Hybrid Hunting/Target Rifle - Best Barrel Contour?

[j3fff]

In the process of building a light(ish) weight hybrid rifle.

So far I’ve got an XLR Element and will be using a Big Horn Origin for the action, caliber will be 6.5 Creedmore. I will be running the barrel at ~20” to go suppressed in the future.

I can get a well priced M24 cut rifled blank but I’m worried that even at 20” it will be too heavy. Short and fat is ideal for rigidity but I don’t know it it’s necessary compared to a rem sendero or light Palma to shave over a pound relative to the M24.

Would love some advise!

 

[nn8734]

I like the Remington sendero contour found on the old PSS rifles. Heavy enough for precison target work but light enough to carry into the back country. I have a Remington 700 with a Bartlein M40/M24 contour cut to 20”. Shoots half dollar size groups at 300 but wouldn’t want to haul that thing all over the place. Have a Sako TRG S for hunting.

 

[b6graham]

M24 is Heavy. Especially for a hunting rig. Says the guy who is putting a 27" heavy varmint on his.

I'd look more at a heavy proof if funds allow. Or a medium palma is a decent compromise

 

[MachoKing]

Many of my friends have went with a contour similar to a Bartlein 3b.

 

[perttime]

A chassis is usually heavier than a stock.

 

[niteshooter]

I’d vote sendero contour.
Better eat your Wheaties to carry a long m24 contour all day or night several miles.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Sportsman contour. Slightly lighter than medium palms, heavy enough to shoot matches with. I have one on my back up match rifle. Great contour.

 

[MtnCreek]

An xlr chassis is awkward to carry in a ready position and sendero aint light.

 

[B-P-UU]

Bart 3B or 4 is a nice comprise. M24 will be a pig even at 20"

 

[308220]

Sendero or Savage Varmint. I have the Sendero on both my 308, and 6.5-284. 308 is 18" and 284 is 26". Both are fluted and neither rig weighs over 11lbs with scope.

 

[daves37120]

Another vote for the Remington Sendero.

 

[317millhand]

proof carbon fiber sendero

 

[j3fff]

I’m thinking Bartlein Rem Varm/Sendero with a 1:7.5 twist.

The XLR element comes in only at like half a pound more than most lightweight composite tactical stocks that have a cheek riser, and I’ll take that penalty for a nice chassis without the need for bedding at $445 with their Black Friday sale.

My estimates are ~3.5lb for chassis, ~3.25lb for a 3B ( ~3.75lb for the rem sendero) 2lb for the Origin so ~9 pounds without scope for the 3B and ~9.5 for the rem sendero.

 

[nn8734]

You should be good to go with the Sendero. As mentioned above, it’s my preferred choice for barrel contour in a tactical type rifle that I also may have to carry.

That said, if you haven’t already done so, look into a pack like Eberlestock. Great for backpacking with a long gun. I use a G3 Phantom and it works perfectly for that application.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Fluted Sendero or a fluted bartlien 3b would be my choice

maybe even a light palma as well.

 

[j3fff]

I’m thinking a bull sporter of some variety will probably work out with the 6.5mm diameter cartridge.

 

[Diver160651]

In the process of building a light(ish) weight hybrid rifle.

So far I’ve got an XLR Element and will be using a Big Horn Origin for the action, caliber will be 6.5 Creedmore. I will be running the barrel at ~20” to go suppressed in the future.

I can get a well priced M24 cut rifled blank but I’m worried that even at 20” it will be too heavy. Short and fat is ideal for rigidity but I don’t know it it’s necessary compared to a rem sendero or light Palma to shave over a pound relative to the M24.

Would love some advise!

I did the same but used a proof to make it duel purpose

 

[wade2big]

Use the same barrel contour as a tikka ctr. It will be a better all around contour than a rem varmint for sure. I want to say that the barrels measure 3/4” at the muzzle. I would have to measure mine.

A rem varmint isn’t a bad contour at all, but it is getting up there as far as weight is concerned.

 

[j3fff]

Use the same barrel contour as a tikka ctr. It will be a better all around contour than a rem varmint for sure. I want to say that the barrels measure 3/4” at the muzzle. I would have to measure mine.

A rem varmint isn’t a bad contour at all, but it is getting up there as far as weight is concerned.

It’s probably close to a light Palma then at that muzzle width, 3B would be close, maybe a tad smaller.

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

I have had Bartlein make me a light palma but muzzle finished at 0.750” at 24” and it works out to be a good balance.

 

[MATADOR]

I have had Bartlein make me a light palma but muzzle finished at 0.750” at 24” and it works out to be a good balance.

This

 

[j3fff]

I have had Bartlein make me a light palma but muzzle finished at 0.750” at 24” and it works out to be a good balance.

So that would make it slightly lighter than a standard light Palma. I like it, but need to go with something in stock and can’t do the 6 months wait

 

[Bluegrassvw]

Get something that finishes at .685 - .585.
My hunting rig is a 6.5 w/ a 22.75" McGowan in Savage Magnum (barrel weighs about 3.25lbs w/flutes) I've been all over with it and it's a bit heavy at 11lbs w/ scope and Can hanging off the end. I did run it with a chassis at one point and it was just over 12lbs. Not so fun when hiking mountains... If I could do it again, I'd go with a smaller diameter barrel or have it stepped down sooner. Keep the barrel under 3lbs!

 

[wade2big]

Get something that finishes at .685 - .585.
My hunting rig is a 6.5 w/ a 22.75" McGowan in Savage Magnum (barrel weighs about 3.25lbs w/flutes) I've been all over with it and it's a bit heavy at 11lbs w/ scope and Can hanging off the end. I did run it with a chassis at one point and it was just over 12lbs. Not so fun when hiking mountains... If I could do it again, I'd go with a smaller diameter barrel or have it stepped down sooner. Keep the barrel under 3lbs!

You can do it again. It’s only money. Lol.
Anything with a can on the end will be heavier and longer then it would be if it weren’t there. Nothing will change that. It’s the penalty to pay if you want to use one. I will just make noise when I hunt and only shoot a round or two. I keep it quiet when I am at home banging steel.

 

[wapiti16b]

If you are going to hunt with it mostly a Proof Bull @ 20 with a can ( TBAC ) would be my choice , not so sure about a chassis if weight is a factor if not it's fine . For hunting with this set-up I'd go MDT as minimal as is needed . If competition is the priority any high tier medium palma un-fluted would be a cost saving option !

 

[shooter65]

Marksman

 

[Niles Coyote]

I've run a medium palma, several remington varmints and a m24/m40. I hated the weight of the latter for a carried rifle. The other two are so close I go by which is available. If that isn't an option I lean remington varmint.

 

[j3fff]

I’m thinking the rem Varmint will be perfect at 20”.

I also want to run a 7.5 twist for the heavies and for in stock barrels rem Varmint is the lightest option available with a 7.5 twist.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I ran a 20" Remington varmint 308 in a hs stock, alloy mount and a 3.5-10x40 mk4 for a few years. That was a well balanced rifle and came in at 10.5 pounds total as described.

 

[Boogieman84]

I’m also struggling with the same question on my recent Bighorn build. I’m not running a can so my target finished length is 24” and it’s going to be a 7 Rem Mag. I’ve narrowed my choices down to a Bartlein #4 Bull Sporter or Rem Sendero, both with heavy straight fluting, or a Proof Carbon Sendero (Savage Small Shank Pre-Fit). I’m having a hard time making a decision. I want something light enough to hunt with but heavy enough that it won’t get crazy hot in 3 shots when I’m banging steel. I understand that’s a tall order for a belted magnum. Decision, decisions...

 

[Diablo]

yeah......I really like the 300winmag, but am a dinosaur that has typically done builds with AMU/MTU in past years. Fluting can take some of the weight off.

Unless you will be running long strings (bunch of rounds in say 20 minutes or less), then a lighter contour (sendero, rem varmint, etc.) should be good for you. I had a 7 rem mag for several years using sendero and Rem varmint contour barrels before having GAP rebuild/rebarrel it for my 6.5-300WSM, and the lighter contour worked good. I also like the GAP contour on my 6mm GAP whizbanger (Moon built), it has been a good choice with the length of Bartlein barrels for the 115gr DTACs.

Recall jByrd saying something like: MTU = massive torture uphill

Someone else (Graham maybe?) that pointed out that if you get to ride everywhere then having a heavy barrel is OK................but if you have to hump it, try to make it outa balsa wood........or something kind like that........

 

[wade2big]

I’m also struggling with the same question on my recent Bighorn build. I’m not running a can so my target finished length is 24” and it’s going to be a 7 Rem Mag. I’ve narrowed my choices down to a Bartlein #4 Bull Sporter or Rem Sendero, both with heavy straight fluting, or a Proof Sendero. I’m having a hard time making a decision. I want something light enough to hunt with but heavy enough that it won’t get crazy hot in 3 shots when I’m banging steel. I understand that’s a tall order for a belted magnum. Decision, decisions...

7mm magnums get hot. My dad rebarreled his rem700 with a 26” barlein remington varmint contour. Its one of his hunting rifles but we bring it out and hit some steel with it every now and again. The remington varmint will suit your needs just fine without being too heavy and is still comfortablt to shoot a box of ammo through without a brake.

 

[Boogieman84]

@wade2big and @Diablo Thanks for the first hand experience and info. If I decide to go with a traditional stainless barrel and not a Proof CF I believe you are right on the money. The Rem Varmint/Sendero contour with some fluting would most likely be the best compromise.

 

[wapiti16b]

So if short and fat is where it's at in 6.5CM and weight & barrel stiffness ! , I ammend my previous suggestion $$$ not a concern and recommend a Proof Bull threaded for a brake/can as long as you plan on 2,000 rounds or so depending on your loads !
Fluting reduces barrel stiffness and depending on barrel maker stress induced by the fluting process .
I don't know if their is a perfect solution and I'm in a similar situation with a different cartridge for dual usage . The PR Sendero seems to be the best choice for me !
As long as long quick strings of fire are not a concern the Proof in 6.5 CM would be my first choice vs a fluted barrel !

 

[j3fff]

So if short and fat is where it's at in 6.5CM and weight & barrel stiffness ! , I ammend my previous suggestion $$$ not a concern and recommend a Proof Bull threaded for a brake/can as long as you plan on 2,000 rounds or so depending on your loads !
Fluting reduces barrel stiffness and depending on barrel maker stress induced by the fluting process .
I don't know if their is a perfect solution and I'm in a similar situation with a different cartridge for dual usage . The PR Sendero seems to be the best choice for me !
As long as long quick strings of fire are not a concern the Proof in 6.5 CM would be my first choice vs a fluted barrel !

Someone mentioned change in POI while shooting suppressed with the proof CF? Don’t remember how drastic and/or if it was just a one off case

 

[perttime]

Someone mentioned change in POI while shooting suppressed with the proof CF? Don’t remember how drastic and/or if it was just a one off case

Isn't change in POI always happening between suppressed and not? Different barrel harmonics, and most likely muzzle velocity.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Yes, any muzzle device that changes the dynamics of how a rifle recoils will change POI to some degree.

 

[Stooxie]

Isn't change in POI always happening between suppressed and not? Different barrel harmonics, and most likely muzzle velocity.

Yes, and barrel droop as well. Hanging a pound or two of weight off the end will absolutely cause the muzzle to dip down a bit. There is a cool calculator on the internet that will show you how much a tube will bend given thickness, bore and length. It can be several thousands of a inch!

My general experience is about a 2" drop at 100 yards when warm and up to 4" drop when everything is very cold (i.e. hunting in cold weather).

-Stooxie

 

[D2junky]

Proof sheds weight. Proof Savage prefit sheds more weight as the shank is much smaller for the first few inches.
I have a TL3 with proof savage prefit 223 at 20” in an edge Game Warden and the balance is perfect.

 

[wade2big]

Someone mentioned change in POI while shooting suppressed with the proof CF? Don’t remember how drastic and/or if it was just a one off case

Suppressors will always change point of impact. The thinner the barrel the more it changes. The thicker the barrel the less. If two barrels have the same thickness, rem varmint for example, the shorter barrel will have less POI change.

This is what I found when moving a suppressor around on my rifles. Its a small sample of a few rifles with diffrent contours and some with the same contour and different lengths.

 

[wade2big]

Yes, any muzzle device that changes the dynamics of how a rifle recoils will change POI to some degree.

This isnt completely true. I have shot through a few different muzzle brakes and have no shift in POI. I have used a MPA brake and currently have a PVA brake. Dial for 750 yards and put a couple on a 12” plate. Take off the brake and duplicate. This is with rem varmint and heavy palma contours. It may not be the same with lighter barrels. I may go shoot my tikka CTR in a bit and see if it works the same with a smaller OD barrel.

 

[Stooxie]

I have wrestled with this question a couple times. I also read somewhere that the number one mistake people make (were they to do it over again) is getting a barrel that's too heavy.

I built a Tikka T3 with Criterion pre-fit barrel (7mm-08, 18") in a custom medium-palma contour. It's 0.800 at the muzzle and follows a CTR taper. It's gorgeous, stiff, prints tiny bughole groups, and is definitely on the heavy side! It's a thick ass barrel for hunting. In retrospect I'd probably have gone with something closer to a light palma contour.

When I ordered my 6.8 SPC McGowan Tikka barrel (which should be in my hands this week), I wrestled with this again. I REALLY wanted a lightweight rifle but I hate "thin" barrels. Initially I went with a #5 contour but then chickened out and switched it to #4. It's still going to be 0.650 at the muzzle which ought to do just fine.

-Stooxie

 

[wade2big]

I have wrestled with this question a couple times. I also read somewhere that the number one mistake people make (were they to do it over again) is getting a barrel that's too heavy.

I built a Tikka T3 with Criterion pre-fit barrel (7mm-08, 18") in a custom medium-palma contour. It's 0.800 at the muzzle and follows a CTR taper. It's gorgeous, stiff, prints tiny bughole groups, and is definitely on the heavy side! It's a thick ass barrel for hunting. In retrospect I'd probably have gone with something closer to a light palma contour.

When I ordered my 6.8 SPC McGowan Tikka barrel (which should be in my hands this week), I wrestled with this again. I REALLY wanted a lightweight rifle but I hate "thin" barrels. Initially I went with a #5 contour but then chickened out and switched it to #4. It's still going to be 0.650 at the muzzle which ought to do just fine.

-Stooxie

Its only a mistake if you think it is. If you like heavy barrels for hunting then just roll with it. There isnt a right or wrong. Its only preference.

Light barrels can and will shoot just as good. My .270 win has a sporter barrel on it and i can hit a 6” plate at 500 yards just as easy as my heavier guns. It makes absolutely zero difference. Lighter rifles in bigger calibers arent as enjoyable to practice with. Thats the only difference i can find. I do like lighter barrels for hunting as i feel i give up nothing as far as hitting where I point.

If you want to hunt suppressed then naturally the barrel has to be a little thicker to thread. Add the barrel thickness plus the suppressor weight and you are probably back equal with a rem varmint/med palma weight unsuppressed.

 

[j3fff]

Isn't change in POI always happening between suppressed and not? Different barrel harmonics, and most likely muzzle velocity.

The instance I’m talking about is POI shifts while shooting strings suppressed vs no major POI shifts while shooting strings unsuppressed, not POI shifts going from unsupressed to suppressed.

 

[Boogieman84]

Proof sheds weight. Proof Savage prefit sheds more weight as the shank is much smaller for the first few inches.
I have a TL3 with proof savage prefit 223 at 20” in an edge Game Warden and the balance is perfect.

This is good to know and great news. Thanks for the info. I have a Bighorn as well and will be purchasing a Proof CF Savage Pre-Fit in 7 Rem Mag for it soon. Looking forward to shedding the weight as the rifle is at 13lbs right now with a factory Savage Varmint barrel on it with scope and bipod.

 

[TexasUplander]

I think a Bart 3b is about as heavy as a real hunting rifle should ever need to be and would pull double duty fairly well.