Night Vision I need a laser

[Phylodog]

We picked up three PVS-22's & three PVS-14's from TNVC last year. The 22's are working out very well and the 14's have functioned well for observation to this point. I spent a couple of hours attempting to use the 14 on a helmet mount to do some shooting the other night and only succeeded in getting frustrated. After doing some reading it appears that introducing an IR laser is the way to go.

I'm hoping the experienced folks can make a recommendation as I'm new to the night vision world. I have a Surefire 620V (not pictured) so I don't need an IR illuminator. The rest of the team is outfitted with Surefire X400's to be used in full SCBA so a dual visibile/IR unit would be perfect.

Here is a pic of my rifle configuration. I've got rail space available on the receiver and can move the T-1 back if needed. I'm pretty fond of the setup I have and dumping the MOE hand guards for a rail system is not an attractive option.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. The OTAL seems like it may work but without a visible laser. I'd run without a visible laser before adding a rail system.


TIA

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: I need a laser

I've been running pvs 14s under all sorts of conditions and have had great results in many different ways. For my helmet set up I am using an A Alpha helmet and run a Mars IR lasered reflex sight. This set up is tittys for out to around 200yds or so. Hits are relatively easy.

I have used peq 2's and a few other IR sources lasers and have had good luck too. I find you don't need near the power that many believe for target aquisition with good gen 3 stuff. I am really digging the mars setup as it kills two birds with one stone being an integrated unit and keeping the weight down.

If funding is not an issue I would look into a dbal. They are nice units and one of the dealers will come along and school you up on them.

For the distances you can reliably engage with a helmet mounted rig there is really no need for a full power target painter. My .02 worth.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: I need a laser

I'll be paying for this out of pocket so unfortunately budget limitations are involved. I don't mind paying for quality gear but I may not be able to afford the best out there. I'm pretty well stuck with the helmet I've got, a replacement will have to be a ballistic variety and would likely cost more than a laser.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: I need a laser

First, thank you for the purchase, glad the gear it still treating you well!

Your on the right track to look at the Class 1 systems from LDI. most economical is the OTAL or ITAL single IR laser.

I would also look at the CQBL we offer from LDI that has both vis. and IR slaved. We have special Hide pricing for the FDE model that is not near the price of the DBAL-I2's. http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

Hope this helps and feel free to PM me with the CQBL pricing as well. Thanks again for your business.

Vic

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: I need a laser

You have a very nice set up right now.

I would go with the CQBL-1, has both a visible laser and an IR laser and is fairly small.

I have had great customer service and prices from modarmory.

You will like the laser a lot.

 

[hdfireman]

Re: I need a laser

I also say the CQBL-1 and MOD armory or I^2 Technologies.

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: I need a laser

If your making a purchase as LE if you get an order on dept letterhead you will have access to the full power units and LE pricing from the manufacturers. You could check out what Insight can do for you an a peq 15

 

[DocBach]

Re: I need a laser

Whats the size difference between the ITAL/OTAL and CQBL?

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocBach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats the <span style="font-weight: bold">size </span>difference between the ITAL/OTAL and CQBL? </div></div>

ITAL/OTAL the same, but here is the links to the specs.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">CQBL</span>
http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

<span style="text-decoration: underline">ITAL</span>
http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-ital-class-1-ir-laser/

 

[hdfireman]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocBach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats the size difference between the ITAL/OTAL and CQBL?</div></div>

The ITAL and OTAL are IR aimers while the CQBL1 is both IR and visable

 

[DocBach]

Re: I need a laser

Looks like the stats say that the OTAL/ITALs are shorter than the CQBLs, but looks like they aren't taking in account of the mount as the CQBL looks like it has a much lower profile. Any idea if a TA33 ACOG in a LaRue mount will see over a CQBL mounted on the 12 o'clock rail of an AR?

 

[Phylodog]

Re: I need a laser

From what I can find on the net it appears that the DBAL-I2 would project around either side of the FSB. The only question I have at this point is whether I can fit a Troy BUIS, Aimpoint T1 in Larue mount and the DBAL-I2 all on the receiver. Is anyone running a similar setup who would be willing to check for me?

 

[IR-V]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I can find on the net it appears that the DBAL-I2 would project around either side of the FSB. The only question I have at this point is whether I can fit a Troy BUIS, Aimpoint T1 in Larue mount and the DBAL-I2 all on the receiver. Is anyone running a similar setup who would be willing to check for me? </div></div>

I will say this: I'm not a big fan of mounting the ATPIAL/PEQ-15 or DBAL/PEQ-15A at the 12 o'clock rail position. Maybe I'm just "old school," but I am adamant about keeping my iron sights free of clutter, and the 12 o'clock mounting of the PEQ-15/15As on M-16 rifles, even though it doesn't obscure the front sight post, comes right up to the base of it, and blocks out a huge amount of the bottom half of one's field of view.

If your handguards and side rail mounts are properly designed, mounting a PEQ-15/15A sighted in at the 12 o'clock position should still maintain the same bore alignment at any of the side rail positions.

IR-V

 

[Phylodog]

Re: I need a laser

I can appreciate that but I don't have a rail system on the rifle and I really don't want one. I have the Magpul MOE handguards and they aren't stable enough for an aiming device.

 

[DocBach]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I can find on the net it appears that the DBAL-I2 would project around either side of the FSB. The only question I have at this point is whether I can fit a Troy BUIS, Aimpoint T1 in Larue mount and the DBAL-I2 all on the receiver. Is anyone running a similar setup who would be willing to check for me? </div></div>

I will say this: I'm not a big fan of mounting the ATPIAL/PEQ-15 or DBAL/PEQ-15A at the 12 o'clock rail position. Maybe I'm just "old school," but I am adamant about keeping my iron sights free of clutter, and the 12 o'clock mounting of the PEQ-15/15As on M-16 rifles, even though it doesn't obscure the front sight post, comes right up to the base of it, and blocks out a huge amount of the bottom half of one's field of view.

If your handguards and side rail mounts are properly designed, mounting a PEQ-15/15A sighted in at the 12 o'clock position should still maintain the same bore alignment at any of the side rail positions.

IR-V </div></div>

Want to put it on the front o the 12 o clock on this rifle, no BUIS.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocBach</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I can find on the net it appears that the DBAL-I2 would project around either side of the FSB. The only question I have at this point is whether I can fit a Troy BUIS, Aimpoint T1 in Larue mount and the DBAL-I2 all on the receiver. Is anyone running a similar setup who would be willing to check for me? </div></div>

I will say this: I'm not a big fan of mounting the ATPIAL/PEQ-15 or DBAL/PEQ-15A at the 12 o'clock rail position. Maybe I'm just "old school," but I am adamant about keeping my iron sights free of clutter, and the 12 o'clock mounting of the PEQ-15/15As on M-16 rifles, even though it doesn't obscure the front sight post, comes right up to the base of it, and blocks out a huge amount of the bottom half of one's field of view.

If your handguards and side rail mounts are properly designed, mounting a PEQ-15/15A sighted in at the 12 o'clock position should still maintain the same bore alignment at any of the side rail positions.

IR-V </div></div>

Want to put it on the front o the 12 o clock on this rifle, no BUIS. </div></div>

DocBach, you will be GTG. Your ACOG's magnification will basically look through the very top portion of the CQBL, if you see it at all.

Vic

 

[DocBach]

Re: I need a laser

I know it does with the 4x, but I'm not sure if the 3x is enough to "see through" it.

 

[IR-V]

Re: I need a laser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocBach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Want to put it on the front o the 12 o clock on this rifle, no BUIS. </div></div>

It's a matter of calculating and comparing offsets. For both the PEQ-15 and PEQ-15A, the height from to top of the M1913 spec rail to the flat on top of the PEQ-15/15A unit is 1-1/16 inch (1.0625"). Operating and adjustment switches add yet more height but are offset to both sides of the units' flat tops.

The DoD issue DBAL-A2 (PEQ-15A) devices that I have for lab dev work have the SWAN mount bases. I do not have the newer LaRue type mounts that LDI has adopted on their newer production and therefore cannot confirm what the heights are with those mounts. Also, I can't speak for dimensional changes that may have occured with the various Class 1 DBALs that LDI produces for civilian use.

The ATPIAL (PEQ-15) uses a mount base that is integrated with (molded into) to chassis of the unit, and I am not aware of any Class 1 variants of it at the current time.

Vic can confirm what the height offsets are for the Class 1 DBALs and related, from top of rail to top-flat of the units. Those are the numbers you need to get positive, empirical confirmation on whether you'll have interference or clearance with the placement of your scope objective lens.

IR-V

 

[DocBach]

Re: I need a laser

CQBL looks like it has a lower profile than the DBAL or PEQ15 - looks like it has an integrated hex wrench mount. Would really like to know if the mini ACOG would look over it before cracking $800 clams on one.

 

[bassani]

Re: I need a laser

tag

 

[Phylodog]

Re: I need a laser

Vic ended up giving me a good price on a DBAL I2 that showed up earlier this week. I reluctantly dumped my MOE setup and went with a Troy Alpha rail to get the DBAL mounted properly. I also switched the scout light out to a 620V to provide IR illumination. The SR-D-IT switch is on order and should be here in the next few days.

I'm pleased with the I2 on initial impression. I wish the IR laser was a bit more focused than it is but I think it's going to work out fine. Hoping to get a chance to get it zeroed next week sometime.