If you've been scammed by Scott Berish Liberty Optics

[redneckbmxer24]

If you believe Scott has scammed you, you can call Flathead County Sheriffs Office at 406-758-5610 and file a police report. You can do it by phone and it will be assigned to a deputy to investigate.

Here is the the best info available for filing the report which is listed on the business:

Scott Joseph Barish
Liberty Optics LLC
Montana License # C1240018

Premises address:

SCOTT BERISH
74 E NICKLAUS AVE
KALISPELL, MT 59901-5990

Mailing Address:

PO BOX 1713
KALISPELL, MT 59903


The premises address may be incorrect but it's what is listed on the states website from his documentation. That address doesn't come back to him on anything I've been able to pull up but the SO will be able to track him down via the PO Box however since a valid government ID is required for opening one.

You will need a statement as well as proof of payment. If you have communication from Vortex or another manufacturer or distributor confirming that your order was not placed with them you will want to include that as well. This can be done via email or mail. Include as much information as you can. Screen shots from his sale thread around and after the time your order was placed will also be beneficial to include in your report.

I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice, but filing a false police report is a crime and everyone should keep that in mind. You should only file a report if:

A. You have paid Scott, those funds have been debited from your account and you have not received your order and there is no record of your order with the distributor.

B. You have paid Scott, those funds have been debited from your account and you have not received your order and there is an order in with the distributor but they have confirmed it will not be shipped out due to lack of payment from Liberty Optics.

You should also file a charge back with your credit card company even if you believe it's beyond the timeline to do so.

The contact information for the contact at Vortex handling the matter on their end is Shamus Terry [email protected] 608-335-4486. This is where you can find the status of your order or if there's an order.

If Burris, Leupold, Sig or any others are involved in his mess if anyone would like to provide the contact information for them (with their permission) I can add it to this post.



I hope this helps and that everyone can recover their losses but my guess is there's going to be some folks taking hits on this.

 

[diverdon]

What a downer. It sucks to hear this.

 

[Adam B]

Wow, this is really sad to hear.

 

[cypriss32]

Man that sucks to hear, I’ve bought 20 plus scopes from him. What happened?

 

[Kiba]

Man that sucks to hear, I’ve bought 20 plus scopes from him. What happened?

Here's the thread.

Liberty Optics Still Legit?

I've purchased optics from Liberty Optics before. This time around it's been 8 days and no word on shipping. I tried calling but the number provided in my order confirmation has been deactivated. Wondering if Liberty is still G2G or if people have been having issues with them? Thanks

www.snipershide.com

No concrete news other than he went dark in the last couple of days (phone and website down, px thread deleted, and filed for dissolution of the company with the state on 10/16) and left a lot of orders at vortex submitted but unpaid, going all the way back to late May or so.

Lots of people (including myself) with paid for orders that may or may not get a refund from the credit card company.

 

[Shamus Terry]

Good Afternoon Folks,
As of a few mins ago i have emailed or spoken with everyone that has reached out.
If for some reason you emailed or called and i haven't, please re-send as i want to make sure you are looked after.
I appreciate everyone and the support they have shown.
Thanks
Shamus Terry & Vortex Optics
[email protected]

 

[TheHorta]

I’d do everything to find out what the hell happened before damning the torpedoes on this dude. I’ve never talked to him or done a nickel of business with him, but he has been a reliable vendor here for years with hundreds of happy customers and fellow vendors (competitors) speak highly of him.

It could be he had something serious pop up unexpectedly.

If it turns out that he just went completely off the reservation, then so be it, but it feels like the War Cry is a bit premature here.

Just my $0.02 in a world where pennies are worthless.

 

[Kiba]

I’d do everything to find out what the hell happened before damning the torpedoes on this dude. I’ve never talked to him or done a nickel of business with him, but he has been a reliable vendor here for years with hundreds of happy customers and fellow vendors (competitors) speak highly of him.

It could be he had something serious pop up unexpectedly.

If it turns out that he just went completely off the reservation, then so be it, but it feels like the War Cry is a bit premature here.

Just my $0.02 in a world where pennies are worthless.

Having done a lot of business with Scott over about 20 years I really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt; but when the website goes down, the phone is disconnected, you delete your giant thread in the px, and file for dissolution of your LLC with the state, and all this happens within a 24 hour period it looks like something a lot more serious than a unexpected family/medical emergency at a small company which often means that nobody is there to answer the phones or emails.

I could see forgetting to pay your cell phone or web host if life goes sideways unexpectedly and you forget about the bills in the mail on the table, but all those events happening the same day is probably not a coincidence-- especially when deleting the px thread and filing for dissolution of your LLC requires deliberate action and not just forgetting to pay a bill.

I have Scott's personal cell phone number and tried to reach out, and no luck there.

The last several posts in the Liberty optics px thread before it was deleted (and then undeleted but locked by the mods yesterday) were people asking how to get a hold of Scott because he wasn't returning emails, phone calls, or PMs; that started a few days before everything went down yesterday.

The next sign something was wrong was when vortex stepped in to help everyone determine their order status, and you find out that they can't get a hold of Scott either, that orders that customers paid Liberty for (in my case on 7/4) were submitted to vortex but Scott never paid vortex to complete the orders, and other people as far back as late May and early June are in the same boat... Not looking good.

It might be some big personal or family crisis, medical issue, financial insolvency that finally caught up to him, or straight up willful fraud-- but we don't know for sure yet. What we do know is nobody can get a hold of him, his LLC seems to have been cancelled in the middle of all of this, and he hasn't been paying all the bills with vortex.

Regardless, safest option for now to possibly recover your funds is to file a chargeback with your credit card company if you're able to and also submit a report to the Montana consumer protection office and the sheriff's office, because right now it's looking very doubtful that Scott will pay vortex for the outstanding orders in the system. If you wait too long you might go past your maximum time for initiating a chargeback, which has already happened to some people.

What is somewhat odd is some people that ordered from Scott up until mid to late September did receive their items, so it's not like Scott was pocketing the money from every single order from late May until now and just claiming extended backorder times to string people along. Some product was going out the door during this time; perhaps just enough so a few people could post they had received their orders not to arouse suspicion, or maybe he just wasn't paying for the longest lead time items until they were closer to the ship date. Only Scott knows for sure.

Maybe one day we'll know the whole story, but for now it's probably best to assume the worst and protect yourself. Based off 20 years of nothing but great dealings with Scott I'd still like to think this is one giant misunderstanding and Scott didn't take the money and run, but I'm not willing to bet my $3800 based on the current evidence... so I filed for a chargeback.

And once again, huge thanks to Shamus and Scott at Vortex for stepping up and reaching out to everyone to quickly determine their order and payment status. Scott from Vortex was online here at almost midnight last night helping people out, and I'm guessing Shamus was up late too. Shamus responded to my emails yesterday about order and payment status within 3 minutes. Scott from Vortex is also surprised by this and has known and done business with Scott at Liberty for years, and even with the current situation he acknowledged that Scott and Liberty were a big part of Vortex's success in their early years.

Hopefully I get a refund from the credit card company soon so I can send that money right back to Vortex.

 

[Generations]

While I haven't ever met Scott, I've done business with him several times - each time he's held up his end. Last time I ordered was Sept 24th, and guess what, I got the product last week. From what I'm hearing of "planned" theft, I guess he forgot and accidentally shipped my $1700 product. Until I hear what happened, I'll support Scott. He's earned my trust in the past.
Can I guarantee something nefarious didn't happen? No. But, for me personally, I'm comfortable saying innocent until proven guilty.
I think he chose his company name carefully and it stands for his values.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think time will tell and I'd be surprised if he doesn't resolve all this.
What I'm not saying is to sit idly by. Do what you need to try to make yourselves whole, but maybe don't plan to lynch him before you know 100% he's guilty. Past history should count for something.
There, my worthless $0.02 & opinion.

 

[wvfarrier]

Good Afternoon Folks,
As of a few mins ago i have emailed or spoken with everyone that has reached out.
If for some reason you emailed or called and i haven't, please re-send as i want to make sure you are looked after.
I appreciate everyone and the support they have shown.
Thanks
Shamus Terry & Vortex Optics
[email protected]

This right here is why I buy a lot of Vortex optics

 

[Mike Casselton]

While I haven't ever met Scott, I've done business with him several times - each time he's held up his end. Last time I ordered was Sept 24th, and guess what, I got the product last week. From what I'm hearing of "planned" theft, I guess he forgot and accidentally shipped my $1700 product. Until I hear what happened, I'll support Scott. He's earned my trust in the past.
Can I guarantee something nefarious didn't happen? No. But, for me personally, I'm comfortable saying innocent until proven guilty.
I think he chose his company name carefully and it stands for his values.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think time will tell and I'd be surprised if he doesn't resolve all this.
What I'm not saying is to sit idly by. Do what you need to try to make yourselves whole, but maybe don't plan to lynch him before you know 100% he's guilty. Past history should count for something.
There, my worthless $0.02 & opinion.

If I was a betting man, I'd put money on the lynch mob.

If all of this was on the up and up, then Scott (liberty) would have announced a closure of the business. He would not have deleted threads.

Did he ship out stuff recently? Apparently, but that helps with the ruse and still puts money in his pocket.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The people still defending him blows my mind. First of all this was not something unexpected, he’s got people with orders from April and May that weren’t paid or submitted to vortex. It has been confirmed and there’s no disputing that.

Let’s assume Scott is just moving and is closing his business in MT to reopen it elsewhere. Hypothetically. The right thing to do isn’t to terminate everything in a day including communications and not answer your phone for customers that have paid you thousands of dollars and you haven’t ordered and/or paid for their shit. Even if he fully intends to make this right and pay for everyone’s orders to get them shipped it’s still shady as fuck to lie to people about there orders being placed with vortex and then come on here and delete your big thread and shut everything down.

If he’s got some struggle going on in life financially it’s no excuse for using customers money to fund that who have paid for their orders.

At the very least he should have contacted his customers or made a post here stating he’s having troubles and apologize. He’s done nothing, all he’s done is ghosted.

If you can’t see where the issue lies and the complete lack of integrity then you’re either blind or completely ignorant.

 

[308pirate]

While I haven't ever met Scott, I've done business with him several times - each time he's held up his end. Last time I ordered was Sept 24th, and guess what, I got the product last week. From what I'm hearing of "planned" theft, I guess he forgot and accidentally shipped my $1700 product. Until I hear what happened, I'll support Scott. He's earned my trust in the past.
Can I guarantee something nefarious didn't happen? No. But, for me personally, I'm comfortable saying innocent until proven guilty.
I think he chose his company name carefully and it stands for his values.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think time will tell and I'd be surprised if he doesn't resolve all this.
What I'm not saying is to sit idly by. Do what you need to try to make yourselves whole, but maybe don't plan to lynch him before you know 100% he's guilty. Past history should count for something.
There, my worthless $0.02 & opinion.

Man some people are gullible right to the bitter end.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The website is back up. Perhaps those of you that believe in him can place some orders to finance him paying for the customers orders who have been on hold for months? You know, put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Jonesky]

This is about to get interesting.

 

[diverdon]

I buy my Vortex from EuroOptic. You set up an account as a veteran, you get a nice discount on Vortex and some other products. They keep most stuff in stock. Regardless they do not charge you until your order is ready to go out.

Vortex is not a custom item. If you got scammed, I am sorry. But take a minute to ask your self why you would pay a vendor for a mass produced item that is not on his shelf. Why would a vendor ask for your money in advance for product he's not ready to ship?

 

[vinniedelpino]

I'm not going to pretend I know what's going on here, but dissolving the llc is definitely a weird move.

LLCs are organized at the state level and laws, processes and procedures vary a bit from state to state. As a general rule, when an LLC with known creditors is dissolved prematurely, the members of the LLC are held personally liable for those debts and/or obligations of the business.

You can't just dissolve an LLC and flip everyone the bird. Things don't work like that.

Whatever's going on, I bet this Scott guy is in a really bad place. Maybe it's a hail mary "fuck you" to an ex looking to cash in on the business? A complete mental breakdown? Or a debilitating drug addiction? Who knows...

Whatever it is, it's probably pretty bad. This is not a rational plan of attack, even if the business was on its last legs. Panicking is never good.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

People trying to recoup their money is not panicking. It’s a perfectly reasonable response when everything points to something shady happening.

Whatever Scott may have going on it’s not his customers problem, it’s his own and nobody else should pay for it.

 

[carbonbased]

Website back up? Jesus wtf is going on? Lol

Panicking is never good.

Vinnie is probably referring to Scott panicking. Could be wrong though.

And with that name, Vinnie is probably a hit man trying to flush Scott out into the open lol

 

[vinniedelpino]

People trying to recoup their money is not panicking. It’s a perfectly reasonable response when everything points to something shady happening.

Whatever Scott may have going on it’s not his customers problem, it’s his own and nobody else should pay for it.

Yeah man. I was referring to Scott panicking.

Nobody in their right mind drops off the face of the earth and dissolves an LLC like that. He definitely didn't consult with an attorney before pulling that maneuver.

Same team.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I buy my Vortex from EuroOptic. You set up an account as a veteran, you get a nice discount on Vortex and some other products. They keep most stuff in stock. Regardless they do not charge you until your order is ready to go out.

Vortex is not a custom item. If you got scammed, I am sorry. But take a minute to ask your self why you would pay a vendor for a mass produced item that is not on his shelf. Why would a vendor ask for your money in advance for product he's not ready to ship?

They do for backordered items. Go order some 105 or 109 hybrids from EO an watch that money disappear from your account while you wait forever.

Try to keep up, No one cares about your life experience with EO (that most of us already use and know how they work)

People need to really shut the fuck up and stay in their lane. Scott has a proven business model that has worked longer than half you cocksuckers even been shooting. He build alot of trust and loyalty here, something you know nothing about. That is why this is so painful, its not some fly by night scam. Its literally the last person anyone would expect. When you can get a product for 30-40% cheaper than anywhere else, but have to wait a few months, that's a trade off people made. It worked for a long time.

So take a minute and ask yourself to shut the fuck up about things you don't understand.

 

[gbaby125]

They do for backordered items. Go order some 105 or 109 hybrids from EO an watch that money disappear from your account while you wait forever.

Try to keep up, No one cares about your life experience with EO (that most of us already use and know how they work)

People need to really shut the fuck up and stay in their lane. Scott has a proven business model that has worked longer than half you cocksuckers even been shooting. He build alot of trust and loyalty here, something you know nothing about. That is why this is so painful, its not some fly by night scam. Its literally the last person anyone would expect. When you can get a product for 30-40% cheaper than anywhere else, but have to wait a few months, that's a trade off people made. It worked for a long time.

So take a minute and ask yourself to shut the fuck up about things you don't understand.

Scott!!!!!!!! Is this you??

You better pay up. You owe people allot of money.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Scott!!!!!!!! Is this you??

You better pay up. You owe people allot of money.

Yea, I stole $3,800 from myself. Maybe go back and read the threads before opening the cock receptacle.

As one of the people he owes money to, The fact I have to explain how modern business/commerce works, shows how clueless and ignorant some of you are.

 

[gbaby125]

Yea, I stole $3,800 from myself. Maybe go back and read the threads before opening the cock receptacle.

As one of the people he owes money to, The fact I have to explain how modern business/commerce works, shows how clueless and ignorant some of you are.

But yet here you are still sticking up for the man. Shows how gullible you are.

 

[GIXXER2000]

Good luck to all hope your Credit Card companies do the right thing.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

Had done many good deals with Scott - but...I had done some good business with Pete Lesbo too. Sometimes people fall apart.

There is another odd possibility - could he be dead and we are seeing activities from his estate lawyer?

 

[carbonbased]

But yet here you are still sticking up for the man. Shows how gullible you are.

Oh ha! Man. You don’t know Mr. @DeathBeforeDismount! But I’ll defend anyone if I think they have been wronged.

Please correct me if I am in error, but I believe all he is saying is to please be quiet unless you have something useful to add to the conversation.

Popping in and humble-bragging, “Yawn. I get all my stuff from EO. Nary a problem. Ta ta!” is not useful.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

But yet here you are still sticking up for the man. Shows how gullible you are.

Where did I stick up for him? You have brain damage or something? Or do you routinely pull statements out of your ass?

 

[stanley_white]

Current Evidence > Past Performance

“Rationalizations are more important than sex.”



-Stan

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Had done many good deals with Scott - but...I had done some good business with Pete Lesbo too. Sometimes people fall apart.

There is another odd possibility - could he be dead and we are seeing activities from his estate lawyer?

Someone said they already scoured the obituaries and didn't see anything. It wouldn't make sense to dissolve the LLC, until they found out if creditors were owed anything or if there was outstanding monies owed to LO. Also, why would someone log in and delete only one thread from SH, Shut down the website and cut off the phone if there was still business that needed to be resolved?

LLC protection doesn't really mean shit if you are conducting fraud. A C -corp would actually provide more protection but is taxed differently/higher and costs more to incorporate. Either way you can pierce the corporate veil due to criminality.

There is no other possibility but fraud/willful actions at the point. Who knows what the ultimate motive is honestly.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They do for backordered items. Go order some 105 or 109 hybrids from EO an watch that money disappear from your account while you wait forever.

Try to keep up, No one cares about your life experience with EO (that most of us already use and know how they work)

People need to really shut the fuck up and stay in their lane. Scott has a proven business model that has worked longer than half you cocksuckers even been shooting. He build alot of trust and loyalty here, something you know nothing about. That is why this is so painful, its not some fly by night scam. Its literally the last person anyone would expect. When you can get a product for 30-40% cheaper than anywhere else, but have to wait a few months, that's a trade off people made. It worked for a long time.

So take a minute and ask yourself to shut the fuck up about things you don't understand.

I have two items backordered with EO right now, not a dime charged. Over the years I can guarantee you I’ve backordered at least 100 times and have never once been charged a thing or been asked for payment until the item is ready to ship. That includes Berger bullets and ammo orders as well. I get an invoice when I place the order, when the item comes in I get a call, they confirm what address I want it sent to and ask which CC I want it charged to and the security code and a few minutes later I get a paid invoice with a tracking number.

Scott’s proven business model just proved to fuck a lot of people who he strung along beyond the charge back period and are likely to be up shits creek.

Never mind the fact he’s giving people weeks or months for lead times for items that are clearly in stock because he’s using new customers orders to fund previous customers orders because somewhere along the line he’s used customers payments as a personal line of credit. Yeah great business model.

He had an overall reputation in the industry (aside from competitors who were playing fair and were in their right to be pissed off at him) and people knew him. He could have not undercut other dealers as much, made more of a profit and still gotten plenty of orders.

 

[MinistryOfTruth]

There is no other possibility but fraud/willful actions at the point. Who knows what the ultimate motive is honestly.

I understand your point and don't have anything to dispute it - but I HOPE this isn't the case. I'd almost rather he be dead than have fucked everyone.

And its SO strange. I had considered his customer support ethic one of the strongest in the business. That said, someone I knew well got brain cancer and went totally fucking nuts last year so I understand how sometimes its out of our control.

 

[gbaby125]

Oh ha! Man. You don’t know Mr. @DeathBeforeDismount! But I’ll defend anyone if I think they have been wronged.

Please correct me if I am in error, but I believe all he is saying is to please be quiet unless you have something useful to add to the conversation.

Popping in and humble-bragging, “Yawn. I get all my stuff from EO. Nary a problem. Ta ta!” is not useful.

And you're sticking up for a man who has a track record of shit-posting insults and name calling.

His narcissistic behavior here is an absolute disgrace for someone who is an experienced LR shooter.

Here's something useful for you. I never liked the way he set up his website from the get-go and always had a bad feeling about it so I never bothered to order anything from there. Looks like I was right..

But you are also right. I Have no dog in this fight here so I'll stop posting, and sincerely hope that all of you, including dip shit, get your money back.

 

[carbonbased]

And you're sticking up for a man who has a track record of shit-posting insults and name calling.

When someone is right, they are right regardless of what they’ve done.

Not defending someone in that instance is cowardly, you know?

I think he has some good things to say sometimes. But the chest-beating part of him sometimes (unfortunately) wins.

We all have problems, buddy.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I have two items backordered with EO right now, not a dime charged. Over the years I can guarantee you I’ve backordered at least 100 times and have never once been charged a thing or been asked for payment until the item is ready to ship. That includes Berger bullets and ammo orders as well. I get an invoice when I place the order, when the item comes in I get a call, they confirm what address I want it sent to and ask which CC I want it charged to and the security code and a few minutes later I get a paid invoice with a tracking number.

Scott’s proven business model just proved to fuck a lot of people who he strung along beyond the charge back period and are likely to be up shits creek.

Never mind the fact he’s giving people weeks or months for lead times for items that are clearly in stock because he’s using new customers orders to fund previous customers orders because somewhere along the line he’s used customers payments as a personal line of credit. Yeah great business model.

He had an overall reputation in the industry (aside from competitors who were playing fair and were in their right to be pissed off at him) and people knew him. He could have not undercut other dealers as much, made more of a profit and still gotten plenty of orders.

First of all, I and many others have had EO draw funds for back ordered items. Its why people go through OP instead of them, so they dont hold the funds. Maybe something changed but as of a few months ago, this was the case.

Who knows what Vortex/Scotts business relationship or model was. I can think of a ton of possibilities/arrangements that would make sense.

Maybe he gets a better price for being lower priority for shipments. Maybe since he is ordering them early they are put in LOW order. Maybe the He gets something like 30 Net 5. Maybe Scott was taking the money, and investing it in a 30-60 day short term security that was guaranteed, and could sell at minimum profit due to making money on money. There are a ton of creative financing that virtually every corporation in the world uses to put money at work making more money. Entire markets revolve around daily financing.

These scopes are not mass produced. Either vortex has a revolving order that they can or cannot surge or they order based on demand that is modeled. The factory may cut vortex pricing deals with longer lead time orders or being about fill out production runs. Manufacturing and distributing is complicated and there are alot of opportunities for cost savings and losses.

I always assumed he had some deal with vortex to sell where he was selling. All the other competitors knew (or should have at this point). Maybe he was considered small potatoes and ignored. Without a doubt, Vortex knew he was selling below MAP and more than one dealer told me his prices were bellow their dealer cost. This has gone on for atleast 10 years with Vortex, so they must have been ok with it. So he had to have some dealer structure with vortex, which is not crazy since he was around since the beginning.

You seem real concerned about this for someone that I don't think is effected.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

And you're sticking up for a man who has a track record of shit-posting insults and name calling.

His narcissistic behavior here is an absolute disgrace for someone who is an experienced LR shooter.

Here's something useful for you. I never liked the way he set up his website from the get-go and always had a bad feeling about it so I never bothered to order anything from there. Looks like I was right..

But you are also right. I Have no dog in this fight here so I'll stop posting, and sincerely hope that all of you, including dip shit, get your money back.

Seriously you are a nobody. Dont even know who you are.


You have no skin in the game, you don't understand what is going on, and are doing nothing but trying to sling shit at people who were defrauded by someone who was revered in this community up until a week ago. So read the room a bit bub and go crawl back into whatever troll hole you came from.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Website back up? Jesus wtf is going on? Lol


Vinnie is probably referring to Scott panicking. Could be wrong though.

And with that name, Vinnie is probably a hit man trying to flush Scott out into the open lol

Pffft.

I'm a sanitation consultant.

I also own two strip clubs and pork store.

They're just in my mother's name.

 

[kswaterfowl]

This sucks to hear. I've bought scopes and lrf binos from him, because he always had the best prices. Every transaction I had with him was good, and he would always call back if I left a message.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Pffft.

I'm a sanitation consultant.

I also own two strip clubs and pork store.

They're just in my mother's name.

The real owner of Barone Sanitation LOL

 

[MarinePMI]

They do for backordered items. Go order some 105 or 109 hybrids from EO an watch that money disappear from your account while you wait forever.

Try to keep up, No one cares about your life experience with EO (that most of us already use and know how they work)

People need to really shut the fuck up and stay in their lane. Scott has a proven business model that has worked longer than half you cocksuckers even been shooting. He build alot of trust and loyalty here, something you know nothing about. That is why this is so painful, its not some fly by night scam. Its literally the last person anyone would expect. When you can get a product for 30-40% cheaper than anywhere else, but have to wait a few months, that's a trade off people made. It worked for a long time.

So take a minute and ask yourself to shut the fuck up about things you don't understand.

Diverdon has been on this site for many years. I think you need to chill a bit before responding anymore to this thread.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

First of all, I and many others have had EO draw funds for back ordered items. Its why people go through OP instead of them, so they dont hold the funds. Maybe something changed but as of a few months ago, this was the case.

Who knows what Vortex/Scotts business relationship or model was. I can think of a ton of possibilities/arrangements that would make sense.

Maybe he gets a better price for being lower priority for shipments. Maybe since he is ordering them early they are put in LOW order. Maybe the He gets something like 30 Net 5. Maybe Scott was taking the money, and investing it in a 30-60 day short term security that was guaranteed, and could sell at minimum profit due to making money on money. There are a ton of creative financing that virtually every corporation in the world uses to put money at work making more money. Entire markets revolve around daily financing.

These scopes are not mass produced. Either vortex has a revolving order that they can or cannot surge or they order based on demand that is modeled. The factory may cut vortex pricing deals with longer lead time orders or being about fill out production runs. Manufacturing and distributing is complicated and there are alot of opportunities for cost savings and losses.

I always assumed he had some deal with vortex to sell where he was selling. All the other competitors knew (or should have at this point). Maybe he was considered small potatoes and ignored. Without a doubt, Vortex knew he was selling below MAP and more than one dealer told me his prices were bellow their dealer cost. This has gone on for atleast 10 years with Vortex, so they must have been ok with it. So he had to have some dealer structure with vortex, which is not crazy since he was around since the beginning.

You seem real concerned about this for someone that I don't think is effected.

Dude I've been dealing with EO since Alex was answering the phones and they were setting up at the dulles gun show until now. I've never had this happen nor anyone else I know who has backordered items. It's not how they do business from my experience and friends.

You can say/assume/praise Scotts business model until your head explodes, but look where are... Anyone defending this is a fucking fool and clearly has no clue about retail business operations.

Seriously you are a nobody. Dont even know who you are.

Who the fuck are you? Are you a somebody?

You're an enthusiast like 99% of us here so get off your high horse.

You're playing an odd angle here for someone that's supposedly out of money. Defending Scott and his business model, to shitting on him, to shitting on people who show support for those involved.

 

[Charmingmander]

Jesus Christ both of the threads on this are a shitshow with people bickering back and forth over literally nothing.

How hard is it to not argue with each other and focus on the actual issue at hand? Calm down you idiots.

 

[Sgp12345]

Dude I've been dealing with EO since Alex was answering the phones and they were setting up at the dulles gun show until now. I've never had this happen nor anyone else I know who has backordered items. It's not how they do business from my experience and friends.

You can say/assume/praise Scotts business model until your head explodes, but look where are... Anyone defending this is a fucking fool and clearly has no clue about retail business operations.



Who the fuck are you? Are you a somebody?

You're an enthusiast like 99% of us here so get off your high horse.

You're playing an odd angle here for someone that's supposedly out of money. Defending Scott and his business model, to shitting on him, to shitting on people who show support for those involved.

Are we talking about EO charging for back order?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Who the fuck are you? Are you a somebody?

You're an enthusiast like 99% of us here so get off your high horse.

You're playing an odd angle here for someone that's supposedly out of money. Defending Scott and his business model, to shitting on him, to shitting on people who show support for those involved.

He’s a middle of the road kinda guy.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Are we talking about EO charging for back order?

Cool, they can have policies and not enforce them.

I had an order for an AI folding hinge which is extremely high demand, no payment. Got the call to see if I still wanted it, I didn't need it yet and elected to pass it on to someone else in line. I got back in line and still am... not charged again...

 

[MarinePMI]

I think this thread has run it's course.