? if AMP annealing problems

[Robo]

I recently sold my good 'ol Benchsource annealing machine to "upgrade" to the latest induction technology and bought an AMP after reading numerous positive reviews on it. I love the concept and the simplicity and consistency that this is supposed to bring to this process but my experience so far is less than great.

The first machine I received was clearly defective since the LED read-out kept distorting every 10-15 seconds. Brownell's was great and quickly replaced it. The second one seems to be functioning as intended, I guess. I figured I would start out practicing on some of my piles of once-fired Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass before giving it a go with the much more expensive Lapua stuff I mainly shoot now.

The first challenge I encountered was the varied settings on their website that are lot specific. Of course, none of my lots were listed. I realize that the company offers free analysis of your brass but the catch is fairly pricey shipping to New Zealand for every lot that's not already there, and I have many. This is not a knock on the company or their customer service which I believe are rock solid.

To be safe, I used the lowest setting found for the majority of the Hornady lots listed. The problem as you see below is that at least 10% of the brass I annealed crushed like grapes upon resizing. I even slightly backed off the bump on my Forster Micrometer resizing die since their instructions recommend that due to the fact that annealed brass won't "bounce back" like non-annealed brass will tend to do. I've never had any issues with these dies in the past.

I'm curious if others have run into this kind of problem and/or have any suggestions? If I can't figure it out, I might just return it and go back to my old fashioned torch method where I never crushed a single cartridge.

thx.

 

[6.5texas.shooter]

Curious to know myself. Almost looks like sizing problems. My amp annealer has been wonderful

if its not die related. Curious to see the problem

 

[diverdon]

I recently sold my good 'ol Benchsource annealing machine to "upgrade" to the latest induction technology and bought an AMP after reading numerous positive reviews on it. I love the concept and the simplicity and consistency that this is supposed to bring to this process but my experience so far is less than great.

The first machine I received was clearly defective since the LED read-out kept distorting every 10-15 seconds. Brownell's was great and quickly replaced it. The second one seems to be functioning as intended, I guess. I figured I would start out practicing on some of my piles of once-fired Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass before giving it a go with the much more expensive Lapua stuff I mainly shoot now.

The first challenge I encountered was the varied settings on their website that are lot specific. Of course, none of my lots were listed. I realize that the company offers free analysis of your brass but the catch is fairly pricey shipping to New Zealand for every lot that's not already there, and I have many. This is not a knock on the company or their customer service which I believe are rock solid.

To be safe, I used the lowest setting found for the majority of the Hornady lots listed. The problem as you see below is that at least 10% of the brass I annealed crushed like grapes upon resizing. I even slightly backed off the bump on my Forster Micrometer resizing die since their instructions recommend that due to the fact that annealed brass won't "bounce back" like non-annealed brass will tend to do. I've never had any issues with these dies in the past.

I'm curious if others have run into this kind of problem and/or have any suggestions? If I can't figure it out, I might just return it and go back to my old fashioned torch method where I never crushed a single cartridge.

thx.

Why is the top 3/8" of your neck so shiny? Did you turn these necks? Or did your die make them that shiny?

 

[super_poot]

In my opinion, you are wasting your money on the AMP if you don't send in your brass to have it calibrated. If you are not going to do that you might as well just use your torch method because you are basically "shooting in the dark". The whole point of the AMP is to precisely bring the brass to a specific harness. All brass is slightly different so the setting is going to vary from lot to lot.

What does the brass look like when it comes out? Is it red hot? If so, I would guess that you are over annealing. Either something wrong with the machine or wrong setting.

Try annealing one in a dimly lit room or even dark, as soon as it shuts off pull the brass out, if it's glowing for several seconds I would bet something is wrong.

 

[Robo]

Why is the top 3/8" of your neck so shiny? Did you turn these necks? Or did your die make them that shiny?

I think that's just from the photo enhancement feature I used. No, not neck turned.

 

[super_poot]

Why is the top 3/8" of your neck so shiny? Did you turn these necks? Or did your die make them that shiny?

+1
Could be an issue with the die, looks like its scratching the hell out of the neck.

 

[diverdon]

It does look to me like your die is scraping down the neck--You probably know more about this than I do, but did you use the same amount and type of case lube you always use?

 

[super_poot]

One more thing double check your pilot. Make sure you are using the correct one.

 

[Robo]

It does look to me like your die is scraping down the neck--You probably know more about this than I do, but did you use the same amount and type of case lube you always use?

Yes, same amount of lube as usual but think I'll try another die to rule that out as the source of the problem.

 

[elnizz123]

I have the AMP and annealed both 308 Lapua and 6.5 Peterson brass. No issues whatsoever

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pell1203]

I've had this happen to me before. Probably a bit of over annealing as well.

Solved it by cleaning the die neck area to make sure it was not grabby and making sure the case was centered when resizing. Slowly operating the press to center the case and avoid ramming the top edge of the neck opening during sizing stopped crushing the necks for me.

 

[Jrb572]

It does not cost but a few dollars to ship your brass to them. I the last last time I sent brass it cost me around $8

 

[Clearlight]

The AMP annealer is unlikely to be the issue . You have obviously
galled the shit out of your necks , and the interior neck section of your
sizing die . Is it a bushing bump die ? What size bushing and or how many
thou under loaded round size are you resizing the neck . You die will have
a buildup of brass and scratches internally that can be addressed with some
careful time using wet and dry paper .

I use nothing more complicated than crazy cloth to clean and lube the necks ,
prior to resizing .003 under loaded diameter . I’ve had necks look very similar to
yours when not using lube , and crushed a case or two , as the bush grabs the
neck and won’t slide over it . That was before I started annealing .

Hornady brass has been known to vary in softness quite a bit . This issue in concert
with no lube on your necks is my 2 c . Chamfering the inside and particularly the
outside is not a bad idea , in addition to confirming case max length .

 

[Robo]

It does not cost but a few dollars to ship your brass to them. I the last last time I sent brass it cost me around $8

Guess I'll have to double check that. It looked more in the $35+ range when I checked but depends on how many sent/the weight, I suppose too.

 

[Robo]

The AMP annealer is unlikely to be the issue . You have obviously
galled the shit out of your necks , and the interior neck section of your
sizing die . Is it a bushing bump die ? What size bushing and or how many
thou under loaded round size are you resizing the neck . You die will have
a buildup of brass and scratches internally that can be addressed with some
careful time using wet and dry paper .

I use nothing more complicated than crazy cloth to clean and lube the necks ,
prior to resizing .003 under loaded diameter . I’ve had necks look very similar to
yours when not using lube , and crushed a case or two , as the bush grabs the
neck and won’t slide over it . That was before I started annealing .

Hornady brass has been known to vary in softness quite a bit . This issue in concert
with no lube on your necks is my 2 c . Chamfering the inside and particularly the
outside is not a bad idea , in addition to confirming case max length .

I've been using a standard full length sizing die up til now but am planning to change over to a bushing die approach now. I've always cleaned the internals of the die after each session but appears that I need to look at the sizing process again, especially with the annealed brass. Some good suggestions. thx.

 

[Jrb572]

Guess I'll have to double check that. It looked more in the $35+ range when I checked but depends on how many sent/the weight, I suppose too.

I think I sent 12 pieces. If I remember correctly I think it was in a flat rate box. When they first opened they had a US address and I sent a lot then at one time.

 

[MACHTECH]

The AMP annealer is unlikely to be the issue . You have obviously
galled the shit out of your necks , and the interior neck section of your
sizing die . Is it a bushing bump die ? What size bushing and or how many
thou under loaded round size are you resizing the neck . You die will have
a buildup of brass and scratches internally that can be addressed with some
careful time using wet and dry paper .

I use nothing more complicated than crazy cloth to clean and lube the necks ,
prior to resizing .003 under loaded diameter . I’ve had necks look very similar to
yours when not using lube , and crushed a case or two , as the bush grabs the
neck and won’t slide over it . That was before I started annealing .

Hornady brass has been known to vary in softness quite a bit . This issue in concert
with no lube on your necks is my 2 c . Chamfering the inside and particularly the
outside is not a bad idea , in addition to confirming case max length .

^^^^This^^^^Exactly!

I wish you would rename the title of your post , because I don't believe your problem has anything to do with the AMP annealer. I have been using mine since they first came out on 7 different calibers without any issues. I believe it is the best machine we have available to us for annealing brass.

Best Regards,

Todd

 

[Robo]

^^^^This^^^^Exactly!

I wish you would rename the title of your post , because I don't believe your problem has anything to do with the AMP annealer. I have been using mine since they first came out on 7 different calibers without any issues. I believe it is the best machine we have available to us for annealing brass.

Best Regards,

Todd

Understand your point. Just did that to indicate that it may be due to other factors.

 

[Robo]

I think I sent 12 pieces. If I remember correctly I think it was in a flat rate box. When they first opened they had a US address and I sent a lot then at one time.

I've seen others mention that having a US address again would be great.

 

[918v]

I’ve been using this machine since it was available for sale. I found that many of his settings are excessive because of the brass he used. Brass dimensions change. Just because you bought “Winchester” doesn’t mean it’s dimensionally the same as his Winchester. The same goes for every other brass manufacturer.

The best solution is to get a 650 degree Tempilstik. Test your own brass. Heat it up to 650 and you’re gtg without overdoing it. Don’t get the higher temp crayons as they don’t work very well. If you want more heat just add it. The AMP allows you super precise control.

 

[arm017]

I’ve been using this machine since it was available for sale. I found that many of his settings are excessive because of the brass he used. Brass dimensions change. Just because you bought “Winchester” doesn’t mean it’s dimensionally the same as his Winchester. The same goes for every other brass manufacturer.

The best solution is to get a 650 degree Tempilstik. Test your own brass. Heat it up to 650 and you’re gtg without overdoing it. Don’t get the higher temp crayons as they don’t work very well. If you want more heat just add it. The AMP allows you super precise control.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense; are you able to get precise enough with the tempilaq? or do you end up with a range where it should be?

 

[Sig Marine]

I'm not quite understanding this statement: "I even slightly backed off the bump on my Forster Micrometer resizing die". I was not aware that Forster made a "micrometer" sizing die. Neither a Google search or a visit to Forster's web site shows me exactly what this die is? If you are using a Forster full length sizing die, check the location of your expander ball in relation to the die body vent hole. Not having that adjusted correctly WILL collapse cases.

 

[Robo]

I'm not quite understanding this statement: "I even slightly backed off the bump on my Forster Micrometer resizing die". I was not aware that Forster made a "micrometer" sizing die. Neither a Google search or a visit to Forster's web site shows me exactly what this die is? If you are using a Forster full length sizing die, check the location of your expander ball in relation to the die body vent hole. Not having that adjusted correctly WILL collapse cases.

Yes, misspoke on the type of sizing die. Using the forster FL sizing die and micrometer seater. Am in the process of changing over to Redding type s bushing sizing dies to see if makes a difference.

what is the correct position of the expander ball to the vent hole on the forster Florida die?

 

[918v]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense; are you able to get precise enough with the tempilaq? or do you end up with a range where it should be?

I don’t use tempilaq. I use tempilstik. It is a temperature sensitive crayon you apply to whatever you’re heating. You beat the part then touch it with the crayon which melts if the part is at whatever temperature. It is far more user friendly than tempilaq and easier to remove.

As as far as the range goes, 650 degrees is enough to stop neck splitting. From there it’s about bullet seating pressure at whatever neck tension you’re running. The softer the neck the easier the bullet seats.

 

[Sig Marine]

Yes, misspoke on the type of sizing die. Using the forster FL sizing die and micrometer seater. Am in the process of changing over to Redding type s bushing sizing dies to see if makes a difference.

what is the correct position of the expander ball to the vent hole on the forster Florida die?

The expander ball is adjusted such that the bottom third of the ball is at the vent hole. Link below to the instructions on their web site.

Linky: https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/instructions/full_length_sizing_die_instructions.pdf

 

[Robo]

The expander ball is adjusted such that the bottom third of the ball is at the vent hole. Link below to the instructions on their web site.

Linky: https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/instructions/full_length_sizing_die_instructions.pdf

Thanks. I'm sure I had these instructions at some point but must have filed them somewhere. I'll check my adjustments.

 

[918v]

Expander ball bad. Expander mandrel good.

 

[SmokyJoe]

Guess I'll have to double check that. It looked more in the $35+ range when I checked but depends on how many sent/the weight, I suppose too.

I've seen others mention that having a US address again would be great.

A US based facility or address would be handy. I can confirm that the minimum cost is about $35 to send a small flat rate box from the US to the test facility in New Zealand. Also, they currently limit you to 4 samples for testing/verification of settings.

 

[Robo]

A US based facility or address would be handy. I can confirm that the minimum cost is about $35 to send a small flat rate box from the US to the test facility in New Zealand. Also, they currently limit you to 4 samples for testing/verification of settings.

Sent 12 rounds (2 lots of Lapua 6.5 Creed) out to AMP for analysis today; At only 6 oz., I was able to use First Class international for about $13. Less expensive than I expected. Will see if the testing improves my results.

Also, switched over to the Redding Type S bushing resizing dies. They seem much less stressful on the necks than the standard FL dies I was using before.

 

[NamibHunter]

I realize this is an old thread, but for the benefit of those that come here looking for help:

All annealing methods leave an oxide layer on the inside and outside of the neck, but the severity of it depends on how dull (corroded) or shiny the brass was before annealing. So it will vary. You can usually feel that the oxidized (discolored) section of neck and shoulder has a much higher coefficient of friction, just run your fingers over it, it will feel it is rather sticky.

In my case it caused the necks to get badly scratched in my Wilson bushing neck sizer if i aimed for high (3 thou) neck tension. Experienced folks on this forum provided the answer: Problem is easily solved if you tumble the annealed brass for a few hours until the discoloration on the neck and shoulder is polished off. Effectively, you just remove the oxide layer. Makes sizing the case much smoother and in my testing it gave more consistent seating force, and that should help you make higher quality ammo. It is a good idea to tumble brass after annealing, no matter what method you use. But the AMP machine is very powerful and it raises the surface temperature of the neck very quickly (in 3-4 seconds), much faster than a flame system (7-9 seconds), and it benefits more from the post anneal tumbling step - more so than gas annealing.

Also: If you run lower neck tension (1.5 - 2 thou), and use a good dry lube, you might not need to tumble again before FL sizing, but then at least brush the inside of the necks with a nylon brush (4 times) before seating, that removes enough of the sticky oxide inside inside the neck to make seating force much more consistent. AMP recommends the same brushing step on their web site. [If you really need high neck tension then tumble for 5-6 hours post annealing.]

Hope this helps!

 

[newageroman]

Zombie says thanks. I've been annealing with the ranges AMP and noticed some on the inside of the necks. I don't like SS media, so I will most likely brush out the oxide after annealing.