Night Vision ID'ing with a thermal monocular
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ID how, and at what distance? Overall, thermal excels at detection, is very good at recognition, fair at identification and aiming. I2 devices are fair at detection, good at recognition and very good at identification and aiming. Facial ID for example, depends on the display and range, how many pixels are required to make an image you can recognize. The specs for this are setup for a 50% probability of success, so when you look at a mfgs spec sheet giving ranges take that into account. For example, the excellent Trijicon IR Patrol M300 is rated at detection of a human for 3166 meters. A person is about 2 of the 300,000 or so pixels in the display (640x480). Identification (soldier or civilian) is spec’d at 395 meters. Thats at a 50% probability, 95% is really closer to 200 meters, and that is not a positive Face ID.
Thanks Cory for the reply.....my SHTF weapon of choice is a suppressed 300 blackout pistol, so distance would be dictated somewhat by that.....let's say 75yds on in......debating thermal vs NV and I've watched enough YT to give me a headache.
Wish I had 50K to spend and I wouldn't stress over it
Wish I had 50K to spend and I wouldn't stress over it
Just to confirm, when you say “identify someone” do you mean identify that it is a person or ability to identify a specific person?
You won’t have a problem identifying a person at hundreds of yards. Identifying a specific person is not thermal’s strong suit.
You won’t have a problem identifying a person at hundreds of yards. Identifying a specific person is not thermal’s strong suit.
You won’t be able to positive identify a specific person at that distance unless they have some VERY distinguishing features.
General characteristics such as basic size, body shape, length of hair, yes thermal will display this. It really isn't a resolution thing although you can see smaller details with higher resolution. It is because a thermal is designed to see infrared energy/heat. As already said, if you want to identify the person, traditional night vision (Image Intensification) is a better option.
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Thanks Rerun7! Before investing in PVS-14 or something like that to PID a specific person, I was just wondering if going all in on an iRay RH25 or something like that would work. Seems like something doing double-duty as a handheld and weapon scope would cause issues with zero, taking it off/on the weapon all the time.....
Thanks kirsch
Thanks kirsch
Over the years, I finally decided my definition of PID is "is the critter a target under current ROE" (thanks to The German for the inspiration for this idea!).
So under normal conditions, a coon or opossum or skunk near the chicken coop is a target, so a 4 legged mammal of that general size and shape is a target. I don't need to know for sure whether its a coon or opossum or skunk and sometimes I can tell which it is and sometimes (due to angle or high grass etc) I can't. But I know its a target under my normal ROE.
So as far as primates, they are normally NOT targets in my ROE, but if they were, and if Johnny and Jimmy were identical twins and Jimmy would be a target but Johnny would not be a target, then I would need to ID whether it was Jimmy or Johnny and that would be tough !!! NV might be able to do a better job in that case. I say for example, with thermal I can tell my cows from my calves, but with NV I can tell which cow is which (mostly) because I can see the coloration - somewhat.
So if I need to be able to tell which coon it is or which opossum it is (if I've been giving them names) then might need NV for that. But I normally do NOT need to be able to tell which coon it is, to decide its a target under my ROE, so this isn't a problem for me !
So under normal conditions, a coon or opossum or skunk near the chicken coop is a target, so a 4 legged mammal of that general size and shape is a target. I don't need to know for sure whether its a coon or opossum or skunk and sometimes I can tell which it is and sometimes (due to angle or high grass etc) I can't. But I know its a target under my normal ROE.
So as far as primates, they are normally NOT targets in my ROE, but if they were, and if Johnny and Jimmy were identical twins and Jimmy would be a target but Johnny would not be a target, then I would need to ID whether it was Jimmy or Johnny and that would be tough !!! NV might be able to do a better job in that case. I say for example, with thermal I can tell my cows from my calves, but with NV I can tell which cow is which (mostly) because I can see the coloration - somewhat.
So if I need to be able to tell which coon it is or which opossum it is (if I've been giving them names) then might need NV for that. But I normally do NOT need to be able to tell which coon it is, to decide its a target under my ROE, so this isn't a problem for me !
- Nov 3, 2010
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- Nov 3, 2010
- 10,275
- 22,258
So unless I’m semi retarded, which might actually be true. I seem to remember the pvs14 being able to correct your eyesight to 20/20 if it isn’t already. That alone would make a quality NV better at detection.
Comparing my gen3 GP tubes against my 640 core C35, I’d agree with all statements above. Thermal will allow you to “ID” better and at longer distances if not hindered by weather or something else(like glass), NV will allow you to focus and see better details sans color.
Comparing my gen3 GP tubes against my 640 core C35, I’d agree with all statements above. Thermal will allow you to “ID” better and at longer distances if not hindered by weather or something else(like glass), NV will allow you to focus and see better details sans color.
Yep, that's why I stick with the Flir Thermosights.
Rainbow is where its at. Non raycist and you think your on an Acid Trip or are a 60's Flower Child.
But I will tell you something special about the Rainbow Palette. So I was looking at 2 guys working on the side of a levee a couple of years ago. They were about 175 yards from me. Out in the open and clear of any vegetation other than short mowed grass. Well buy me for for a song and dance, they were at an almost exact temperature as the background slope on that levee. Black hot, White Hot, Sepia, Iron Bow, Outdoor Alert and all of the rest were completely unable to "see" those two men. Low and behold the Rainbow Palette was the only palette that was able to distinguish them from the background they were against. Apparently, the algorithm for Rainbow is written to identify very discreet differences in temperature.
So, for all of the "shit" people talk about Rainbow not being a usable palette, in certain situations, it will pull you through when the others will not.
So, for all of the "shit" people talk about Rainbow not being a usable palette, in certain situations, it will pull you through when the others will not.
- Nov 3, 2010
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They probably shot 6.5 creedmoor iffin they showed up under rainbow
Yep, real men with hair on their chest suck up the recoil of the old 270 Win instead of that fancy pantsy 6.5 Creedmoor.
The OP needs the newest facial recognition AI goggles.
Everything's a target when the SHTF, so if someone doesn't want to die, don't go outside at night unless your sentries have these goggles.
Everything's a target when the SHTF, so if someone doesn't want to die, don't go outside at night unless your sentries have these goggles.
Thermal for Detection
NV for Navigation + ID
The more you spend, the better clarity, resolution and performance you'll get.
Read the hundreds of posts in this section and then contact a reputable vendor to help you empty your wallet.
NV for Navigation + ID
The more you spend, the better clarity, resolution and performance you'll get.
Read the hundreds of posts in this section and then contact a reputable vendor to help you empty your wallet.
Everyone looks like a threat through thermal. They're goddamn creepy lookin'!
And Bears can look like hogs through thermal. So in hog country that has black bears you gotta be very careful about what you are actually shooting. You get put under the jail if you accidentally shoot a bear in my state and a lot of them have tracking collars on them so it can be fairly easy for the Game Wardens to figure out what happened.
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