Inherent advantage to larger calibers?

[calshipbuilder]

I'll start by saying I'm already pretty invested in a 338 improved project. I've been slow rolling it for the last couple years and just got my custom dies in. I also shoot 7 saum and 300 norma mag.

Looking at the available bullets today, I'm not seeing a significant ballistic advantage (outside of maybe the 285 warner) when comparing the big 30s and 7s to the 338.

Before I dig myself further down this 338 rabbit hole - I wanted to see if there's any thoughts as to why - if the on-paper ballistic difference is nominal - it makes any sense to step up to a larger caliber.

I understand seeing bullet splash is easier, but don't have any particular problems spotting my 7 out to 2100. I also understand that when you step up to 375s and higher, there's much higher BC bullets available.

The question here is, with EQUAL BC and Velocity numbers, and outside of the impact spotting benefit - would I gain anything in hit probability increase just by increasing the caliber.

 

[jasent]

Same bc and speed means only splash is better. Change the build over to 37XC and you will gain hit/% and splash, less windage, ect
Same action but single feed if that matters at all

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have had good success with my .338LM. At the SWE ELR matches in very low wind conditions I was able to compete with 375's on up when the 3 targets were about 1780,2200 and 2600. But once the wind came up it was over and we now shoot 4 targets with the 4th being 3000 to 3200. I have since gone to a 375CT and it just easier with a big cal. Yes the spotting on 285 to 300's is much harder passed 2000 yards.

 

[Yerman]

As already pointed out, I think the biggest advantages are splash and wind.

Drop is drop and you can always add elevation if you’re not making all the way there.

Another factor to consider is the bullets transition into sub and trans. Some bullets just do it better than others like the 400CE.

 

[SAPenguin]

You are being redirected...

I had the same question, and posed it over on accurate shooter, in the link above.. (I was comparing 7mm 180 hybrid vs 30 Cal 215 hybrid..very similar BC same velocity when shot from SAUM or Norma). Some very smart people chimed in. Long story short, remember that a BC is an average value, and while 2 different bullets might have same BC, they will loose their speed in different manner as they head toward Target.

Anecdotal, but I've found bigger heavier bullet more consistent at distance..assuming you can handle increased recoil.

 

[Steel head]

At times the extra splash factor is huge.

 

[jasent]

At times the extra splash factor is huge.

Agreed

 

[steve123]

Cal, you might as well skip 338 altogether and go to 375 cal since you already have the 7 and 30.

 

[Steel head]

Cal, you might as well skip 338 altogether and go to 375 cal since you already have the 7 and 30.

I agree with this.

 

[BS Shooter]

I have been dragging my feet on a 338 Lapua improved build for the same reason. I have a bunch of brass stock piled and would like to use it up rather than just sell it. Is there enough case there to push the 375 bullets effectively or do I just need to punt?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Pushing 375 bullets effectively from a LM Improved case?

Go the other way and scream 6mm or 7mm bullets out of it.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Steel head]

Hi,

Pushing 375 bullets effectively from a LM Improved case?

Go the other way and scream 6mm or 7mm bullets out of it.

Sincerely,
Theis

Even 300/338LM would be impressive with 250 ATips.

 

[jasent]

Sell the brass and dies to help fund a 375

 

[xdeano]

I've got a 338 norma that a good buddy of mine put together several years ago. It shoots unreal tiny groups. I picked up a 375ct last year, I wish I would have skipped the 338nm and went to the 375ct.

Velocity is higher, bc is higher, recoil is similar, in fact the impulse is much different. The 375 is less snappy. Brass and bullets are very similar in price. Better splash.

Oh and a loaded 375ct round in your hands will make them look freakishly small.

If you're a hunter adding the extra weight and velocity will give you a slight energy transfer also.

Xdeano

 

[calshipbuilder]

Sell the brass and dies to help fund a 375

Tempting - but this thread is putting a dent in their market value for sure!

My original plan after the 338ai was to skip the 375s and head straight to the 416.

Even 300/338LM would be impressive with 250 ATips.

Yes, but... I think you can push these smaller bullets too hard, especially shooting an all day match. I would have done a 7-300 norma improved if not for hearing about issues from last year's NF ELR PRS.

 

[calshipbuilder]

You are being redirected...

I had the same question, and posed it over on accurate shooter, in the link above.. (I was comparing 7mm 180 hybrid vs 30 Cal 215 hybrid..very similar BC same velocity when shot from SAUM or Norma). Some very smart people chimed in. Long story short, remember that a BC is an average value, and while 2 different bullets might have same BC, they will loose their speed in different manner as they head toward Target.

Anecdotal, but I've found bigger heavier bullet more consistent at distance..assuming you can handle increased recoil.

Thanks for the link. It would be nice if there was hard evidence that a larger caliber will do better through transonic. I got to image someone out there has done this kind of testing. On the first no-bs BC podcast, Litz mentioned that each bullet has a "fingerprint" on its actual drag curve, I wonder if he's done enough mapping of these fingerprints to make some generalized observations...

 

[Steel head]

Tempting - but this thread is putting a dent in their market value for sure!

My original plan after the 338ai was to skip the 375s and head straight to the 416.


Yes, but... I think you can push these smaller bullets too hard, especially shooting an all day match. I would have done a 7-300 norma improved if not for hearing about issues from last year's NF ELR PRS.

In that circumstance solids or possibly a standard bullet with some durability for sure.
I’ve recently had issues with blowing up 7mm bullets far slower than a 7-300NM capability.

 

[calshipbuilder]

I have been dragging my feet on a 338 Lapua improved build for the same reason. I have a bunch of brass stock piled and would like to use it up rather than just sell it. Is there enough case there to push the 375 bullets effectively or do I just need to punt?

The 375 allen express has some pretty decent numbers, but its no 37xc or 375 Cheytac.

 

[Geno C.]

Badlands precision has a 338 bullet that’s right at 1.000 g1. That’s a decent step up from the 30s and running in front of a lot of 375 bullets.

Now, a 338 snipetac, pushing 285gr bullets 34-3500fps, with a rebated rim to shoot out of a lapua action. That has a light class ringer written all over it

 

[BS Shooter]

Even 300/338LM would be impressive with 250 ATips.

I already have a 300 Lapua that I run 230 bergers in. I can use my brass for that but I honestly probably wont go through enough barrels on that to burn up 1100 plus pieces of brass I was wanting to step up to something heavier. I will check out the 375 Allen but will probably opt for the 37XC because I guess if your going to do it might as well go all the way!

 

[Steel head]

Thanks for the link. It would be nice if there was hard evidence that a larger caliber will do better through transonic. I got to image someone out there has done this kind of testing. On the first no-bs BC podcast, Litz mentioned that each bullet has a "fingerprint" on its actual drag curve, I wonder if he's done enough mapping of these fingerprints to make some generalized observations...

That guy from Australia has some interesting thoughts on transonic/subsonic.
He puts a lot less into it than some and he shoots pretty damn far with some small bullets quite often.

Seems the more I learn about this game the less hocus pocus and dark voodoo there is to it.

Good position
Good rifle
Good load
Good dope
Try your best on the wind

 

[jasent]

I agree and I bet many of the folks that thought they where not transitioning just didn’t realize the winds and different pressure the bullet is going through at these ranges or bad dope not realizing how bc changes. That and poor ballistic software of the old days, not to mention possible poor atmospheric inputs. I have not been shooting ELR all that long but I have not found a bullet that would not transition. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I haven’t seen it yet in my shooting

 

[Geno C.]

Cutting edge 377s wouldn’t transition for me out of my 1-10 barrel. They have the bc pretty well dialed in on that bullet. I switched to the 350 badlands, and my trans/subsonic problems went away. Same program, same shooter, same wind reading.

 

[jasent]

I believe it. those are just barely stable from 1:10 and they recommend going an inch faster for transitioning.
I’m running a 1:10 and have been thinking of running the 352gr sf mth for the same reason

 

[Geno C.]

I believe it. those are just barely stable from 1:10 and they recommend going an inch faster for transitioning.
I’m running a 1:10 and have been thinking of running the 352gr sf mth for the same reason

The adjusted bc for the 350s is .950 out of my gun at a little under 3200fps

 

[jasent]

The adjusted bc for the 350s is .950 out of my gun at a little under 3200fps

Is that for the badlands or ce

 

[Geno C.]

Badlands