stability factor for garunteed stability.

I would need more info before I could give be certain, but I would venture to guess your anecdote is a perfect example of bullets that aren't sufficiently stablized at the muzzle to over come the yaw angle.

Think of a spinning top. If you start spinning the top from an odd angle. It will start out wobbly, but if it's spinning fast enough the wobble will decrease over time until it becomes a tight spiral. However, if the top isn't spinning fast enough the wobble will only get worse till it tumbles over.

Same is true with bullets. The nose of the bullet doesn't leave the barrel spinning straight. The bullet has all sorts of yaw. If it's spinning fast enough the yaw decreases during flight into a tight spiral just like in top example, but if it's not the yaw will increase until it tumbles.

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