Hunting bullet reloads

[battlestick]

I have what is probably a basic question, so please don't beat the hell outta me for it!

I read where everyone loads for the longer shots and by the time the bullet gets out there and it has slowed some, the expansion is close to optimum for whatever bullet they are using.

I reload for my AR and we (mostly my boys) use my AR for the small WT here in Tx and I load it on the upper end in an accuracy node. Small bullet, needs all the punch I can give it....

Where I plan on hunting I won't have a shot over 100-125 yards. I will be using my 30-06 at this short range. I know if I load a Barnes bullet it will zip right through these deer without much expansion at 3k fps....So what would be the best way for me to load for such a short range? Heavy and slow?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Most anything should work for smallish deer at close range.

150gr softpoint would be the classic load that's worked forever. If you wanted to, you could load it like a 30-30, 150 or 170gr flat point at 2200-2400 fps or so.

 

[diriel]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

I would be tempted to get some Sierra 125gr Pro Hunter bullets, then get some H4895. The cool thing about this powder is you can load it WAY down even in a 30-06.

Sierra 125gr Pro Hunter bullet,
H4895 @ 42.5gr

Velocity should be around 2600 fps. Recoil? What recoil?

It may be called a youth load, but for smallish to medium sized deer and pig this is pure poison! Should produce solid results out to about 150 yards or so.

By the way, this information is straight from Hodgdons site. Listed under Youth Loads in PDF format. For the 125gr bullet it lists a Nosler 125gr BT but I used the pro hunter instead, and it worked fantastic.

My wife decided that big ole' rifle did not kick as much as she thought it was going to, then proceeded to shoot 50 rounds down range that first time out at the range! I can't wait for my daughter to get old enough.

I have to admit, it is a hoot shooting my old Springfield 03 and not getting beat up in the slightest. Some one before I bought the rifle had badly mangled the stock, LOP is only about 13", if that. I am 6'2"... I hate shooting that rifle with full power loads I would rather shoot my Winchester Stainless Stalker 300 Win mag with 208gr Amax loads ALL day than shoot more than 20rounds of full power 165's through the 03 because of that. I wont restock it now, because my wife has more or less claimed it. I owe a certain good friend a lot for showing me that load!

Good hunting sir,
Gary

 

[bowslngr]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

On your comments WRT the Barnes bullets. You should expect them to provide their maximum expansion at high velocity (as is the case with any other bullet), not the other way around. In fact, at high velocity is where they really shine. They won't come apart like a lot of cheaper bullets. Where you run into trouble with Barnes bullets is when their velociy drops too far below 2000 fps. They claim their bullets will open up at 1800-1900 depending on the bullet size in question, but they need more speed than that to open fully.

 

[Clark]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Most bullets have the same penetration over a wide range of velocities, because the lower the terminal velocity, the less the bullet expands.

Bullets then fall into categories, based on how deep they penetrate:

What does it all mean?

14 inches:
Buy shallow pentrating bullets like the Nosler Ballistic tip for shallow animals, like lung shots on deer. Watch them bang flop.

18 Inches:
In between thickness animals, like elk or bear, use in between pentrators, like partitions.

24 inches:
Buy deep penetrating bullets for deep animals like elephants, use solids.

 

[500grains]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads


Here is an article showing what various expanding rifle bullets do on game in the field:

http://www.northforkbullets.com/images/African%20Hunter%20Article.pdf

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know if I load a Barnes bullet it will zip right through these deer without much expansion at 3k fps....So what would be the best way for me to load for such a short range? Heavy and slow?
</div></div>

There will be no issue with Barnes bullets expanding. I load the 168 gr. T-TSX for my hunting rounds in my .308 win. with a muzzle velocity of about 2700 fps. They have a .470 bc and are very, very accurate.

The difference in velocity for the .308 and 30-06 is about 100-200 fps difference. A 30-06 shooting a 168 gr. T-TSX at 2800 to 2900 fps is more than adequate for whitetail, pig, and elk.

Here is a recovered 168 gr. T-TSX I pulled from a 300 lb. boar after traveling through about 36" of body. Quartering away shot, taking out the liver and lungs.

Expanded diameter is .601" and recovered weight is 167.0 gr.

 

[diriel]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

I am a big fan of the triple shocks. Now that you mention it, a very good friend of mine, who is an avid hunter, uses the 130gr tipped triple shock in his 30-06.

He is 6'2", and has been on at least a couple of African safari's. He also owns land in Alaska, and hunts there as well. 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 458 Lott, blah blah... he can take tremendous recoil and laugh about it.

What I am saying is, the OP said max of 125 yards on west texas white tail deer right? I'm not saying that the 168gr + bullets are a waste or anything like that. But for a max of 125 yards on moderately sized game? Hell why not use a 125 / 130gr bullet.

The reason I listed the Sierra Pro Hunter in a youth load is because it really is Pure Poison out to about 150 yards on deer and pig. No recoil, and more importantly the acoustic signature is reduced somewhat. If you feel a need for an all copper premium bullet, ok those are great bullets. My friend absolutely swears by them. Bang - Flop. He says tracking is for ..../shrug heh

By the way, does Tx require all copper yet? I live in Ca, so yeah, all copper is a must here. I still use the much cheaper pro hunter bullets to practice with however. I see no use in using hyper expensive all copper bullets just to go out to the range.

Good Hunting,
Gary

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

The 130 T-TSX would be outstanding on whitetail. You could get 3100-3200 fps out of the 30-06 with minimial recoil and ensure that the bullet would stay together at those velocities, even hitting bones.

I am just not sure where the thinking comes from that higher velocity means that bullets will just pencil through. If anything bullets will either separate core form jacket or fragment before getting to the vitals. With hunting bullets, they will open bigger and faster with more veolicy. If I were shooting over 3000 fps I would go with a solid copper or bonded bullet to make sure it stays together and penetrates deep.

Just my $.02

 

[michaelt454]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Barnes bullets are the most reliable hunting bullet ever designed. Their followers are a little clannish, but they have to be because they are the target of so much misinformation. They have been proven to retain their weight (i.e. penetrate) better than lead core bullets, and expand consistently at a wide range of velocities. Talk to a hunter who has actually taken game with them and get your info from them. Gun rags are a great place to read whatever it is you want to read (RE: Counter Sniper Optics). You will not be disappointed with a Barnes bullet's performance on game, just match the weight of the bullet for the task at hand and give em Hell.

Michael T.

 

[sst04]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

A friend of mine turned me on to the SST bullets. They will shoot as well as an AMax in my gun.

I shot one this weekend with a 180g SST loaded with 44g of 4064 at 110yds, exit wound was about an inch and a quarter in diameter. Internal damage was, well, pretty nasty.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Questions like these are why I only shoot handloads for target work, and only shoot commercial loads for hunting. I choose chamberings and bullet constructions based on game type, and use heavier bullets for longer distances, so terminal energy gets preserved better at distance.

Honestly, I have never been sorry about using Remington Core-Lokt Express .30-'06 loads. I use 150's because most of our terrain permits only short-medium distance shots. I keep 180's for more open terrain.

Hunting does not demand ammo perfection, it's the shot placement that counts. Commercial ammo makers have already done all the testing and confirmations of concepts. I think it's silly to try to second guess them, or reinvent the wheels they have pretty much already perfected. Hunting ammo is their bread and butter, they succeed or fail based on how many folks return for more.

Greg

 

[Clark]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

I am leaving this morning for a few weeks of hunting elk, deer, and antelope in the open country, where I have made 500 yard shots, lying down with a bi-pod.

For elk, I will be using the faddish bullet of the year, Berger VLD handloads.

Last year it was the Barnes MRX bullet, the year before that the Barnes triple shock, the year before that the Nosler Accubond, etc.

But for antlerless surplus deer, the Nolser ballistic tip through the lungs seems to work so well that there is no room for improvement.

 

[BsChoy]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 130 T-TSX would be outstanding on whitetail. You could get 3100-3200 fps out of the 30-06 with minimial recoil and ensure that the bullet would stay together at those velocities, even hitting bones.

I am just not sure where the thinking comes from that higher velocity means that bullets will just pencil through. If anything bullets will either separate core form jacket or fragment before getting to the vitals. With hunting bullets, they will open bigger and faster with more veolicy. If I were shooting over 3000 fps I would go with a solid copper or bonded bullet to make sure it stays together and penetrates deep.

Just my $.02 </div></div>

I have to say that with my 30-06 and these bullets at 3200-3300 fps the recoil is pretty comparable to a 150 at full throttle and the muzzle blast with 58 grains of 4064 is indeed incredible

 

[battlestick]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 130 T-TSX would be outstanding on whitetail. You could get 3100-3200 fps out of the 30-06 with minimial recoil and ensure that the bullet would stay together at those velocities, even hitting bones.

I am just not sure where the thinking comes from that higher velocity means that bullets will just pencil through. If anything bullets will either separate core form jacket or fragment before getting to the vitals. With hunting bullets, they will open bigger and faster with more veolicy. If I were shooting over 3000 fps I would go with a solid copper or bonded bullet to make sure it stays together and penetrates deep.

Just my $.02 </div></div>

The thinking of the Barnes not expanding at that velocity comes from my direct experience with those bullets on the smallish deer here at close ranges.

The TSX below was running ~3000 fps. Range was 75 yds. It hit no bone, and penciled clean through. Barnes are designed to expand reliably, and still hold together when they hit bone. I'm not knocking the Barnes bullets, we will still use them in my AR. However, at 75 yds running like a scalded ape, this one failed to expand. This gives me reasonable expectations that a 30 cal TSX running faster as this range would do the same.

Entry

Exit

My youngest son's first.

 

[diriel]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Out of honest curiousity what was the grain weight of the TSX? I am not saying you should use TSX, but a good friend of mine uses the 130gr TTSX in 30-06. He says they just absolutely Hammer game, including small deer like that, and pigs.

I still like the 125gr Sierra Pro Hunter. I live in CA, so I can not legally use it on game any more, but I would be willing to bet it would still work fantastically if I were legally allowed to. Cool thing is, you can load that from way down low, to Right On Up There and still absolutely KILL game like that deer in the picture. Folks get too hung up on absolute ballistics some times. Heck, if the yardage is for sure going to be 200 yards or less, dang near any good bullet placed well will more than get it done. Looks like you can put the bullets right where they belong too.

Good Hunting sir,
Gary

 

[Bromel]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

When you guys are loading the Barnes Triple Shock, do you notice an pressure difference compared to lead-core bullets of the same weight? I am working up some hunting loads for my M1 Garand 30-06, and I would like to use the Barnes Tipped Triple Shock 168 grain. But since it is solid copper and a longer bullet, I have heard from some of the M1 guys that it might cause higher pressures. As you may know, the M1 is sensitive to pressures.

 

[battlestick]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diriel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of honest curiousity what was the grain weight of the TSX?

Gary </div></div>

The TSX that went through that neck was the 62gr in 223 over 25 gr RL15. That placement was the result of my son's practice throughout the summer. He was the one that made the neckshot in that pic, at 8yo.

I am thinking about the smaller loads running hot, or the 30-30 load as suggested by MM. I just feel that the "premium" bullets will hold together too well at the ranges/velocities I will be hunting in.

Thanks for all the input and opinions.

 

[diriel]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Hard to go wrong with a 3030 type loading. They have more than stood the test of time.

In all the back and forth banter, I seem to have lost track of what combination we are really talking about here. What rifle, chambering, ect will your son be using? At one point 3006 was mentioned.

Good hunting,
Gary

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diriel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of honest curiousity what was the grain weight of the TSX?

Gary </div></div>

The TSX that went through that neck was the 62gr in 223 over 25 gr RL15. That placement was the result of my son's practice throughout the summer. He was the one that made the neckshot in that pic, at 8yo.

I am thinking about the smaller loads running hot, or the 30-30 load as suggested by MM. I just feel that the "premium" bullets will hold together too well at the ranges/velocities I will be hunting in.

Thanks for all the input and opinions.
</div></div>

I have never heard anybody saying a bullet holding together too well is a bad thing. Not trying to be a d*ck or anything it just seems funny to me.

If you go to Federal's website they have a video showing their premium bullet loads' performance from a 30-06 at 100 yards in different tests. It is a pretty cool and informative video.

On the neck-shot doe, what was the damage to the muscle and bone? BTW, congrats to you for teaching your son well and congrats to your son for taking a fine animal.

When I shot my pig I hit it center of the neck, about 3 inches back and 4 inches below the ear, and found no exit wound. I ask the taxidermist to try to locate the bullet. He told me the bullet did indeed pass through as there was a tiny exit wound, but the damage inside was devistating. His skull was fragmented, blood vessels in the brain had ruptured, his spine destroyed, and there was severe tissue damage. Barnes says on their website that their bullets will leave small exit wounds but will cause massive internal trauma. My experince has been just that. You can see evidence of this on their website videos as well.

My buddy was using the Nosler E-tips for the same hog hunt in his .270 and took a nice sow straight throught the boiler room. The exit hole in the skin was tiny, giving the appearance of a pencil through, but when we skinned it, the exit hole in the tissue was about the size of a silver dollar and the heart and lungs were a mess.

 

[Clark]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

180 gr hunting VLD 7mm 2450 fps terminal velocity exit hole from mule doe, range of 380 yards 7mRM, 10 grains Re22 over max book load.

180 gr hunting VLD 7mm 2950 fps terminal velocity exit hole from mule doe, range of 50 yards 7mRM, 10 grains Re22 over max book load.

 

[500grains]

Re: Hunting bullet reloads

Congrats! A 380 yard shot is very good for a rifle whose recoil pad does not fit properly.

Looks like the VLD bullets are opening up just fine.