I'm a reloading dumbass

[DocRDS]

Since someone else posted their FUBAR, I'm posting mine in case someone else learns from it.

I'm shooting some nice 140 ELD-M @ 41.5 (6.5 manbun bruh) that has been a killer load for me. Some of them are not fitting and I'm all "DAMMIT NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN" as I have trouble maintaining my headspace. in the past. I swear to god I checked these in the rifle before loading and yet here we are.

Just trying to get some recoil practice in and shoot enough ammo to get 50 brass to load up with 50 more brass I have sitting at home.

Hmmmmmm there's some primers on the bench, that guy musta had a bad day.

OH SHIT THOSE ARE MY PRIMERS!!

And HOLY FUCK THERE ARE EJECTOR MARKS ARE THE BRASS SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT!! (I'd run this load in virgin brass 0 issues).

So now I am in a quandary--I may have fucked up my nice rifle (it looks ok) BUt how in the hell did I get the headspacing wrong and overpressure.

Pulled a round. It measures perfect OAL. 41.5 grains of powder on the dot, verified with my weight system.

What in the actual hell is going on--I'm just a goddman moron. Look at the Headspace comparator....

It has the "E" insert in it.

6.5 takes the "C" insert.

And I am a dumbass for missing that.

 

[rustyinbend]

Almost as good as the time I screwed my SilencerCo Chimera-300 wrong on my 300 Win Mag ... and had to call a cease-fire while I walked 15 yards downrange to pull my destroyed suppressor out of the sand. Those are the lessons we learn ... FOREVER. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rlsmith1]

Same. Except I can’t get a 77SMK / TAC load to approach MOA out of my Criterion or 20” RRA stainless ARs. RRA guarantees 3/4 MOA out of that barrel and I’ve seen it before.

Pretty sure it’s a combo or reloading and shooting technique. Might as well keep guessing tho right?

 

[Jefe's Dope]

It takes quite a man to admit his mistakes. But you likely saved someone else form making the same. Thanks for that.

We also need pictures so we can really haze you.

 

[TheGerman]

Its ok.

Years ago when doing the math on what bushing insert I'd need in a Redding die, I must have forgot to carry the 1 or added when I was supposed to subtract or something because I ended up running a whole box of brand new 308WIN Lapua brass through it that turned the neck into some smaller caliber wildcat thing.

Basically I pizza'd when I should have french fried.

Apparently my lubing skills were on point because I didn't even notice other than 1 or 2 times where it felt like getting the case out of the die took a little extra.

 

[straightshooter1]

Since someone else posted their FUBAR, I'm posting mine in case someone else learns from it.

I'm shooting some nice 140 ELD-M @ 41.5 (6.5 manbun bruh) that has been a killer load for me. Some of them are not fitting and I'm all "DAMMIT NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN" as I have trouble maintaining my headspace. in the past. I swear to god I checked these in the rifle before loading and yet here we are.

Just trying to get some recoil practice in and shoot enough ammo to get 50 brass to load up with 50 more brass I have sitting at home.

Hmmmmmm there's some primers on the bench, that guy musta had a bad day.

OH SHIT THOSE ARE MY PRIMERS!!

And HOLY FUCK THERE ARE EJECTOR MARKS ARE THE BRASS SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT!! (I'd run this load in virgin brass 0 issues).

So now I am in a quandary--I may have fucked up my nice rifle (it looks ok) BUt how in the hell did I get the headspacing wrong and overpressure.

Pulled a round. It measures perfect OAL. 41.5 grains of powder on the dot, verified with my weight system.

What in the actual hell is going on--I'm just a goddman moron. Look at the Headspace comparator....

It has the "E" insert in it.

6.5 takes the "C" insert.

And I am a dumbass for missing that.

At my age (mid 70's), I find I always have to be extra attentive to avoid Faux pas, but . . . the damn things still happen.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

are you sure that was the problem? it's a comparator after all. they all measure off the shoulder.

I just use D400 on everything from 308 to 300PRC. it works, just numbers don't exactly jive with saami.

C.375"
D.400"
E.420"

 

[greentick]

Blame it on the time change. Bleeping daylight savings time.

 

[DocRDS]

are you sure that was the problem? it's a comparator after all. they all measure off the shoulder.

I just use D400 on everything from 308 to 300PRC. it works, just numbers don't exactly jive with saami.

C.375"
D.400"
E.420"

The E is just large enough that it measures at the far back of the should. If it was a 'D', it probably woulda worked.

 

[ICU22250]

Same. Except I can’t get a 77SMK / TAC load to approach MOA out of my Criterion or 20” RRA stainless ARs. RRA guarantees 3/4 MOA out of that barrel and I’ve seen it before.

Pretty sure it’s a combo or reloading and shooting technique. Might as well keep guessing tho right?

Try IMR 8208, shoots great in my bolt rifle, I love it.. just wish I could add more of it to my 18lbs I already have.. Shit is like unobtanium...

 

[hafejd30]

Everyone has mistakes. Luckily you likely caught it without doing damage. I’ve been lucky to avoid the major mishaps

I did have several bags of brass laying around. One just being rejects for the garbage. Thought I grabbed my bag of fired Winchester 308 brass to tumble and load for a hunting rifle. About 1 hour into tumbling I realized my bag of junk brass was in the tumbler. Not really a danger but felt stupid non the less

 

[rlsmith1]

Try IMR 8208, shoots great in my bolt rifle, I love it.. just wish I could add more of it to my 18lbs I already have.. Shit is like unobtanium...

That's the problem right there! I have a hunch part of my issue is my shooting fundamentals. Working on that too

 

[TxWelder35]

I’m not convinced that a little bit of headspace difference is going to surely make pressure unless it’s off by some retarded amount and you ingnored the fact that it was odd you needed to screw your die down some retarded amount.

 

[TxWelder35]

Its ok.

Years ago when doing the math on what bushing insert I'd need in a Redding die, I must have forgot to carry the 1 or added when I was supposed to subtract or something because I ended up running a whole box of brand new 308WIN Lapua brass through it that turned the neck into some smaller caliber wildcat thing.

Basically I pizza'd when I should have french fried.

Apparently my lubing skills were on point because I didn't even notice other than 1 or 2 times where it felt like getting the case out of the die took a little extra.

You turned it into 260 brass thus making it better.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I just did a test this weekend with random headspaced brass from +.0025 forced close to -.010. and didn't have any pressure issues.


maybe carbon ring?

I’m not convinced that a little bit of headspace difference is going to surely make pressure unless it’s off by some retarded amount and you ingnored the fact that it was odd you needed to screw your die down some retarded amount.

me either.

 

[DocRDS]

I understand the skepticism. Measured brass is actually oversized and shows drag marks on a markered case at the top of the case body. Headspace would have been super tight (0.006 over virgin brass of same type), and OD was 0.005 over the same at various points on the case body. Point being it was not chambering correctly and thus not formed properly (thats on me) Ejector Swipes are not consistent, only 4 primers came out and no brass was dirty. I didn;t notice the missing primers as I put my brass in "primer down" and there was no heavy bolt lift at all.

It was a bad load so I'm pulling them all and going back to sqaure one. I may stop with the 0.003 bump and just go full resize and anneal until i get this figured out.

RIfle has less than 100 rounds down it. i don't have a bore scope, but I'd put carbon ring down the list.

Also my first assumption is a fat fingered the powder measure high, but it came out exact. I had trouble getting consistent headspace on this batch during sizing (even posted about it) so I suspect I FUBAR'D at that point. The headspace compare was just a false reading and indicates bad die setup, along with the chambering issues.

 

[918v]

I use Redding competition shell holders. No headspace issues.

 

[jakelly]

I’ve beat bolts shut that didn’t cause significant increase in pressure. Less space leaves head separation as the concern. I think this pressure is coming from somewhere else. How are you measuring seating depth?

 

[DocRDS]

COAL. This is not an advanced load. Its textbook from Hornady Reloading manual. I worked it up with no issues. COAL 2.800. I tested up to 42 Grains but was happy with 41.5 as that node was about 2720 fps and why push it faster as 41.5 has given me great accuracy.

Brass were primer came out looks the same as normal deprimed brass. Maybe primer pockets are just loose. Either way, its enough to restart my load process from square 1.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

we're the primers that fell out flat? severe swipe? brass pushed into the ejector?

 

[DocRDS]

Nope. No brass into the ejector. It was a light swipe on a few cases. No cratering (i know not the most reliable sign) and no heavy bolt lift. I would be surprised at the loose primer pockets as this is only round 2 (starline brass), but it could be. Ejector swipes are a little more "shiny" than the rest of the brass. (uploading some pics in a bit)

 

[DocRDS]

You can see the swipe marks in the top--its pretty evident here, but you definitly have to hit the light right to see it. Present on maybe 1/3. Also this is one with the primer coming out. Then we have one that fired fine and pictures of my bolt trying to get the light into it. You really have to look for the ejector swipes unless the light hits it just right.

 

[jakelly]

I don’t think that you’ve got to the bottom of this yet. This just doesn’t add up, something is missing. It’s nice of you to share your “oops” to help other shooters, in that spirit, I’d hate to see you mess yourself or your rifle up.

 

[DocRDS]

I don’t think that you’ve got to the bottom of this yet. This just doesn’t add up, something is missing. It’s nice of you to share your “oops” to help other shooters, in that spirit, I’d hate to see you mess yourself or your rifle up.

No worries.

That's why I am hitting reset and working load back up. Better safe than sorry.

This is why I can't have nice things.

 

[acudaowner]

not a dumb ass maybe new to reloading or high on crack ok maybe a little bit of a dumb ass , but who started out learning how to do something was a pro at there first attempts ? Best of luck with future attempts .

 

[Bacarrat]

Just get the SAC Headspace comparator tool. It's one of the best tools I have used in a while. Expensive, but worth it if you check you headspace all the time.

 

[TxWelder35]

Did you clean your brass after sizing?

 

[jakelly]

There has to be a neck thickness issue, the brass is too long, or welded in the neck, something… I don’t know what exactly is happening, but I don’t think this is the direct result of headspace being off.

 

[TxWelder35]

There has to be a neck thickness issue, the brass is too long, or welded in the neck, something… I don’t know what exactly is happening, but I don’t think this is the direct result of headspace being off.

I’m going with didn’t clean lube off the brass

 

[jakelly]

I’m going with didn’t clean lube off the brass

That very well could be.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Gonna have to agree with above.

~ zero headspace for case feeding and expansion typically doesn’t cause pressure issues like that

Feeding and extraction issues yes. Pressure, not so much.

 

[DocRDS]

It could even been I screwed the pooch on load development. As to all the speculation, I appreciate the help--just feeling extra deflated as I thought I found the culrpit but now my whole process is suspect.

I'm gonna go be quiet now



and play with the idea of selling all my shit in the PX. (not really, just how I feel)

 

[savagemann]

Is it possible you used the wrong powder, or maybe dumped the wrong powder into that container?

 

[Bradv86]

Any chance you developed that load in some Hornady or other brass, and now are loading it in lower capacity Starline?

 

[jakelly]

No need to be deflated, the fix is gonna be easy, finding it might be a bit hard.

• This is a pretty well known load, lots of data points, you should be well below max, and certainly nowhere near blowing primers.
• There is real pressure here, Starline is tough stuff, this pressure is HIGH.
• This type of pressure usually results from something wrong up at the neck / bullet / rifling area.

Here’s a couple things to check-
Verify the powder and charge is right (it sounds like you have done this), clean the cases and chamber, measure the necks of fired brass vs loaded ammo (in 3 places 120* apart), drop a bullet in a fired case (does it fall in freely), and blacken a bullet and check for heavy land engagement on loaded ammo.

 

[918v]

Is that an AI bolt?

 

[DocRDS]

fired brass is .296/5 dia
Loaded brass is 0.290 dia
Brass thickness best i can measure is 0.014
bullets measured .264
A bullet will not seat in a fired case freely

The marker demo showed marks on the brass, not the bullet.

 

[ColinW]

If it makes you feel any smarter(not likely, but I'm hoping to at least ) I got a brand new box of Lapua 6.5 creedmoor brass a few years ago and went to size them. After about 5 cases, I realized something didn't quite "feel" right. I failed to consider the primer flash hole in Lapua brass is smaller than standard and I was anally raping brand new Lapua brass with too big of a decapping pin. Lesson learned.

 

[jakelly]

If a bullet won’t fall freely into a fired case, then there’s a donut forming in your brass, that’s your culprit.

 

[Taylorbok]

I understand the skepticism. Measured brass is actually oversized and shows drag marks on a markered case at the top of the case body. Headspace would have been super tight (0.006 over virgin brass of same type), and OD was 0.005 over the same at various points on the case body. Point being it was not chambering correctly and thus not formed properly (thats on me) Ejector Swipes are not consistent, only 4 primers came out and no brass was dirty. I didn;t notice the missing primers as I put my brass in "primer down" and there was no heavy bolt lift at all.

It was a bad load so I'm pulling them all and going back to sqaure one. I may stop with the 0.003 bump and just go full resize and anneal until i get this figured out.

RIfle has less than 100 rounds down it. i don't have a bore scope, but I'd put carbon ring down the list.

Also my first assumption is a fat fingered the powder measure high, but it came out exact. I had trouble getting consistent headspace on this batch during sizing (even posted about it) so I suspect I FUBAR'D at that point. The headspace compare was just a false reading and indicates bad die setup, along with the chambering issues.

There is a lot to unpack here. Possibly tight brass, maybe an over charge, bad die set up. I think you might need to take a long hard look at your reloading process and most likely slow down and pay more attention.

 

[savagemann]

If a bullet won’t fall freely into a fired case, then there’s a donut forming in your brass, that’s your culprit.

How does one get rid of brass donuts?
I have not yet had to deal with them.

 

[DocRDS]

I looked up what a donut was, and tbh i don't think that's it as the bullet wont even go in the the top of the brass. Only the boat tail sits there.

Which means I might have super tight brass. I measured the ID and its still at 0.260 on a fired case

 

[Taylorbok]

I looked up what a donut was, and tbh i don't think that's it as the bullet wont even go in the the top of the brass. Only the boat tail sits there.

Which means I might have super tight brass. I measured the ID and its still at 0.260 on a fired case

something is wrong, that's a neck turn chamber then.

 

[MarshallDodge]

When I was fairly new to reloading, I accidentally bought and loaded the wrong powder. This is back before the internet and I had read about Universal Clays in a magazine. A week later I was in a gunshop and saw a bottle of International Clays. In my head I didn't pay attention, thinking that it was the powder I was looking for.

I took it home and made up some 45ACP according to Universal book loads. When I shot them, the recoil was substantially more than I had felt on my other loads, and one of the cases ruptured. I went home and started double checking everything and realized my mistake.

I think Hodgdon has done a name change since then to keep others from making the same mistake.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

What is the cases over all length, has brass stretched and neck is hitting the chamber throat? I haven’t seen you mention measuring the brass length or trimming

 

[jakelly]

I looked up what a donut was, and tbh i don't think that's it as the bullet wont even go in the the top of the brass. Only the boat tail sits there.

Which means I might have super tight brass. I measured the ID and its still at 0.260 on a fired case

I’m not sure how you are measuring the ID, it’s tough without specific tools, but the dead giveaway is a bullet. If your bullet won’t slide into a fired piece of brass which hasn’t been resized, you’ve got a clearance problem. Like @Taylorbok said, you might have a neck turn chamber. I’m a little confused how your loaded ammo is .290”, but your bullet won’t slide into a .295/6” fired case. Could you confirm those figures?

 

[jakelly]

How does one get rid of brass donuts?
I have not yet had to deal with them.

Ream them out (inside) or turn them off (outside).

 

[918v]

If a bullet won’t fall freely into a fired case, then there’s a donut forming in your brass, that’s your culprit.

Not necessarily. A case mouth curled inward will prevent a bullet from falling freely into the case.

 

[918v]

I looked up what a donut was, and tbh i don't think that's it as the bullet wont even go in the the top of the brass. Only the boat tail sits there.

Which means I might have super tight brass. I measured the ID and its still at 0.260 on a fired case

That’s because the case mouth is curled inward.

 

[918v]

If your necks are too long the case mouth will pinch the bullet when the bolt closes.