Rifle Scopes i dont see much love for USO.... anyone have an opinion as to why?

myronman3

myronman3

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Mar 24, 2017
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#1
title pretty much says it. i've read through quite a few old threads, and joined over the weekend....my main motivation being buying a scope from a member here.

that being said, in reading online of other people's experiences in order to help me sift through what i want versus what i do not, it seems that folks generally dont have anything against USO...but they also seem to go other directions. and i am curious as to why that is.

from what i can tell, their quality is not regarded as the best there is.....edged out by x,y, or z. the fact that they are made in america, is a big factor to me.

as i am looking for opinions....i'll take the good, bad, and the ugly. thanks in advance for sharing yours.
 
#2
myronman3 said:
it seems that folks generally dont have anything against USO...but they also seem to go other directions. and i am curious as to why that is.
Click to expand...

Because USO set their ship off on course in one direction forever ago and hasnt deviated from that course in any manner. Just dated designs that, while still good and robust, have stagnated while the competitors continued to progress forwards rather than just floating idly.

I wouldnt turn one down but I wouldnt spend my money on one with all of the other options available.
 
#3
I bought one once. Was a great optic and had really nice glass. I bought it used and the seller made it seem like it was cared for more then it really was. I received it and shipped it straight to USO. There customer service was outstanding. Cleaned and checked out at no coast and sent back with everything it should have originally came with. I eventually sold it. I wouldn't be hesitant to have another one. But like leupold, I don't see them offering new products every few years like other manufacturers. If your looking for latest and greatest with best features...look elsewhere. If you want the tried and true approach I don't think you will be upset with one.
 
#5
They've been "behind the 8 ball" for a long time, it's seems neither new innovation nor the desire to meet the wants and wishes of customers is there, they simply are passed by for consideration by most new scope buyers when there are so many other great choices out they by scope companies that keep creating better glass and features.
If "built in the USA" is importent to you, take a look at the AMG by Vortex. It's a very nice piece of glass.
 
#6
I've always wanted to try a USO and the new B series made me consider doing it, but in the end I went in another direction. I wouldn't consider the old series of USO scopes at all because of the lack of features.
The baseball bat size of their 5-25 isn't very attractive at all.
If you want "made in the USA" the closest you'll get is the AMG, but nightforce is also very good. I have an AMG and had a NF and they are both fantastic.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
 
#8
I have two USO products a 1-8X and there copy of the Unertl Marine Sniper Telescope.

My 1-8X is great for what I use it for as a carbine optic. It's plenty robust, almost Soviet in its design. If I have an issue they will take care of it.

The MST100 is on my M40A1. It is appropriate that USO has the Unertl design prints to remake this scope because it fits their profile - not a lot of glamour, if anything a bit quirky, built tough, just works.
 
#9
I still own a 22x, 58mm SN-3 an have never had issue with it from new (2004) to-date. I went back to Leupold as I wanted 1 moa up knobs, small objective, a hold it all reticle, an weight saving. Bench or ground is one thing but hump it day in day out, lite is right. I also learned over the years less is more, most all the time.
 
#11
I had a USO ER 25 , great optic for my uses. They're big , tough and very basic, just like my ol' lady . I think there's better value to be had in other scopes, but I never felt handicapped by my USO. I'll own another one some day.
 
#12
I have two Uso's. An ER 25 and LR 17. I can tell you that I think they are top notch scopes. The scope's glass is amazing. I've used other scopes and got rid of them. I do agree that the old design might not be flashy and the "new" thing, but I can tell you they work in all environments and conditions. You will never have to worry about it failing. I'm waiting on my B25 now.
 
#13
They are better than a fucking Vortex I can tell you that. They are not the cool thing anymore. However, if you can get a Schmidt for a few hundred more do that.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 
#14
The biggest issues are: the erector on the EREK model limits single mounts, rings are no problem. The USO is also a heavy and generally long optic --you can use it for a hammer in a pinch. I bought a LR-17 mil/mil, EREK, illum., GAP reticle, etc., and it's a damn fine scope and when I scope this HTI it's probably coming down to the USO 5-25 or the S&B. I do like a lighter optic on an AR and since that what most people are shooting, well, you get the idea. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a tougher scope though.

I heard of one that got crushed during shipping, box was practically gone. Shredded. Scope looked like it had been through a garbage disposal. Worked like new and USO replaced it.

They do have some new stuff but they add and remove models slowly --how I'd do it were I in business. I like shit that works, not shit that gets recalled every five years. But IIRC they were the first ones to come out with the dual reticle technology (SFP dot and FFP reticle). If they didn't invent it (either exclusively or simultaneously or not at all) they were one of the first to implement it.

They had a huge 40x optic with external adj. until March took that market away. You can still find 'em from time to time. That was a true American Original if I do say so.
 
#15
Glad this thread is here. I'm looking to scope my RPR with a LR17 GAP mil/mil and was wondering the same thing. I only ever see pics of USO's on other rifles from matches and such. I'm the kinda guy that likes the "Tank" quality and build of the USO's. I can also see myself replacing rifles before replacing the scope. Think EuroOptics has sale on them right now. The new B series looks good but I really want the LR17 style.
 
#16
I liked my USO's but they all got sold and other choices top my tools now. I guess they just fell outta favor on my stuff.
 
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#17
spife7980 said:
Because USO set their ship off on course in one direction forever ago and hasnt deviated from that course in any manner. Just dated designs that, while still good and robust, have stagnated while the competitors continued to progress forwards rather than just floating idly.

I wouldnt turn one down but I wouldnt spend my money on one with all of the other options available.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up. USO was my first high end optic i owned and the only one thus far i haven't had the heart to sell. I love my SN-3 but USO hasn't done much to stick with market trends. That's fine, but most of us aren't looking for he same ole same ole anymore. Granted they did move in the right direction somewhat with the B series. But the scopes are still huge, still moderately heavy (though that's minor), and there is still no viable tree style comp reticle unless you want horus. Prices are also still pretty high when you can get same mag range, smaller scope, better reticle, and equal or better glass for 300-700$ less.

So yeah stagnation pretty much. I've been shooting my SN-3 for almost 8 years now. It's a great optic and was excellent for it's time. However for 2500$, 2100ish most of the time if you're willing to call the gen II razor really can't be matched IMHO. This is for the money for a competition oriented scope. The new ERS Gen II might shake things up a bit though.

 
#18
I guess that's it. If you want a tank that is reliable and "same old, same old" then you want the USO. Killswitch has a good review of a 1-8 and much of what he says applies to all their scopes (it's a good read period). Yes, there are better scopes, more technical scopes newer scopes and lighter scopes but you'll be hard pressed to find a tougher scope. It WILL add noticeable weight to your rifle and is long, but I use 'em on .338's and .50's so a lb. or so isn't gonna matter that much. It's currently on an M110 but not for long, way too long and heavy for that rifle, if that helps any. Plan on putting it on a TRG42 --another oldie but goodie that's been around longer than most would expect.

Heavy duty, weight not an option, solid AND you can get one for a good price? Go for it. If weight or length become a variable, look elsewhere. That's about all I can say for USO at the moment. Boringly reliable but on the heavy end. And the erector limits one piece mounts, really only an issue with AR's IME.
 
#19
I had a 3.8-22 as well as one of the first batch of DFP scopes years ago. Both of them showed up with debris in the field of view inside the scope and the 3.8-22 would completely skip like 1.2 mils in the tracking test. Both were sent back. I did not have the "tried and true" or "it just works" experience like some others. I highly suggest you look elsewhere.
 
#20
The USO ST 10 scope I owned was an outstanding 10X scope in all respects. Yes it was a little heavier than most other 10X scopes but that was of no consequence to me. Only reason I sold it was my eyesight went south as I aged and I needed more magnification.
 
#21
nexusfire said:
They are better than a fucking Vortex I can tell you that. They are not the cool thing anymore. However, if you can get a Schmidt for a few hundred more do that.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Are you basing this on personal experience with Vortex Razer gen 2 line or PST ?
 
#22
Must be a PST because if it's a Razor II it's BS. Sorry but after owning multiples of both the USO doesn't have the features the Razor II does.
 
#23
They lost me when they transitioned away from being custom built with a plethora of options. I actually like the Ergo objective and think the look fits on some builds rather nicely. Still have an ST-10.

Th new B series looks to be a step in the right direction but as others have said the players in that price point are still IMHO better.

A decade ago your only options were Loopy SFP MK4, Nightforce SFP NSX, USO and SB in order of quality and price.

Today one can choose from a huge selection of quality FFP, Mil/Mil optics from under 1k to 4k and everything in between.

Personaly I think JBW3 was/is one of the most knowledgeable and stand up OG members of this community but he is pursuing other interests outside of USO and I wish him and the company all the best.

Oh and lets not forget Buttercup!
 
#25
Hopefully the B series is as good as people are saying. They needed the upgrades. If the new line is featured and priced right they will be in a good spot.

And I agree JBW3 is a great guy and I always had fun hanging and talking with him. Is he still connected to the company? I thought I had heard he left but wasn't sure if he kept any connection.
 
#26
From what I gathered he still is the principal owner with largest stake but is no longer involved in operations. Might be bad info but it sounded as if he sold a considerable chunk to the employees so its a partner owned company which is a cool model.

From linkedin he is pursuing other defense manufacturing type consulting roles, have no clue what that may be.
 
#28
Anchor Zero Six said:
They lost me when they transitioned away from being custom built with a plethora of options. I actually like the Ergo objective and think the look fits on some builds rather nicely. Still have an ST-10.

Th new B series looks to be a step in the right direction but as others have said the players in that price point are still IMHO better.

A decade ago your only options were Loopy SFP MK4, Nightforce SFP NSX, USO and SB in order of quality and price.

Today one can choose from a huge selection of quality FFP, Mil/Mil optics from under 1k to 4k and everything in between.

Personaly I think JBW3 was/is one of the most knowledgeable and stand up OG members of this community but he is pursuing other interests outside of USO and I wish him and the company all the best.

Oh and lets not forget Buttercup!
Click to expand...

Love the ergo myself, i think it's one of if not the most forgiving parallax setup i've ever used. Wish they would've kept that design. I still like the aesthetics of it as well. What i wanted to see with the B series was a more compact lineup, a new tree style comp reticle, and locking turrets. Only one of those features made the spec sheet. That's the thing about the B-25 it might be nice but it's ungodly big at 18" without a sunshade.

I mean arguably if you played softball and shot a match before you could just dismount your B-25 instead of taking a bat.
 
#32
I ran into JBW3 at OC Custom Coatings last year. If I remember correctly, I thought he actually sold USO and was no longer affiliated. But with my memory.......

I know he is now doing gunsmithing, which he said he really enjoys. The business card he gave me says DDC Firearms. I forgot what DDC stood for?
 
#34
Anchor Zero Six said:
From what I gathered he still is the principal owner with largest stake but is no longer involved in operations. Might be bad info but it sounded as if he sold a considerable chunk to the employees so its a partner owned company which is a cool model.

From linkedin he is pursuing other defense manufacturing type consulting roles, have no clue what that may be.
Click to expand...

Did he sell to Arnold? The second in command?
 
#37
JBW3 is a super nice guy. He gave me a 1-4 optic to use in Iraq for a year. Said to beat it up, use the heck out of it. Our issued optics were not the best in 04/05 so I did just that. Sent it back to him with a shirt and a hat and a big thank you.

I will say that I did not have the best luck with a SN3. The EREK knob would not track properly and did not get fixed satisfactorily. I think the increased number of quality manufacturers wth their superior designs/innovation have surpassed USO at this time. I do love their MST-100....it's a nostalgic piece of artistic weaponry.
 
#38
I had an ST-10 that I really liked on my LTR. It was perfect for what I needed at that time. I really appreciated that I could order it with left handed windage. I have moved on to other manufacturers but none that I am aware of will allow the degree of customization USO did.
 
#39
I got excited when I heard of the new scope design at shot show 2017. When I heard the name, Model B, Plan B, it sounded 2nd rate. Then I saw it, It looked the same. To me it seems like a dated design from the the word GO! A day late and a dollar short. On the other hand I've never look through or owned one, so maybe I'm being a little harsh? To me, there designs are just a step up from the original Unertal 10x(not spelled right and I don't care.) I know if it was still the 90's they would be crushing it! I just like clean and robust designs. I don't know anyone who owns one or has shot one. I could see how if you've been in the Corp, you would feel different. It would be nice to hear LowLight chime in?
 
#40
Unertl and USO have no connection but USO did do some work for the USMC when Unertl went away.

I'm guessing that's how USO ended up with the engineering package for the Unertl Marine Sniper Telescope so that is why/how they make the repro MST100.

The MST 100 isn't hard to set up but it isn't easy either - its quirky - fixing the parallax, locking it down, checking to see it didn't move, adjusting the erector...for its time and what it was designed to do it was probably awesome sauce but now a days - its dated. You buy one for nostalgia or for a historical build, or because you think you need a steel tubed beast that is indestructible.

I do see similarity between the Unertl and the USO in how they zero the erector by moving the elevation stem to match the turret marking rather than turning the turret to achieve zero than freeing the turret from the stem to spin to zero.

I wonder if USO picked up the Unertl method of zeroing the elevation?

When USO did the refurbs on the Unertl USMC scopes I think they out Unertl'd Unertl. By going to the coil spring they adopted a design Unertl used on their external mount scopes. That mod is arguably an improvement on the leaf springs Unertl originally used on the USMC scopes.

That's my undocumented guess about the relationship between the two companies.

 
#41
IanHusaberg said:
I got excited when I heard of the new scope design at shot show 2017. When I heard the name, Model B, Plan B, it sounded 2nd rate. Then I saw it, It looked the same. To me it seems like a dated design from the the word GO! A day late and a dollar short. On the other hand I've never look through or owned one, so maybe I'm being a little harsh? To me, there designs are just a step up from the original Unertal 10x(not spelled right and I don't care.) I know if it was still the 90's they would be crushing it! I just like clean and robust designs. I don't know anyone who owns one or has shot one. I could see how if you've been in the Corp, you would feel different. It would be nice to hear LowLight chime in?
Click to expand...

It's not a dated design. Everything on this scope is new.
 
#42
918v said:
It's not a dated design. Everything on this scope is new.
Click to expand...

It's just me. I judged a book by its cover. I would like to be proved wrong and look through one, even purchase one some day! At a reasonable price these days, as this seams to be where to market is headed. All the high end features with good, not great glass at a price point affordable to the meat mortal! Think Vortex, Sig Sauer, Athlon, Burris, to name a few. I'm thinking made in Japan, higher end for these brands. Not made in China! All the works for around a $1000.00 +/-. I'm thinking of getting the job done, tracking, zero stop, light weightish, illumination, Internal travel to get out to at least a 1000yards. Is that too much too ask???!?!?!?
 
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#44
pmclaine said:
Unertl and USO have no connection but USO did do some work for the USMC when Unertl went away.

I'm guessing that's how USO ended up with the engineering package for the Unertl Marine Sniper Telescope so that is why/how they make the repro MST100.

The MST 100 isn't hard to set up but it isn't easy either - its quirky - fixing the parallax, locking it down, checking to see it didn't move, adjusting the erector...for its time and what it was designed to do it was probably awesome sauce but now a days - its dated. You buy one for nostalgia or for a historical build, or because you think you need a steel tubed beast that is indestructible.

I do see similarity between the Unertl and the USO in how they zero the erector by moving the elevation stem to match the turret marking rather than turning the turret to achieve zero than freeing the turret from the stem to spin to zero.

I wonder if USO picked up the Unertl method of zeroing the elevation?

When USO did the refurbs on the Unertl USMC scopes I think they out Unertl'd Unertl. By going to the coil spring they adopted a design Unertl used on their external mount scopes. That mod is arguably an improvement on the leaf springs Unertl originally used on the USMC scopes.

That's my undocumented guess about the relationship between the two companies.
Click to expand...

When Unertl passed away (1980's?) USO was awarded the maintenance contract along with the spare parts inventory. Once spares were depleted they manufactured parts. Not sure of the timeline but USO kept the Marines in working scopes for a long time so hats off to them for that. Not sure if any of the all USO built scopes made it into service but I would guess so as some of the return scopes must have been damaged beyond repair. There are a few guys on here that know the history of all this in great detail...I'm not one of them lol.

JBW2 was a no shit optical genius/expert pioneer in his own right in the same caliber as Unertl, Fecker and Thomas he passed away in a vehicle accident (motorcycle if I recall) in the late 90's. JBW3 jumped in and kept the legacy going and I feel really brought to market much innovation we see today. I think we now take for granted what was accomplished by a handful of individuals vs today's CAD manufacturing with teams of engineers working on projects. Many of the features we take for granted now were developed by a select few.

Pre Google USO had a printed catalog that read more like a reference book in all things optical/mechanical explained in detail but yet in layman terms. Wish I could find it again.

 
#46
Anchor Zero Six said:
When Unertl passed away (1980's?) USO was awarded the maintenance contract along with the spare parts inventory. Once spares were depleted they manufactured parts. Not sure of the timeline but USO kept the Marines in working scopes for a long time so hats off to them for that. Not sure if any of the all USO built scopes made it into service but I would guess so as some of the return scopes must have been damaged beyond repair. There are a few guys on here that know the history of all this in great detail...I'm not one of them lol.

JBW2 was a no shit optical genius/expert pioneer in his own right in the same caliber as Unertl, Fecker and Thomas he passed away in a vehicle accident (motorcycle if I recall) in the late 90's. JBW3 jumped in and kept the legacy going and I feel really brought to market much innovation we see today. I think we now take for granted what was accomplished by a handful of individuals vs today's CAD manufacturing with teams of engineers working on projects. Many of the features we take for granted now were developed by a select few.

Pre Google USO had a printed catalog that read more like a reference book in all things optical/mechanical explained in detail but yet in layman terms. Wish I could find it again.
Click to expand...

Hmm your post brings sense to a picture Kelly McMillan posted over at M40 rifle.

The USMC gave his dad a dewat M40A1 and it sports a USO MST 100.

The MST looks well used. The erector housing is marked USO but doesn't have the coil spring mod.

Im guessing it was an early USO repair, perhaps a whole build, that they did before coming up with the coil spring.

Weird though the scope appears to have a .50 cal elevation cap but is not marked .50 cal.
 
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#47
There's lots of love for USO here, though a lot of owners just don't post about them as much as a few years ago. I had also noticed a drop in the number of people posting about them... while also knowing that a lot of folks are still happily and quietly using them to great effect. Quietly making noise... to steal a line from Jimmy Buffet.

Maybe it's because every time folks extolled the virtues of their USO's, it was followed by a litany of responses from snipery guys with Gucciflage that generally read "'My Sooper Sniper is as good at 1/4 the price' and 'the glass in my Tasco is better....'" Just got tiresome. So why bother?

I drank the USO Kool-aid years ago. There are some other, equally-good Tier-one optics. We all know the names. I won't call them better. But I certainly won't call any of them worse, either. At that level in optics, everything is so well-built that it comes down to personal preference and what features/style/capabilities you are looking for to perform a given task.

I just settled on USO and will stick with them. I suspect that there are a lot of folks here that are in the same boat.

To the OP.... this is a great place to buy an optic. I've bought several scopes and the like from members. Always felt I was treated great! There is a lot of honor here when it comes to 'hoss tradin.'

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
#49
After going through 3 of the 1-8x scopes when they came out and having the red dot be totally fucked up, bloomed like crazy or .5mil off center, I gave up.

Since then they've had zero innovation or anything that's caught my attention. With the amount of quality manufacturers now, its easy to be forgotten.
 
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