Suppressors I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

[dogmessiah]

I am planning to buy my first NFA item.
I am in graduate school in Arizona right now, and will be graduating in about 6 months give or take (depends on how research and writing goes). I am currently a legal resident of Arizona. When I graduate, I will either be moving back to Missouri, or wherever I get a job west of the Mississippi (excluding California and Minnisota).

I already know I want a silencerco sparrow for my first can, but I am worried about wait time, because I will be moving before or around the time I get approved. I want to buy it through a trust, and include two Missouri residents (family) in the trust.

What are my options for getting the wheels turning, so I don't have to wait until I move to start the form 3 and form 4 waiting periods. Currently what seems to make sense to me is to create a trust in Missouri, and pick out a dealer there to do the transfer. Picking up a new suppressor from a dealer in Missouri is as good of a reason to make it back and visit family as any other. Is there any issue with that despite the fact that I am not a Missouri resident. From reading the ATF handbook, all I saw with regards to suppressors was the it is illegal to obtain a chief law enforcement officer from an area outside of where you reside. With it going through a trust I should not need a CLEO signature. Could I just use a family address for the address of the trust and location of the suppressor on the form 4? I am not trying to avoid the legalities of either state, just the wait time. I don't want to have to make the trip from Missouri to Arizona just to pick up a suppressor.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am planning to buy my first NFA item.
I am in graduate school in Arizona right now, and will be graduating in about 6 months give or take (depends on how research and writing goes). I am currently a legal resident of Arizona. When I graduate, I will either be moving back to Missouri, or wherever I get a job west of the Mississippi (excluding California and Minnisota).

I already know I want a silencerco sparrow for my first can, but I am worried about wait time, because I will be moving before or around the time I get approved. I want to buy it through a trust, and include two Missouri residents (family) in the trust.

What are my options for getting the wheels turning, so I don't have to wait until I move to start the form 3 and form 4 waiting periods. Currently what seems to make sense to me is to create a trust in Missouri, and pick out a dealer there to do the transfer. Picking up a new suppressor from a dealer in Missouri is as good of a reason to make it back and visit family as any other. Is there any issue with that despite the fact that I am not a Missouri resident. From reading the ATF handbook, all I saw with regards to suppressors was the it is illegal to obtain a chief law enforcement officer from an area outside of where you reside. With it going through a trust I should not need a CLEO signature. Could I just use a family address for the address of the trust and location of the suppressor on the form 4? I am not trying to avoid the legalities of either state, just the wait time. I don't want to have to make the trip from Missouri to Arizona just to pick up a suppressor. </div></div>

I would personally form the Trust in Missouri and acquire it from an SOT there.

That would get the process rolling, you don't even have to be present to get the papers going either.

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

I appreciate the feedback. That is exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. The only thing I was worried about was the transfer to me on account of me not being a Missouri resident.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appreciate the feedback. That is exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. The only thing I was worried about was the transfer to me on account of me not being a Missouri resident. </div></div>

YOU are not acquiring it, the TRUST is acquiring it. YOU don't have to be the one that signs for it, any of the responsible parties int eh trust can sign for it.....ie family in Missouri.

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
YOU are not acquiring it, the TRUST is acquiring it. YOU don't have to be the one that signs for it, any of the responsible parties int eh trust can sign for it.....ie family in Missouri. </div></div>
This is what I was thinking, but it is nice to hear from someone else that I am not off of my rocker. Anytime government redtape gets involved I feel the need to double check myself.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
YOU are not acquiring it, the TRUST is acquiring it. YOU don't have to be the one that signs for it, any of the responsible parties int eh trust can sign for it.....ie family in Missouri. </div></div>
This is what I was thinking, but it is nice to hear from someone else that I am not off of my rocker. Anytime government redtape gets involved I feel the need to double check myself. </div></div>

I would clear that up with the dealer you are planning to use in MO before going ahead. He may require you to be a state resident before you can pick it up, and you may need to show proof of it. Also, only you can be the "grantor" for your trust, as I understand it (don't take this as legal advice--I'm not a lawyer). As such, I believe only the grantor can pick it up from the trust. Other officers of the trust can be in possession of it though. Someone with more experience and knowledge will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it.

 

[Havoc]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

Another option is to set up the trust in Arizona and then when you move amend the trust for Missouri. When you amend the trust you restate the trust is in another state. You send in the trust certified mail to the ATF. They do not have a place or department just for notifying of amendments and (according to my lawyer) will just shit can it. But, you have documented proof with the certified mail that you did your part. If you are still in Arizona when the can is approved and in your trust, you will just need to fill out a form giving 30 days notice of permanent address change and be able transport suppressor to Missouri after that.

Its a tough situation (due to wait times) no matter what you decide to do, but there are several options and not every lawyer agrees on which way to do it. Luckily both states are suppressor friendly, unluckily you are dealing with the federal part of the government.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

The ATF doesn't "shit can" amendments, would love to know the basis of your lawyers comment.

A certified mail receipt proves only that something was sent to that address.

It could have been the deed to your house, an old lottery ticket or dirty underwear.

Since you know you are landing in MO, I would talk to your local MO SOT and see what he suggest, he is afterall the one that would be in hot water for doing something wrong.

 

[Havoc]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ATF doesn't "shit can" amendments, would love to know the basis of your lawyers comment.

A certified mail receipt proves only that something was sent to that address.

It could have been the deed to your house, an old lottery ticket or dirty underwear.

Since you know you are landing in MO, I would talk to your local MO SOT and see what he suggest, he is afterall the one that would be in hot water for doing something wrong. </div></div>

I am not going to disagree with you. I am only trying to help and give options. And unless you are a lawyer who deals specifically with NFA trusts, I would not speak in absolutes. I understand you, with your business, deal heavily with suppressors, but NFA laws can be very confusing at times even for those regulating them. Especially in a situation as unclear as this one. I had talked to several lawyers before making my decision as to who to use. And they all had varying opinons on differing NFA topics. I had moved from Kansas to Missouri and had to amend my trust in this way. My lawyer is Doug Fredrick out of Springfield, MO and he is with the Gun Trust Lawyer network. If you want to know the basis or reasoning for what he told me I suggest you give him a call. (417) 882-3600. He is very good at answering a lot of NFA questions.

As far as certified/signature mail I am not sure what else you would use. When people send their manuscripts for books, movies, or even when I get mailed precious metals in the mail it is certified with signature required to prove you recieved it. What would you use to prove you mailed an item?

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterFistHer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ATF doesn't "shit can" amendments, would love to know the basis of your lawyers comment.

A certified mail receipt proves only that something was sent to that address.

It could have been the deed to your house, an old lottery ticket or dirty underwear.

Since you know you are landing in MO, I would talk to your local MO SOT and see what he suggest, he is afterall the one that would be in hot water for doing something wrong. </div></div>

I am not going to disagree with you. I am only trying to help and give options. And unless you are a lawyer who deals specifically with NFA trusts, I would not speak in absolutes. I understand you, with your business, deal heavily with suppressors, but NFA laws can be very confusing at times even for those regulating them. Especially in a situation as unclear as this one. I had talked to several lawyers before making my decision as to who to use. And they all had varying opinons on differing NFA topics. I had moved from Kansas to Missouri and had to amend my trust in this way. My lawyer is Doug Fredrick out of Springfield, MO and he is with the Gun Trust Lawyer network. If you want to know the basis or reasoning for what he told me I suggest you give him a call. (417) 882-3600. He is very good at answering a lot of NFA questions.

As far as certified/signature mail I am not sure what else you would use. When people send their manuscripts for books, movies, or even when I get mailed precious metals in the mail it is certified with signature required to prove you recieved it. What would you use to prove you mailed an item? </div></div>

I would fax it in. Then you can have the print out showing a copy of the fax sent, where the fax was sent from, the phone number it went to, when it was sent and verification that it was received and printed. That is undeniable proof.

 

[Havoc]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

Valid point. I guess I didnt even think about it. Mostly because my gun trust is 36 pages long. Not sure how happy they would be about that. Always assumed if I had to go to court the certified mail would be proof enough. Always good to have back ups to the back ups though.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterFistHer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valid point. I guess I didnt even think about it. Mostly because my gun trust is 36 pages long. Not sure how happy they would be about that. Always assumed if I had to go to court the certified mail would be proof enough. Always good to have back ups to the back ups though. </div></div>

The amendment isnt going to be 36 pages, nor will the 5320.20 that accompanies it.

 

[Havoc]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

You are right. It is a good point. But not for my situation. When I had the lawyer do it, they re-did the whole thing because it was not a "gun trust" but a property trust holding NFA weapons. So I sent the whole thing in amended with only the same name of the trust left intact. Not every situation can be covered under a blanket clause.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterFistHer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are right. It is a good point. But not for my situation. When I had the lawyer do it, they re-did the whole thing because it was not a "gun trust" but a property trust holding NFA weapons. So I sent the whole thing in amended with only the same name of the trust left intact. Not every situation can be covered under a blanket clause. </div></div>

Agreed.

For a situation like that I would send it to the ATF and in the letter request a letter to verify that they have received it.

I have never had a letter request be denied.

 

[Havoc]

Re: I want a suppressor but will be moving in 6 months

Thats an even better idea!