I want to setup my last reloading bench

[captnmo]

Ok, so I made the difficult decision to sell my motorcycle and fund my greater obsession of shooting. I'm new to reloading and started with a Lee starter kit. I may be upgrading that to a Forrester Co-Ax or something along those lines of quality for precision shooting. I've been reading a lot about case prep equipment and my head is spinning.

So there's the Giraud case trimmer. Seems to be the best. Will trim my cases, chamfur and debur....Am I missing anything else? Will it do the dishes as well for $425 <jk>.

I've seen those "case prep centers" from Hornady and RCBS, but the Hornady has received mixed reviews at best. What are your thoughts? I want to be able to do all those other things like clean the primer pockets, clean the inside of the neck, etc. Are they worth the money or should I just attach those tools onto my cordless drill?

What are your suggestions on progessive reloaders? I like what I see with the Dillon, but there's Redding, RCBS, etc? Is the Dillon worth the money? I understand they have a great warranty and CS.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

Forster, Giraud good

Hornady Prep center is a waste IMHO, my 14.4 Dewalt does just fine, you already have a cordless drill.

Hornady LNL AP is cheaper and has the same warrenty as a Dillon, but I want a 650xl, it's a proven design that has stood the test of time, I don't even consider a 550 because it's not a true progressive.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I made the difficult decision to sell my motorcycle and fund my greater obsession of shooting. I'm new to reloading and started with a Lee starter kit. I may be upgrading that to a Forrester Co-Ax or something along those lines of quality for precision shooting. I've been reading a lot about case prep equipment and my head is spinning.

So there's the Giraud case trimmer. Seems to be the best. Will trim my cases, chamfur and debur....Am I missing anything else? Will it do the dishes as well for $425 <jk>.

I've seen those "case prep centers" from Hornady and RCBS, but the Hornady has received mixed reviews at best. What are your thoughts? I want to be able to do all those other things like clean the primer pockets, clean the inside of the neck, etc. Are they worth the money or should I just attach those tools onto my cordless drill?

What are your suggestions on progessive reloaders? I like what I see with the Dillon, but there's Redding, RCBS, etc? Is the Dillon worth the money? I understand they have a great warranty and CS. </div></div>

I don't know how much you have to spend, but you can get by with trimmers less spendy than the Giraud, although it's not chopped liver, by any means.

I started 16+ years ago with no internet, a Dillon 550b, a Speer and a Nosler manual, along with a few magazines. Progressives for beginners are easy enough if you're not a dolt.

I've had the RCBS TrimMate for a few years and it helps out a lot with the tedious grunt work.

I would think that the vertical sockets of the RCBS unit would be easier on the wrists than the horizontal sockets on the Hornady, which does trim, but not that well. If you're bent on getting the Giraud, then you really don't need to spend the extra cash on the Hornady unit.

There are a bunch of tools that you'll probably want to get, so figure these into your equation as well.

Chris

 

[jagged77]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

You know you've got it bad when you've got to sell a bike to fund your shooting habits! Ask me how I know... LOL

From someone who has built up his collection and reloading technique for some time these are my indispensable pieces of reloading kit:

Forster CoAx
RCBS Chargemaster
Stainless Steel Media and Thumbler Tumbler

The SSM cleans primer pockets so no messing around there. For trimming I just use an RCBS trim pro then chamfer by hand. The Giraud if I had one would probably be in the above list... Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

I like my Dillon RL550B. My first press, and my only one since the early-mid 1990's.

While I admire your intention to settle on a single solution and maintain it, I also think that change is good when warranted, and that outlawing it from my own approach can have negative repercussions.

I like to think of it in terms of Gibbs' Rule #51...; "Sometimes we get it wrong anyway...",

Greg

 

[CardiacKid]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

Like others mentioned, The RCBS power case prep center is great when you're upgrading from going by hand. However, if you're already planning on getting a Giraud, the only thing you'd use the case prep center for is primer pocket uniforming (don't even bother with the little wire brush pocket cleaners - they don't work as well as the uniformer). If you're getting the giraud I'd just chuck a uniformer on your drill and use that - you now have just about every case prep task powered and as quick as can be.

Also: If you have anyone around you that reloads and could help you with the setup, I'd go full-in with the Dillon (or other progressive). I'm not saying don't buy it if you're off on your own in the woods somewhere, but it's much, much easier to set up and troubleshoot if you understand what's going on with the press and each station already. If your interest is that great and you shoot anything other than a handful of precision rifle rounds a month, you'll quickly want to upgrade. Took me about a year of loading around two thousand .223 on a single stage before I gave in and bought the Dillon 550. Several guys on the site here have set their 550s up to load precision rounds in addition to bulk plinking rounds and found that the manual index is actually easier for these since it allows you to move back in forth if required during the cycle (slightly adjust seating depth, etc.) The 650 is a great unit, but the added cost of the case feeder and bullet feeder, etc. doesn't sell itself for me at this point. I'll manually seat a case, bullet and turn the wheel myself for now (in the extra 2-3 seconds that takes). The 550 is still light years faster than a single stage.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

I bought an RCBS Trim Pro Power last year. The Giraud is on my next purchase list. Yes, I can trim three calibers with 3 way trimmer for less than the cost of the Giraud. No, I cannot trim more than 3 or 4 cases a minute. If I were to do it over I'd have a Giraud now.

 

[turbo54]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

I have a Dillon 550 and a Dillon 650...

I bought my 550 first, under the rationale that without auto-index, it would be simpler and easier. I also liked the fact that it is more "versatile". I read on the Brian Enos forum the 550 is really better for 99% of the people interested in a progressive.

Honestly, after running the 650, I disagree. The auto-index makes it MUCH more difficult to double-charge a cartridge, and it really is convenient, not having to index it yourself.

Another thing is the casefeeder - they rock! There is just no question about it. Both of my Dillon units have them. However, the 550 casefeeder is for pistol only. It is a HASSLE to install/remove the casefeeder system on a 550. Takes at least 45 minutes if you know what you're doing.

To give you an idea: I clean spent brass before doing anything else - I want to run clean brass in my dies and machines. When loading rifle, I clean first, then deprime, then clean again before loading, to get the primer pocket cleaned out. With my 650 with casefeeder, I can dump in 250 308 cases, and have them all deprimed/necksized in less than 10 minutes, while consuming a beer with my left hand. Its just that easy.

My point: Don't buy a progressive that doesn't auto-index.

All that said, my buddy just got into reloading, and after doing a lot of research and asking me a lot of questions, he chose the Hornady AP progressive. I helped him get it set up and tuned up, and I have to say: that machine is every bit as good as a Dillon, in some cases better. The primer feed is more elegant. The whole unit is heavier duty, and made of cast iron instead of aluminum. The ram is about twice as big, the case retention in the shellplate is easier to deal with, making the task of taking cases in/out of the shellplate a snap. The way the dies lock into the (non-removable) toolhead is better (You set the die into a $5 bushing, that has a quick-lock engagement into the toolhead). The powder measure is of the "ball-valve" type, instead of the dillon "sliding-bar" type. Plus, the Hornady powder measure comes off easier... You don't have to undo a wingnut and the two socket head cap screws like you do with the Dillon. It just pops off with no tools. If I load 1000 cartridges with the 550, I'll have 50 spent primers on the floor. My 650 seems to catch every single one. The Hornady AP has a dump tube that can be routed into a trash can, and it WILL catch every one. The AP has grease zerks, the Dillon doesn't.

Bottom line is you can buy the AP for the price of a 550. The AP is the equivalent of a 650. While I own Dillon, and have had good luck with them and like them just fine, I honestly think the Hornady is a much better value. It is just as good a machine, yet costs less.

 

[captnmo]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

Great input! Hornady Case Prep center is off the list and I'm putting a Thumler Tumbler on. Probably right next to a Giraud.

Turbo, thanks for the input on the Hornady AP. So the only real difference between that and the 650 is the case feeder and about 100 bucks?

 

[Rookie]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

I have both the 550 and the Hornady. the Hornady is more comparable to the 650 in terms of higher volume, auto index... Get the casefeeder if you get either the 650 or the Hornady, you'll be glad you did. Not so much so on the 550. The ease of changing calibers on that machine outweighs the speed advantage of the case feeder. On the 550 you can literally change calibers in a couple of minutes.

I will just make one correction to what Turbo said, and that is that the Hornady is aluminum not cast iron.

 

[captnmo]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

What are you all using for powder measures/throwers? I hear good things about the Chargmaster but how is it for getting precise loads? Do you recommend getting a good beam scale for that as well or is that just to anal?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you all using for powder measures/throwers? I hear good things about the Chargmaster but how is it for getting precise loads? Do you recommend getting a good beam scale for that as well or is that just to anal? </div></div>

When I'm doing bulk rifle for plinking, or pistol ammo, I use my Dillon measure and it's been fine. Even bought a second one to set up with the smaller powder bar, but haven't used it once for the four years I've had it.

Changing things is pretty easy on the 550b.

When I got my RCBS TrimMate, I bought the ChargeMaster 1500. I use this for my target grade rifle rounds and love it.

I can get charge weights to drift between tenths, so it as precise as most commercial scales out there.

I'm not a kernel counter, so I don't need to take the next step in scales.

Chris

 

[rrflyer]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

I load on my 650, drop powder with a chargemaster, and trim with a giraud.


I dont think it can get much easier than that when it comes to rifle reloading. For the utmost performance in rifle reloading the 650 the whidden toolhead.

I have an idea for a 650 toolhead that would be even better then the Whidden but dont know any machinests to get one made!

 

[captnmo]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

One down. I just scored a NIB Hornady AP loader for $405 shipped with extra brass and the free 500 bullets from Hornady.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

For match ammo, I hand weigh each charge. I set the Dillon measure up to consistantly drop at or slightly over the desired weight, then dump the charge into the scale pan.

If it's right on, it gets dumped back into the case using a drop tube.

If it's over, I pinch some out and slowly trickle it back until the charge weight is exact. The excess get dropped back into the measure's hopper and the corrected charge goes back into the case as above. Slower than progressive, but not too bad once you get the hang. I don't make huge runs of ammo and my usual batch of 50 gets done without becoming a massive chore.

Hunting ammo or zombie fodder simply gets the charge dropped on the fly a part of the 550's progssive mode. My Garand doesn't seem to recognize any difference, and the critters haven't complained yet.

Greg

 

[captnmo]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

Greg, what are you using for you Garand M2 ball loads? I have one and want to reload for it but understand you can't just put commercial 30-06 ammo in it.

 

[AnthonyL]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

RCBS Trim Pro w/ Dewalt power drill and RCBS 3-way cutter head. Trims, deburs, and chamfurs in one shot. Combined with the Dewalt you are talking 5 seconds per brass. Multiple caliber capable and a fraction the cost of the Giraud. For all out speed, the Giraud wins hands down.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: I want to setup my last reloading bench

Rem brass, Win WLR primers, a 150-155gr bullet, 50.0gr of IMR-4064. Straight out of the NRA <span style="font-style: italic">Garand</span> Reprint (which is <span style="font-style: italic">well</span> worth tracking down and acquiring...).

Greg