I know there is an easy answer...

[Jellyroll22]

I am attempting to reload .223 flat based bullets ( varmint grenade 55gr and speer 70gr ). I have loaded several thousand NBT with the beveled base, but the flat based bullets will not go into the case mouth. I am using a RCBS press with RCBS dies.

I have read everything I have, the RCBS manual, and several reloading books. I cannot figure out how to flare the case mouth more to accept these bullets. Nothing on the decapping pin / sizing die seems to be the right size to flare the mouth anymore, ( nor does it seem adjustable). Everything I have read makes it sound very simply, but I can't figure it out. It's driving me nuts because I know I am missing an easy one..........help

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

case mouth flare die
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=140461
I am sure other manufacturers offer their versions

 

[Larry Burchfield]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

Have you beveled the inside of the case mouth? This really helps
larryj

 

[Jellyroll22]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

Yep, I tried bevelng the case mouth and it still seems like the base of the bullet and the case mouth are exactly the same size, which won't let the bullet sit still to ride the ram up and be seated properly.

I have made sure I am using .224 and using the right dies.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

Jelly Roll,

Your die may be too tight in the neck. You might try a different/larger expander ball or you may need to find a different die.
Also, as larryj noted, chamfering(or even over-chamfering) the case mouth should get you enough 'angle' to let your bullet ride the neck up in your bullet seating die, and seat normally. I have made sure I chamfered well before seating completely flat based bullets. When chamfering, I've never lost a case.

 

[tfsron]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...


JR check:
1. Case neck inside diameter under size due to expander ball under size or neck too hard (needs anneal).
2. Needs more bevel on case neck or try different angle bevel.
3. Check your seating die for excessive clearance and out of alignment (remove the seater stem with a case in the die, bullet path should be straight in with no lip or no more lip than radius on bullet base can handle).

Pull seated bullets and check for marks that indicate where the problem lies. Marks on one side should be alignment/clearance issues in the seater die; all the way around should be case neck issues. I believe that there should be no marks on the bullet in a perfect situation.

Use your callipers to check inside neck size and bevel. The radius on the bullet base will let you get by with a little smaller diameter on the case mouth at the end of the bevel if seater die is good, but not much.

I hope this helps.

Good shooting
Ron

 

[RoughNeck182]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

I found I had that problem too with flat base bullets until I started using a lee collet neck sizing die. It seems to leave a bit of flare at the mouth that makes getting the bullet started in the neck waaaay easier, unless that's just a fluke with my die. My lee loader kit also came with a small case mouth flaring tool which I haven't really had occassion to use but I only paid $15 canadian for the kit and got myself a hand priming tool, primer pocket cleaning tool, and mouth flare tool besides the die itself so it may be worth getting the kit to give it a try.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

"I found I had that problem too with flat base bullets until I started using a lee collet neck sizing die. It seems to leave a bit of flare at the mouth that makes getting the bullet started in the neck waaaay easier, unless that's just a fluke with my die."

I never found that "bell" after using my Lee Collets but I saw the advantage if they did. For what it's worth, here's what I did to grind a bit of mouth flare into my collet dies.

I found a cheap cone-shaped grinding burr on a 1/4" shaft and chucked in my drill. Simply pushed it straight in with light pressure to grind a small/short bevel into the top of the collets. It should be understood that short cases will flared less, long ones more - uniformly trimmed cases will be flared quite consistantly. The grinding isn't critical but don't over do it for obvious reasons.

I found that a visibly ground surface of about 1/32" at about 45 degrees left me a slight but VERY useful flare on the sized case mouths. If the flare was too small, I just repeated the grinding until I got it right. Completed, even with the squarest bases, bullet entry is now quite smooth.

 

[308sako]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

I'll suggest two things:

One, get a VLD chamfering tool and put a long taper in the case mouth.

Two, get a competition style seating die that has an alignment sleeve. Redding's has a micrometer. Either of the Forster dies is so equipped. RCBS has two of them; they're expensive, and the cheaper one has an abbreviated sleeve, something like the Hornady seater. The windows for the bullet in the RCBS dies is convenient for smaller projectiles.

You might compare the diameter of the bullet to that of your sizer's expander button to determine how much interference you're actually getting; figure about a 0.001" springback in the brass. If your brass needs annealing, you could get more springback.

 

[Jumper]

Re: I know there is an easy answer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I found I had that problem too with flat base bullets until I started using a lee collet neck sizing die. It seems to leave a bit of flare at the mouth that makes getting the bullet started in the neck waaaay easier, unless that's just a fluke with my die."

I never found that "bell" after using my Lee Collets but I saw the advantage if they did. For what it's worth, here's what I did to grind a bit of mouth flare into my collet dies.

I found a cheap cone-shaped grinding burr on a 1/4" shaft and chucked in my drill. Simply pushed it straight in with light pressure to grind
a small/short bevel into the top of the collets. It should be understood that short cases will flared less, long ones more - uniformly trimmed cases will be flared quite consistantly. The grinding isn't critical but don't over do it for obvious reasons.

I found that a visibly ground surface of about 1/32" at about 45 degrees left me a slight but VERY useful flare on the sized case mouths. If the flare was too small, I just repeated the grinding until I got it right. Completed, even with the squarest bases, bullet entry is now quite smooth. </div></div>

Good Tip, I might try it.