Rifle Scopes I'm pissed about the parallax on my new LRHS!

[steve123]

I was all exited yesterday when I got home and saw two longish boxes sitting on the porch. I took them strait over to the shop and got out my AR to mount one up. Once the job was completed I got down prone and attempted to focus the scope at one of my airgun steels 30Y out on 12x. I thought to myself, crap there's something wrong with the scope, it's blurry and the parallax knob is at full stop. I looked up at the parallax knob and the line was at 50Y! @##$%^

Now before you make comments like...It's a long range hunting scope so why on earth would you want it to focus less than 50Y anyway, please let me explain.

Firstly, a few paragraphs down are the specs from GAP's post about the scope. Take special note where it states '''"side focus from 20' to inf"''''.

Secondly, two years ago I started selling all my scopes that have 50Y min parallax because I sometimes switch scopes around between rifles, like air rifles, rim fires or the tactical rifles. Simply put I need the versatility that close in parallax provides and can't afford $3000-4000 scopes to put on all my rifles to get the features I want, most of those the LRHS has. When the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS came out I thought it would be the final solution for me. Now I'm out of options again except for using cheaper scopes I'm not satisfied with. I'm shaking my head right now in disappointment even as I read my own post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I already sold my NF that was on the AR and have already mounted the LRHS so I'm between a rock and hard spot. I'm unsure what to do at this point and need to call Bushnell I guess before I make any decisions.

Do the LRHS's from GAP's group buy have 20' parallax? If so, would any of you guys trade me, please-please-please!

Bushnell LRHS Specs
3x12 power
FFP
22oz
13.4" long, comes with 2" sunshade
30mm Tube
44mm OBJ
1/10th Mil/Mil adjustments
10 MIL per rev low profile elevation knob
24 mils of travel
Zero Stop (Easy to Set!!)
10 mil per rev windadge , capped
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""side focus 20ft to INF""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
great field of view
great eye box
Glass on par with $2500+ scopes

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Well, I don't have that glass but the 50 yd. parallax marking means it's parallax free at 50 yds., and in most cases adjusting the parallax has nothing to do with focus per se but rather reticle jump. My guess is the ocular ring needs to be adjusted for your eye (the edge ring that houses the lens you are looking through, which turns separate of the power function.)

 

[Kiba]

I'm apprehensive about receiving my 2 today as well. The 2 new LRHS were slated to replace the older 3-12 x 44 FFP G2DMRs that were on my 10/22 and my air rifle. The 3-12 x 44 FFP had 10Y parallax but I wanted a replacement with 10 mil knobs and a zero stop-- and when George posted the new LRHS and said it had 20' / 7Y parallax I immediately ordered two thinking I had found the perfect replacements.

If my 2 LRHS arrive today with 50Y parallax I'm going to be *very* disappointed-- not just because they won't match the advertised specs but because the 50Y parallax will make it nearly unusable on the air rifle; I often use it for indoor position practice at about 11Y and the old 3-12 x 44FFP would be perfectly parallax free and in focus at that distance. The bigger problem is I've already sold the two older 3-12 x 44s! I could send the 2x LRHS back but I'd lose ~$400 if I had to buy 2 new 3-12 x 44 G2DMRs again.

For all current LRHS owners that have theirs in hand, please chime in! I'm going to be sitting at work wondering what's going to be in the boxes when I get home today...

 

[steve123]

Well, I don't have that glass but the 50 yd. parallax marking means it's parallax free at 50 yds., and in most cases adjusting the parallax has nothing to do with focus per se but rather reticle jump. My guess is the ocular ring needs to be adjusted for your eye (the edge ring that houses the lens you are looking through, which turns separate of the power function.)

I understand all that, thanks though.

One of the air rifle divisions I shoot is called Hunter Field Target. 12x is the max mag and we shoot at 3/8" kill zones at 10-15Y so we need the scope to be focused and the parallax will be close enough not to matter. I shoot inside of 50Y all the time at my house as well. With rimfire we have stages from 10Y on out.

Like the saying goes...Better to have and not need than need and not have. One of the best things about a S&B 5-25 is 10Y parallax, March too.

My S&B is mounted on the USFT air rifle right now for a big two day match this weekend. I would have liked to use the other LRHS on one of my other air rifles but....

 

[OpticsPlanet]

This might be a non factor, but are you shooting Spring piston or pneumatic? When I saw those scopes initially I asked if they were 'airgun' rated and was told they weren't rated for or at least 'tested on' spring pistons. If shooting pneumatic, no worries. Just wanted to throw that out there from what I asked Bushnell when they were released.

Trevor B.

 

[steve123]

PCP's.

Thanks Trevor

 

[DirtyDave]

I'll bet you can get it in focus if you back off the magnification

 

[Kiba]

I'll bet you can get it in focus if you back off the magnification

While that might be correct the LRHS was advertised with 7 yard parallax capability and Steve didn't receive what was advertised. It will not be ideal for his application (hunter field target) in its delivered state.

The old 3-12 x 44 ffp had 10y parallax capability and it would be clear and in focus on 12x at that distance as well. The LRHS was advertised at 7y, thus similar expectations. Steve had the expectation of 7Y parallax & focus when he ordered, as did I, because of the intended applications. Finding good scopes, let alone FFP/mil/mil scopes, with 10Y or less parallax capability is somewhat difficult and we both jumped thinking we had found a really good fit for the application. Unfortunately it looks like we might both be out some money-- maybe it was incorrect specs listed early on by George, maybe it was a disconnect at Bushnell on the manufacturing side and the initial 7Y spec didn't flow down to production.

Regardless, I'll know for sure in another 6 hours or so when I get to look at the scopes myself... but for now I'm worried I bought scopes that won't work in the application I purchased them for because of the disparity between the specs and what was actually delivered.

 

[ducdodgers]

I might be mistake but I believe that your scopes are covered by the 100% bullet proof warranty.
Meaning if your not happy with it for any reason you can return it for the purchase price within one year of purchase.
So I think you may be out shipping but you should get your price for the scope back.
I remember that GAP put that in the original release of the scope.

 

[Kiba]

I know I could get a refund if it comes down to it... but what will really piss me off is I already sold off my 2 old 3-12 x 44 G2DMRs just within the last 2 weeks knowing the LRHS were going to be arriving shortly. If what Steve says is true about the parallax I'll be returning the 2 LRHS and buying 2 more 3-12 G2DMRs just like I used to have-- only I'll be out about $400 or so based on the used sale price vs new replacement price for the same damn scopes. Bushnell's "100% bullet proof warranty" won't cover that. Probably should have waited and sold those after I had the LRHS in hand.

Still want to hear some input from current LRHS owners from the GAP group buy if the scopes truly have the 7Y parallax capability as was advertised.

 

[mefizto]

Greetings gentlemen,

I am in a similar situation as steve123, and Kiba. The thread mentioned and "old [Bushnell] 3-12 x 44 ffp", which focuses down to 10Y. Do you know its designation so that I can look for it? For example, is this the correct one: Amazon.com: Bushnell Elite Tactical G2 FFP Reticle LRS Riflescope, 3-12x44mm: Sports & Outdoors

Kindest regards,

M

 

[dieselgeek]

I only had one for a short time, but doesn't the parallax knob have a "stop" on it? If so could that maybe be what's keeping it from adjusting all the way down?

 

[mefizto]

Greetings all,

I am in the same situation like steve123 and Kiba, looking for a close focusing (10yards) scope. The thread mentions "old [Bushnell] 3-12 x 44 ffp". Can you please post model number. or any feature so that I can buy the correct one? E.g., is this one the correct model Amazon.com: Bushnell Elite Tactical G2 FFP Reticle LRS Riflescope, 3-12x44mm: Sports & Outdoors

Kindest regards,

M

 

[Kiba]

The ET3124F, ET3124FG, and ET3124FJ all have 10Y parallax. Reticles are mildot, G2DMR, and BTR-mil respectively. (G2DMR is easily my favorite.)

I've owned both the mil-dot and G2DMR models and can state without a doubt they will be both parallax free and in focus at 10Y at 12x.

I just sold my last ET3124FG a week ago in anticipation of the LRHS, now it looks like I'm going to have to buy another one!

 

[mefizto]

Hi Kiba,

thank you very much, I will hunt the one with mil-dot.

Kindest regards,

M

 

[lawman29]

Sightron SIII 3.5-10x44 has 10 yard parallax, side focus, but is not FFP.

Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS3.510X44LRMD-CM

Sightron SIII SS 3.510X44LRMD/CM SIIISS3510X44LRMD/CM

 

[fdkay]

The S-Tac 2.5-17.5 also down to 10 yards but is SFP

 

[steve123]

Thanks guys, I appreciate you trying to help!

I'm only looking for FFP mil/mil scopes though.

 

[steve123]

I know I could get a refund if it comes down to it... but what will really piss me off is I already sold off my 2 old 3-12 x 44 G2DMRs just within the last 2 weeks knowing the LRHS were going to be arriving shortly. If what Steve says is true about the parallax I'll be returning the 2 LRHS and buying 2 more 3-12 G2DMRs just like I used to have-- only I'll be out about $400 or so based on the used sale price vs new replacement price for the same damn scopes. Bushnell's "100% bullet proof warranty" won't cover that. Probably should have waited and sold those after I had the LRHS in hand.

Still want to hear some input from current LRHS owners from the GAP group buy if the scopes truly have the 7Y parallax capability as was advertised.

Hi Kiba,

I talked to a CS rep. He went through the whole rigmarole of how the scope wasn't designed for airguns, Blahblahblah and I explained to him that GAP had designed the features of the scope and advertised the specs of a 20' parallax which was most of the reason why I bought the scope and furthermore that it would be used on PCP's and rimfires.

Long story short is we'll have to send it back to them using their bullet proof warranty. Like you said were out the shipping and the hassle of it all including having to replace the scopes we sold.

I'm wishing March scopes were cheaper and offered better reticles right now!

Oh the pitfalls of being a Optics snob, haha.

 

[Kiba]

Steve: Saw your post over on the Yellow saying the same thing... wonderful.

Did the Bushnell rep give any clue where the hell the disconnect happened between the originally posted specs and what was actually delivered? 7Y to 50Y is a big change!

If I had an urgent need for the scopes in their originally promised specification I'd be pretty damn pissed... but I have other stuff I can use in the meantime even though I now have two rifles sitting scopeless because the LRHS will be the wrong tool for the job on both of those rifles because of the revised 50Y minimum parallax. Either way I'm looking at a $400+ loss to return the LRHS and buy two new 3-12 x 44 FFP G2DMRs to replace the mint used ones I sold over the last two weeks that were previously on the rifles!

I'll may keep one of the two LRHS I ordered for an upcoming 18" lightweight JP LRP-07 build but the second one will probably be returned unless one of my local buddies wants it.

Really frustrating situation, probably the last time I ever pre-order something based off specs alone and certainly the last time I'll sell old optics before having the new replacement optics in-hand.

It *really* sucks because the scope is everything George & Pat promised it would be except for the damn parallax. It's probably the nicest scope from Bushnell I've ever handled and I've had probably 10 or 12 Bushnells over the years from the AO 4200 back around 1999-2000 up through the DMR, ERS, and XRS. The glass is the best I've seen in a Bushnell, the elevation knob feels great with solid detents, the zero stop is cake to set & reset, the reticle is great, and the mag ring and parallax knob move very smoothly. The whole thing just feels "quality" when you use it and the size, weight, and form factor is great. If it arrived with the initially promised 7Y parallax I'd be *VERY* happy with the thing considering the price!

 

[Astrohog]

The bushnell bulletproof warranty is only good for one refund per household. So I am not sure how it would work for the guys that have two.

 

[E. Bryant]

Well, I don't have that glass but the 50 yd. parallax marking means it's parallax free at 50 yds., and in most cases adjusting the parallax has nothing to do with focus per se but rather reticle jump.

A parallax-free condition occurs when the objective image is focused on the same plane as the reticle. If the reticle has been properly focused (using the ocular adjustment) and the image is not in focus, parallax exists.

 

[Redmanss]

Damn Steve, that sucks. The close parallax was a feature that was really drawing me to the scope as well, and I'm disappointed to hear it didn't pan out that way. I just last month picked up two SWFA 3-15x for some Annies I acquired recently only because I couldn't budget two LRHS right now, but I was intending on picking up one or two later this year. The SS are great scopes, but they're still not "it" for me unless they introduce an HD version. The hunt for the perfect scope continues...

 

[steve123]

Damn Steve, that sucks. The close parallax was a feature that was really drawing me to the scope as well, and I'm disappointed to hear it didn't pan out that way. I just last month picked up two SWFA 3-15x for some Annies I acquired recently only because I couldn't budget two LRHS right now, but I was intending on picking up one or two later this year. The SS are great scopes, but they're still not "it" for me unless they introduce an HD version. The hunt for the perfect scope continues...

Very similar to the same scenario I went through a while back. Then sold one of the SWFA 3-15's because of the glass quality. Like you said, not quite "it" for me either. I like it better than the BSA 4-14's for obvious reasons but the SWFA isn't 3 times the scope when compared against each other.

The other 3-15 I used in the shop in the winter at 6Y, where I can take advantage of it's coolest attribute.

The other LRHS, which I'll have to send back now, was going on my 1827F, oh well.

I suppose I'll keep one LRHS and leave it mounted on my AR.

 

[CSTactical]

It would be nice to have it go down to 10yds or so but I will say the LRHS are very nice scopes. I have been really happy with what I see.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[Kiba]

It would be nice to have it go down to 10yds or so but I will say the LRHS are very nice scopes. I have been really happy with what I see.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL

Mike, the problem Steve and I have is not that "it would have been nice to go down to 10yds"-- it's because we both preordered the scopes with specific applications in mind because George stated several times the scopes would have 20' / 7Y parallax and the applications we had in mind required that close in parallax capability. There was a disconnect somewhere between the advertised spec and what was physically produced and what was delivered is not what was promised... and that's the source of the frustration.

I do agree with you that the LRHS is a damn nice scope in every other way with the exception of the parallax snafu; it exceeded my expectations. As I said above it's probably the nicest scope Bushnell has produced to date IMO and it would be an awesome scope for the applications I purchased them for had they been delivered with the promised 7Y parallax capability. Unfortunately because of the 50Y parallax it won't work well for the applications I initially purchased them for.

 

[CSTactical]

I agree that would be frustrating, I would think and hope they take care of you guys.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[lennyo3034]

I see your guys' points and I think I would be frustrated as well. Did you contact Bushnell or the dealer to see if they would take the scopes back? Even if it had been mounted, the scope did not meet advertised specifications.

 

[steve123]

I didn't contact the dealer I bought from because it's not his fault. I'll just send it back to Bushnell.

Troy, no they didn't say why or how the disconnect happened. The CS rep was treating me like I was ignorant about rifle scopes and that I had basically purchased the wrong scope.

I went out and shot the AR with the LRHS atop this morning. Pretty nice scope! I now have mil/mil FFP scopes on all my rifles, yay!

 

[silentheart]

Correct me on this. I thought Bushnell has the policy to buy back the scope if you are not happy within 1 year? Another question I have. Did you check the lowest magnification and see if parrelex free goes down to 10yd?

 

[Kiba]

Correct me on this. I thought Bushnell has the policy to buy back the scope if you are not happy within 1 year? Another question I have. Did you check the lowest magnification and see if parrelex free goes down to 10yd?

Yep, Bushnell will buy them back, limit one per household according to their terms, owner pays shipping.

I know the dealer I purchased it from would take it back but I don't want to stick him with the CC processing/refund fees and eating the shipping costs... the mix-up wasn't his fault and he shouldn't be the one paying for the screw up.

To further confuse the issue on Bushnell's official web page for the LRHS it only states "side parallax adjustment" but doesn't give an adjustment range. Only in George's initial posts on here and on Long Range Hunting (and probably elsewhere) did it state "side focus from 20' to infinity." I pre-ordered based of George's specs; since he and Pat designed the scopes I thought they'd be correct. I still want to hear from George or Pat if their initial preproduction scopes had 20' parallax capability as was listed.

While dialing the mag down inside of 50Y helps with the focus and parallax issue (it's actually not too bad on lower magnifications inside of 50Y, but it's not good either) that still doesn't change the fact that what was delivered doesn't match what was promised. I bought the LRHS expecting 7Y parallax and it was purchased to replace an older 3-12 x 44 FFP G2DMR that already had 10Y parallax capability. The LRHS is a better scope in every way compared to the old 3-12 x 44 FFP except for the 50Y parallax limitation. The old 3-12 x 44 FFP could be run at 12X at 10Y and be parallax free and perfectly in focus-- the LRHS as-delivered won't even come close to that. Dialed down around 6x or lower with the parallax bottomed out at 50Y while looking at a target at 25Y the LRHS has a slightly blurred image and there is some minor parallax issues. The bigger problem is since the image isn't quite focused inside of 50Y my eyes keep drifting in and out of focus as they can't decide if they want to focus on the reticle or the target at that distance; I can see either one or the other in focus but not both at the same time especially inside of about 35Y. That might be OK for one or two shots but forget a session of 10Y indoor practice with the air rifle with that kind of arrangement-- it hurts the eyes after a few minutes.

Anyways, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse at this point-- there's really nothing new to say.

 

[mr2.0]

Man that really a very disappointment, I was on the fence between this scope and March 3-24x42 awhile back.

 

[D_TROS]

Man that really a very disappointment, I was on the fence between this scope and March 3-24x42 awhile back.

This scope cant compete with the March in any way. If you can afford the March, I would def get it.

...Really frustrating situation, probably the last time I ever pre-order something based off specs alone and certainly the last time I'll sell old optics before having the new replacement optics in-hand...

I ordered the SWFA 5-20 because advertised down to 25y. No go. SUper lame and for rimfire shooting, 50y can work but you are always wishing it was less, and I don't even shoot air.

Now to not beat the horse any longer, the scope engineers I talked to explained why they don't do low parallax settings like this.

Due to mechanics, when you go close range parallax, it takes way more of the knob to turn to get there, so the side effect is that the further ranges are spaced very close together. So for example, going from 10y-50y will take spinning the knob over 50% of a rotation, 50y-100y would be a quarter turn, then from 100y-infinity would be less than a quarter turn (ie very sensitive setting for where the majority of shooters shoot).

So there is a trade off between parallax range and ease of adjustment at higher ranges. Everyone always wants lots of range, but it is not easily (affordable) to do, esp when the scope is advertised as a LONG RANGE hunting scope, where most if not all close range shots will be taken at low power where parallax isn't an issue.

But ya its annoying. And Im sure the initial Bushy guys said to George and Pat, ya 10y parallax is no problem. Until the real engineers saw the spec.

Regards,
DT

 

[Kiba]

I understand the extremely close range parallax settings require more lens movement to accomplish, and if you try to pack all that adjustment range into say 180 degrees of knob rotation the further distances really "bunch up" on the knob... but it can be done.

My S&B 5-25s have no issue with 10M parallax and the parallax knob isn't too bunched up... but the S&B has almost a full revolution of adjustment to spread it over.

The existing 3-12 x 44 FFP already had 10Y parallax-- but as you said the further distances get a little "bunched up" in the last bit of knob rotation. I know the LRHS was almost an entirely new design but the old 3-12 x 44 FFP demonstrated it was possible. Even Bushnell's 6-24 FFP has 25Y parallax which I would have been happy with on the LRHS.

Regarding the SWFA 5-20 HD, the very fist run SWFA 5-20's had 35Y parallax as they advertised. However, I picked up a couple more about 6 months later and not only had they fixed the knob alignment issue with the first run (60 splines on the early ones, 100 on the later run) but they also changed to 50Y parallax. It wasn't just a knob lettering change, there was definite differences in how close you could get for parallax & focus between the first batch of scopes and the later batch of scopes.

Anyways, I slapped one of the LRHS on my 10/22 today and took it to the range to test-- worked great for 50Y paper and 50Y silhouettes. Also plinked some steel at 200M. Really like the new elevation knob style. This particular scope is good for about 44-45Y on 12x, anything closer than that and it starts having parallax & focus issues at 12X. Not ideal for a rimfire but it works for now since I primarily use the 10/22 for 50Y silhouettes. Eventually I'll pull the LRHS and transfer it to the upcoming short & light JP LRP-07 build and pick up another of the previous model 3-12 x 44 FFP G2DMR for the 10/22... but for now the LRHS gets the job done.

 

[springer01]

That sucks because my XRS will focus down to 20 feet.

 

[Kiba]

That sucks because my XRS will focus down to 20 feet.

Really? I've had a DMR, ERS, and XRS... and the XRS only has 75Y parallax. When I did the initial bore sight and shots at 50Y with that scope the image was slightly out of focus regardless of magnification at 50Y. Turning the mag down helped some but even at 4.5x the image was slightly blurred. Didn't clean up and go perfectly in-focus until about 72Y at 30x. I called and confirmed with Bushnell that it's 75Y parallax for the XRS. Sold that scope too but only because I replaced it with another S&B 5-25.

 

[springer01]

Really? I've had a DMR, ERS, and XRS... and the XRS only has 75Y parallax. When I did the initial bore sight and shots at 50Y with that scope the image was slightly out of focus regardless of magnification at 50Y. Turning the mag down helped some but even at 4.5x the image was slightly blurred. Didn't clean up and go perfectly in-focus until about 72Y at 30x. I called and confirmed with Bushnell that it's 75Y parallax for the XRS. Sold that scope too but only because I replaced it with another S&B 5-25.

I can read the numbers on a gamo pellet trap target at 25 feet at 4.5x

 

[hartshot]

Just curious but what does LRHS stand for anyhow?

 

[jakelly]

Long Range Hunting Scope

 

[rchman]

I can read the numbers on a gamo pellet trap target at 25 feet at 4.5x

Being able to read a target and being able to read it while the reticle is in focus is two different things. I can read stuff inside my apt at 30ft with a NF fixed paralax 10x, but the reticle is completely blurred out. Yesterday we shot at 10y, and even at 3.5x on my HDMR, the reticle was fairly blurry.

 

[springer01]

Being able to read a target and being able to read it while the reticle is in focus is two different things. I can read stuff inside my apt at 30ft with a NF fixed paralax 10x, but the reticle is completely blurred out. Yesterday we shot at 10y, and even at 3.5x on my HDMR, the reticle was fairly blurry.

I understand that, didn't say my reticle was blurry because it's not.

 

[tipper]

Being able to read a target and being able to read it while the reticle is in focus is two different things. I can read stuff inside my apt at 30ft with a NF fixed paralax 10x, but the reticle is completely blurred out. Yesterday we shot at 10y, and even at 3.5x on my HDMR, the reticle was fairly blurry.

The ocular focus is strictly for the reticle focus.

 

[19Scout77]

Just curious but what does LRHS stand for anyhow?

Finally! Someone who gets it!!!

 

[B.A.C.]

I'd be willing to trade my 3-12 LRS for a LRHS. I'll even throw in a set of Seekins low rings. Problem solved.

 

[steve123]

I'd be willing to trade my 3-12 LRS for a LRHS. I'll even throw in a set of Seekins low rings. Problem solved.

If you happen to have a March 3-24 I'll trade you. I'll be a nice guy and let you keep those rings too. That would solve my problem because it has 10Y min parallax and twice the magnification. Make no mistake, I'd take a March 3-24 over a LRHS all day long even though I like the reticle in the LRHS better. I can also mount it on any rifle I own and use it like how I originally intended with the LRHS.

For me it's all about versatility so I need 10Y parallax. If March and S&B can design into their scopes 10Y parallax then so can any scope manufacturer. Why they don't is a mystery.

Don't get me wrong the LRHS is a nice scope. I'll be keeping it on my AR for now and mount a red dot on it later if I feel like I need to.

 

[B.A.C.]

My offer extends to anyone that is unhappy with their LRHS, granted that it is in similar condition to my LRS....new.

 

[Kinsman09]

I'm with Coons, I have an old bushnell 3-12x42(?)(44) mil dot, ffp, mil turrets, parallax 10Y, I'll trade anyone for their LRHS and throw in some money!

 

[DOA]

Man that really a very disappointment, I was on the fence between this scope and March 3-24x42 awhile back.

Why? Do you plan on mounting a RIFLE scope to an AIRGUN as well?

 

[steve123]

Look up Field Target air rifle competition. Specifically HFT or hunter division in this case since I would have used the LRHS for it.

I used a S&B 5-25 last weekend to win open division at the Temecula challenge.