Initial Berger 25 cal 135 LRHT review

[canezach]

I haven't seen a whole lot of reviews for the new Berger 25 caliber 135s, but I picked up a couple thousand to try out.

Specs are:
Accuracy International AXSA
26" K&P barrel 1:7 chambered in 25 Creedmoor by ES Tactical
SilencerCo Omega suppressor
1x Lapua brass
FGMM small rifle primers
I was just using my 131 Blackjack load, so 41.2 gains of Reloder 16

This isn't a comprehensive review, since these are the first 20 rounds fired with these bullets. MV was a little slower than I'd hoped, but not terrible at 2872 with ES of 10 and SD of 3.7, but only over 10 rounds. I'll probably bump the charge up to 41.5 to see if 2900 fps is possible, which I'm fairly certain can be done safely.

I could only get out to 613 yards today, but initial reviews are positive. Bullets were extremely consistent, which we all expect from Berger. I pulled 20 random bullets and weights were consistently in the 134.9 to 135.1 range. 15 came in exactly at 135, 4 at 134.9, and one at 135.1. I needed 3.1 mils of elevation to get to 613 and the published 0.334 G7 seems spot on. I won't have the chance to take these out to 1000+ until next week, so I'll report back when I do.

Edit: slight correction. Lapua brass was 1x fired, not 2x

 

[abn31c]

I haven't seen a whole lot of reviews for the new Berger 25 caliber 135s, but I picked up a couple thousand to try out.

Specs are:
Accuracy International AXSA
26" K&P barrel 1:7 chambered in 25 Creedmoor by ES Tactical
SilencerCo Omega suppressor
2x Lapua brass
FGMM small rifle primers
I was just using my 131 Blackjack load, so 41.2 gains of Reloder 16

This isn't a comprehensive review, since these are the first 20 rounds fired with these bullets. MV was a little slower than I'd hoped, but not terrible at 2872 with ES of 10 and SD of 3.7, but only over 10 rounds. I'll probably bump the charge up to 41.5 to see if 2900 fps is possible, which I'm fairly certain can be done safely.

I could only get out to 613 yards today, but initial reviews are positive. Bullets were extremely consistent, which we all expect from Berger. I pulled 20 random bullets and weights were consistently in the 134.9 to 135.1 range. 15 came in exactly at 135, 4 at 134.9, and one at 135.1. I needed 3.1 mils of elevation to get to 613 and the published 0.334 G7 seems spot on. I won't have the chance to take these out to 1000+ until next week, so I'll report back when I do.

Good news.
What freebore do you have, or is it a standard blackjack reamer?
I too picked up 2k of these and a blank for my atx that I hope to have before I die.....

 

[canezach]

Good news.
What freebore do you have, or is it a standard blackjack reamer?
I too picked up 2k of these and a blank for my atx that I hope to have before I die.....

I'm fairly certain it was just a standard Blackjack reamer. I've had this barrel since the 131s were released, and I don't think anyone else was making reamers yet

 

[abn31c]

I'm fairly certain it was just a standard Blackjack reamer. I've had this barrel since the 131s were released, and I don't think anyone else was making reamers yet

Cool, thank you.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Got 1k of these. The blackjack Ace shot amazing at this past weekend's match. Hope these bergers shoot as well or better.

 

[canezach]

Got 1k of these. The blackjack Ace shot amazing at this past weekend's match. Hope these bergers shoot as well or better.

I'm taking them out to 1600+ on Friday. Will report back after the range trip

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I'm taking them out to 1600+ on Friday. Will report back after the range trip

How are they grouping for you?

 

[canezach]

How are they grouping for you?

Pretty well, considering I did no load dev or seating depth testing, but I only shot two 5 round groups at 100 yards to get chrono data. Worst was probably a little larger than half inch, second group was a little better. I'll see if I have the target still, but the worst five rounds formed a cloverleaf with five touching, but distinct bullet holes. The better group was just a bit tighter

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Well, decided to pull 3 blackjack Aces and dropped 3 135s over the same 41g of h4350 and didn't move the seater die from the blackjack measurement and this is what it yielded.
This barrel is notoriously slow.

 

[jpcowboy]

I have shot around 50 of the bergers, peterson brass 42.5 h4350 cci450 2890 velocity, the performance is as good as the blackjacks so far.
the first target is 1458 yards 12.8 mils other is 1073 yards.

 

[canezach]

Here are some random measurements of the 135 LRHT:

Bullet OAL ranged from 1.4050" to 1.4080" from a random handful of bullets pulled. I seemed to find most of them were in the 1.4055" to 1.4065" range.

Bullet base to ogive: 0.7450"
Ogive to bullet tip: 0.661"
Boat tail length: 0.1985"
Bearing surface: 0.5465"

And for comparison, here are the numbers for the 131 Blackjack:

Bullet OAL: 1.4330"
Bullet base to ogive: 0.7375"
Ogive to bullet tip: 0.6955"
Boat tail length: 0.1995"
Bearing surface: 0.538"

 

[FuhQ]

I'm still waiting on a couple hundred Blackjack 131 ACE's from LAST DECEMBER... I guess they're just never going to ship them.

Anyone know if they're even still in business?

 

[jpcowboy]

I'm still waiting on a couple hundred Blackjack 131 ACE's from LAST DECEMBER... I guess they're just never going to ship them.

Anyone know if they're even still in business?

I think they are at the mercy of sierra, I'm sure you will eventually get them, but I think the bergers are available.

 

[FuhQ]

I think they are at the mercy of sierra, I'm sure you will eventually get them, but I think the bergers are available.

I've been sitting on a $800 Proof barrel blank for almost a year because of the wait. I like to get all my ducks in a row before committing to something. He told me a month, then it was 2 months, then hopefully the 2nd Q, and now...It's almost been a year. Just a bit frustrating when you want to build a rifle. But, that was before Berger dropped their bullets, so I might go ahead and shoot all the parts over to LRI in Georgia and get them to spin it up, since the Bergers are not only heavier, but more plentiful at the moment. Plus, I shoot more Bergers than anything, anyway. So...

 

[abn31c]

I have a hunch that rl23 will do for the berger what it does for a dtac in my 6cm barrel. I really want an easy load at 2900 fps.
Keep the info coming...my smith is in Tajikistan hunting til November.....

 

[canezach]

I haven't tried RL23 in a Creedmoor, but it's what I use in my 25 PRC and it's performed really well for me. 3140 fps out of a 26" Desert Tech barrel

 

[abn31c]

I haven't tried RL23 in a Creedmoor, but it's what I use in my 25 PRC and it's performed really well for me. 3140 fps out of a 26" Desert Tech barrel

41.6 rl23 pushes a dtac 3080
28 inch Bart 5r.
I ran it to 3300 in testing, ran out of room.....

 

[canezach]

I bumped my load up to 41.5 gains of Reloder 16 and it gave me 2900 fps on the dot. Environmentals 5047', 49° at the start of shooting and warmed up to 54°, 24.7% humidity, 24.85 inHg, DA of 6273

Here's my range from the 1600+ line, which gives me targets at 1080, 1593, 1663, and a max of 1693:

Through the scope at 1080 at around 14x

And the array at 1663 at 12x

The good: Advertised G7 BC of 0.334 is, in my estimation, pretty damn spot on. All the misses I had were due to wind. After going through 60 of these 135s, I don't know if I'm going back to the Blackjacks. Don't get me wrong, the Blackjack are incredible bullets and we all owe them a huge amount of thanks for sticking their necks out to make high BC quarter bore bullets a reality. The downside is, as everyone knows, they're at the mercy of Sierra, so if Sierra is too busy making their own line of bullets to get to the 131s, you end up with the waiting game we see right now, where guys have been waiting months for more 131s. I'm pretty well stocked on 131s and I've picked up enough of the 135s to go through a few barrels, but I would guess the 135s will be easier to come by, simply because they're an actual Berger product.

The bad: If you've ever shot at a hillside with draws and runs in early morning hours, with a variable speed wind coming from anywhere from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock, at 1600+ years, you know my frustration. Impacts at 1080 were plentiful and dare I say easy. But 1600+? Ugh... Hold 2 mils of wind on your first shot? Not enough and watch the bullet sail 0.3 mils to the right. OK, I'll hold hold 2.3 to 2.4. Nope, now it's way too much and I actually needed 1.6 mils on that shot. And targets in the draw? Forget about it! Wind moves up the draw, swirls around the bowl, so you do the same game of not enough wind held and too much wind held. The 1080 targets are at the base of the hill, where the wind is fairly constant. Anything up on the hillside? You're playing a guessing game. I took about 20 shots between 1593 and 1693. I may have hit 5. Such is this game we play, right?

 

[abn31c]

Good stuff CZ, where in colo?

 

[canezach]

Good stuff CZ, where in colo?

This was Canon City

 

[abn31c]

This was Canon City

Lol, I'm in NE Colo, I feel yer wind pain.....

 

[canezach]

Lol, I'm in NE Colo, I feel yer wind pain.....

Lol you know exactly what I'm talking about. Morning sun heats the hillside, you get random updrafts that have a mind of their own, and a wind that changes direction and intensity every 200 yards or so lol

 

[Supersubes]

Ive shot a few of the LRHT’s now. They seem to hang right in there. I run the 131’s at 2915 with 41.2 gr H4350. That load produces a little too much pressure with the 135 in my gun. I backed it down to 40.5, which goes 2860. So far so good though, easy button alternative to the 131.

Dot is the point of aim, and no sight setting changes for any of the loads 538 yds

135 LRHT at 2860

131 XL, the blems they were selling a while back. Longer in the bearing surface. 2925 fps

Regular 131 at 2915

 

[Schw15]

I bumped my load up to 41.5 gains of Reloder 16 and it gave me 2900 fps on the dot. Environmentals 5047', 49° at the start of shooting and warmed up to 54°, 24.7% humidity, 24.85 inHg, DA of 6273

Here's my range from the 1600+ line, which gives me targets at 1080, 1593, 1663, and a max of 1693:
View attachment 7721520

Through the scope at 1080 at around 14x


View attachment 7721522

And the array at 1663 at 12x
View attachment 7721524

The good: Advertised G7 BC of 0.334 is, in my estimation, pretty damn spot on. All the misses I had were due to wind. After going through 60 of these 135s, I don't know if I'm going back to the Blackjacks. Don't get me wrong, the Blackjack are incredible bullets and we all owe them a huge amount of thanks for sticking their necks out to make high BC quarter bore bullets a reality. The downside is, as everyone knows, they're at the mercy of Sierra, so if Sierra is too busy making their own line of bullets to get to the 131s, you end up with the waiting game we see right now, where guys have been waiting months for more 131s. I'm pretty well stocked on 131s and I've picked up enough of the 135s to go through a few barrels, but I would guess the 135s will be easier to come by, simply because they're an actual Berger product.

The bad: If you've ever shot at a hillside with draws and runs in early morning hours, with a variable speed wind coming from anywhere from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock, at 1600+ years, you know my frustration. Impacts at 1080 were plentiful and dare I say easy. But 1600+? Ugh... Hold 2 mils of wind on your first shot? Not enough and watch the bullet sail 0.3 mils to the right. OK, I'll hold hold 2.3 to 2.4. Nope, now it's way too much and I actually needed 1.6 mils on that shot. And targets in the draw? Forget about it! Wind moves up the draw, swirls around the bowl, so you do the same game of not enough wind held and too much wind held. The 1080 targets are at the base of the hill, where the wind is fairly constant. Anything up on the hillside? You're playing a guessing game. I took about 20 shots between 1593 and 1693. I may have hit 5. Such is this game we play, right?

Very tough range to shoot at with the switching wind and draws. Then gusts come out of no where. The swirls suck up there specially when testing loads.

 

[canezach]

Very tough range to shoot at with the switching wind and draws. Then gusts come out of no where. The swirls suck up there specially when testing loads.

You know what I'm talking about! The targets at 1080 were nearly unmissable, but they aren't tucked away on the hillside. Like you said, those winds switch at the worst times and the gusts on the hillside come out of nowhere. It could be dead calm at the shooter, but they're swirling in those draws

 

[Schw15]

You know what I'm talking about! The targets at 1080 were nearly unmissable, but they aren't tucked away on the hillside. Like you said, those winds switch at the worst times and the gusts on the hillside come out of nowhere. It could be dead calm at the shooter, but they're swirling in those draws

Yeah can measure the wind down low and heck flags grass ect nothing and have to hold for 10 to 15 mph wind. Very interesting place to shoot. More people need to experience it haha

 

[abn31c]

You know what I'm talking about! The targets at 1080 were nearly unmissable, but they aren't tucked away on the hillside. Like you said, those winds switch at the worst times and the gusts on the hillside come out of nowhere. It could be dead calm at the shooter, but they're swirling in those draws

Lol, when chasing elk or sheep in the high country, I use a fuzzy product called "floaties".
Like a fluorescent fuzzy stuff. You can let one go and follow in yer bino's for a very long ways. The first time I saw all the ups and downs and turns on a mountainside I was amazed. It explained alot.

 

[lancetkenyon]

They work on game too.
I shot my pronghorn @ 875 with my 25SST pushing the 135 at a leisurely 3127fps.

Had a buddy that I worked up his load with a 22" 25SST, pushing the 135 @ 3055fps. He helped a mobility impaired hunter shoot a cool bull elk yesterday at 348 (I think he said).

 

[XTREM HTR16]

They work on game too.
I shot my pronghorn @ 875 with my 25SST pushing the 135 at a leisurely 3127fps.
View attachment 7722208
Had a buddy that I worked up his load with a 22" 25SST, pushing the 135 @ 3055fps. He helped a mobility impaired hunter shoot a cool bull elk yesterday at 348 (I think he said).
View attachment 7722212

Nice! I see you helped him into a TT also….

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Any more reviews/load workups on the 135's, or even the 133's? Getting ready to build a 25 something - PRC, SAUM or SST) to take to WY next fall for combo Mule deer/antelope hunt (if I get drawn...).

 

[vivdav]

Just finished a 22" Proof carbon lightweight rig with manners stock. Using 135 Berger LR hybrids and 133 Elite hunters using Reloader 16 42.0 gr. and getting 2810 fps getting .35 in groups. Should be good enough for Texas deer and Aoudad and pigs.

 

[Supersubes]

Any more reviews/load workups on the 135's, or even the 133's? Getting ready to build a 25 something - PRC, SAUM or SST) to take to WY next fall for combo Mule deer/antelope hunt (if I get drawn...).

Ive built two 25 PRC’s, one for me and one for a customer. Cool cartridge. I sold mine a while back so it never saw bergers. This newest one only saw 133’s because he’s going to hunt with it. Rl26 and H100 work equally well. Customer gun is still a baby but a .050 jump with either powder at around 3075 fps shot really well to 900. Once the barrel settles down we’ll tweak a little then load up a bunch. The bergers pressure up different than the 131 bj did. Many of us have observed this in the 25 cm’s. For the 25 PRC, hornady 6.5 PRC/147 eld data is good.

Edit: Id recommend just doing a 6.5 PRC. Shoot 120-130 gr bullets at 3200 and call it a day. Ive got some customers that are slaying shit left and right with the 127 barns LRX in the PRC. Both wanted a copper load since they hunt california almost every year, along with several other western states(every year), and that 127 shot so well and just flattens the various species so well, they just shoot it everywhere now.

 

[canezach]

Any more reviews/load workups on the 135's, or even the 133's? Getting ready to build a 25 something - PRC, SAUM or SST) to take to WY next fall for combo Mule deer/antelope hunt (if I get drawn...).

What do you want to know? I run a 25 Creedmoor and a 25 PRC. The PRC was good out to just under 2200 yards

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Ive built two 25 PRC’s, one for me and one for a customer. Cool cartridge. I sold mine a while back so it never saw bergers. This newest one only saw 133’s because he’s going to hunt with it. Rl26 and H100 work equally well. Customer gun is still a baby but a .050 jump with either powder at around 3075 fps shot really well to 900. Once the barrel settles down we’ll tweak a little then load up a bunch. The bergers pressure up different than the 131 bj did. Many of us have observed this in the 25 cm’s. For the 25 PRC, hornady 6.5 PRC/147 eld data is good.

View attachment 7973434
View attachment 7973435
View attachment 7973436


Edit: Id recommend just doing a 6.5 PRC. Shoot 120-130 gr bullets at 3200 and call it a day. Ive got some customers that are slaying shit left and right with the 127 barns LRX in the PRC. Both wanted a copper load since they hunt california almost every year, along with several other western states(every year), and that 127 shot so well and just flattens the various species so well, they just shoot it everywhere now.

Thanks for the info!

 

[XTREM HTR16]

What do you want to know? I run a 25 Creedmoor and a 25 PRC. The PRC was good out to just under 2200 yards

10-4, looking for whatever data I can find and anything that would tip the scales toward creed vs PRC vs SAUM vs SST. I have creed, PRC and SAUM dies and brass but nothing in the SST, so leaning toward one of the first three, but likely the PRC or SAUM.

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks. I have a 257 Roberts and at some point it will need a rebarrel. I currently shoot the 120gr Speer SBT which isn't bad for BC and hunting purposes. Be nice if I could throat the barrel to take more standard bullets and the longer heavyweights too. (What twist do people like for these? 1:8?)

 

[jpcowboy]

Thanks. I have a 257 Roberts and at some point it will need a rebarrel. I currently shoot the 120gr Speer SBT which isn't bad for BC and hunting purposes. Be nice if I could throat the barrel to take more standard bullets and the longer heavyweights too. (What twist do people like for these? 1:8?)

I use a 1-7

 

[Scrumbag]

I use a 1-7

Thanks. Will it shoot 100gr ok still?

 

[jpcowboy]

Thanks. Will it shoot 100gr ok still?

I don't know.

 

[canezach]

10-4, looking for whatever data I can find and anything that would tip the scales toward creed vs PRC vs SAUM vs SST. I have creed, PRC and SAUM dies and brass but nothing in the SST, so leaning toward one of the first three, but likely the PRC or SAUM.

I can't answer about the SAUM or SST, but the velocity difference between my 25CM and PRC is 230 to 250 fps, depending on the bullet. I still have a few thousand 131s which are just a touch faster than the Berger 135s. I use RL16 with the Creed and RL23 in the PRC. I don't recall my exact load but it's in the 50+ grain range to get me 3140 fps. I never considered anything but the PRC because, like you mentioned, I already had dies and brass on hand. If i wasn't set up to load for PRC, I think it would've been between the SAUM and the PRC, but I don't know which I would've gone with since they're pretty close in performance. The other part of the equation is components. I had 16 pounds of RL23, which is great for the PRC, but no H1000, which I've seen a lot of guys use in the SAUM. Of course, RL26 trumps all, but I only have a whopping 4 pounds of it and haven't seen it pop up often, and when it does, it sells out fast.