Interested in mandrel die setup for setting neck tension

[krimet]

OK gents. Here's the scoop. I've been using the Sinclair gen II die body with Sinclair steel mandrels. At the moment, I'm gearing up to reload a new cartridge. My original thought was to just pick up a new mandrel for my existing die body, but then I remembered I've seen a lot of posts that mention K&M and 21st Century. So, I went ahead and looked at those two to see if they had something to offer. At first glance, I would say that I find the 21st Century setup more appealing. It is a familiar design that gives me a die body with a view window and more options on mandrel sizes. The K&M has some features that I also like such as the nice storage case and even more mandrel size options. From what I have read in this forum (and others) both get the job done. So, I think either would work for me. What I don't know is what are the benefits that are gained from K&M's different design. For example, it appears that the press adapter is threaded into the window riser and then the riser is threaded into the press. It seems like that would be handy if you wanted to test a couple different neck tensions on the same cartridge. What about the fact that the mandrel is secured to the press adapter with a bolt? It seems a little less robust than the drop in design of the Sinclair, but maybe I'm missing something. Is anyone actually using that bottom bolt that is supposed to bottom out before the case neck hits the top?
Any information is appreciated.

 

[texascavediver]

OK gents. Here's the scoop. I've been using the Sinclair gen II die body with Sinclair steel mandrels. At the moment, I'm gearing up to reload a new cartridge. My original thought was to just pick up a new mandrel for my existing die body, but then I remembered I've seen a lot of posts that mention K&M and 21st Century. So, I went ahead and looked at those two to see if they had something to offer. At first glance, I would say that I find the 21st Century setup more appealing. It is a familiar design that gives me a die body with a view window and more options on mandrel sizes. The K&M has some features that I also like such as the nice storage case and even more mandrel size options. From what I have read in this forum (and others) both get the job done. So, I think either would work for me. What I don't know is what are the benefits that are gained from K&M's different design. For example, it appears that the press adapter is threaded into the window riser and then the riser is threaded into the press. It seems like that would be handy if you wanted to test a couple different neck tensions on the same cartridge. What about the fact that the mandrel is secured to the press adapter with a bolt? It seems a little less robust than the drop in design of the Sinclair, but maybe I'm missing something. Is anyone actually using that bottom bolt that is supposed to bottom out before the case neck hits the top?
Any information is appreciated.

The 21st Century mandrels will work in the Sinclair gen 2 die body.

 

[krimet]

Yeah. I read that at one point. I actually like the idea of the windowed die body. That's why I would lean towards a new die body.

 

[Sheldon N]

Not only do 21st Century Mandrels fit in the Sinclair Die body, they now offer mandrel sets that include a full range of sizes in 1/2 thou increments.

Expander Mandrels

21st Century Shooting, Reloading products, Reload, reloading ammo, 21st century, twenty first century shooting, shooting, gun arbors, mandrels, reloading, tools for reloading, front rest, f class, bench rest, short handle, arbor press, powder measure, bullet, bullet comparators, die base, shell...

www.xxicsi.com

 

[krimet]

For sure. That's one of the reasons I was already leaning towards the 21st Century setup. Mostly just curious if I'm missing something on the K&M that would push me that direction.

 

[spife7980]

At first glance, I would say that I find the 21st Century setup more appealing. It is a familiar design that gives me a die body with a view window and more options on mandrel sizes.

Yeah. I read that at one point. I actually like the idea of the windowed die body. That's why I would lean towards a new die body.

Sure you arent mixing up 21st century and k&m with the viewing port? The 21st is a solid body unless there is something new thats not on their website or social media.

21st century

K&M

Id skip k&m personally just because its proprietary and stick with sinclair/21st/pma.

 

[krimet]

Check out the video on this link:

Expander Die Body

21st Century Shooting, Reloading products, Reload, reloading ammo, 21st century, twenty first century shooting, shooting, expander die body, gun reloading, tools for reloading, front rest, f class, bench rest, short handle, arbor press, powder measure, bullet, bullet comparators, die base, shell...

www.xxicsi.com

I am assuming they are using their own die body in the video. It looks like the same die body as the picture (with the window pointed away from the camera). I could be wrong though.

 

[spife7980]

Check out the video on this link:

Expander Die Body

21st Century Shooting, Reloading products, Reload, reloading ammo, 21st century, twenty first century shooting, shooting, expander die body, gun reloading, tools for reloading, front rest, f class, bench rest, short handle, arbor press, powder measure, bullet, bullet comparators, die base, shell...

www.xxicsi.com

I am assuming they are using their own die body in the video. It looks like the same die body as the picture (with the window pointed away from the camera). I could be wrong though.

Pretty sure thats only for the video, if you buy it dont expect to have that material removed.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

I guess I wonder what you intend to see in the viewing window. Assuming your not bottoming out when running necks through it a viewing window isn't going to give you much feedback. I'd say you're probably better off upgrading the mandrel to either their TiN mandrels or carbide. I found the SS mandrels would gall unless I used sizing lubricant. I prefer to use dry lube on my necks so switched to Carbide and the TiN mandrels.

 

[Sheldon N]

Yeah, I prefer the carbide/TiN mandrels as well

 

[krimet]

Pretty sure thats only for the video, if you buy it dont expect to have that material removed.

Shot them a message to confirm whether or not it's there. Will provide feedback when I get a response.

 

[krimet]

I guess I wonder what you intend to see in the viewing window. Assuming your not bottoming out when running necks through it a viewing window isn't going to give you much feedback. I'd say you're probably better off upgrading the mandrel to either their TiN mandrels or carbide. I found the SS mandrels would gall unless I used sizing lubricant. I prefer to use dry lube on my necks so switched to Carbide and the TiN mandrels.

I thought it was handy to have that visual feedback. Re: Carbide/TiN - I intend to upgrade the mandrel material as part of this. Which made me notice something else. Anyone know the material of the 21st century mandrels that are sold in 0.0005" increments? It doesn't specify.

 

[spife7980]

I thought it was handy to have that visual feedback. Re: Carbide/TiN - I intend to upgrade the mandrel material as part of this. Which made me notice something else. Anyone know the material of the 21st century mandrels that are sold in 0.0005" increments? It doesn't specify.

Stainless

 

[krimet]

Stainless

Well... Damn...

 

[spife7980]

I always run the mandrel with lube in the neck still after sizing so material makes zero difference to me. Even my TiN feel better when lubed. It would be more work to mandrel them not lubed IME. So that wouldnt be a deal breaker to me.

 

[krimet]

Same. Not a deal breaker. Honestly, I haven't had any problems with my existing SS mandrels. Was just hoping I could upgrade to something like carbide along the way.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

You could always break out your die grinder and cut a window.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I also assumed their die had a window when I saw the video.

Ordered two dies and neither has a window

 

[krimet]

I also assumed their die had a window when I saw the video.

Ordered two dies and neither has a window

Good to know. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any K&M advocates.

 

[Jabot]

Good to know. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any K&M advocates.

I use the k&m with the adapter with a window it works good u can see how far the case goes up the mandrel. Not saying there better never used the others mentioned but they work I had k&m custom grind all my mandrels to the neck tension I wanted

 

[SmithM21]

It appears that everyone posting in here is a veteran of using a mandrel die.

I would like know do you do a case body resizing die with a shoulder bump back or use a FL sizing die with the expander ball removed before using the mandrel die?

 

[spife7980]

If you body size only will will still need to neck size to make the neck small enough that the mandrel doesn’t slide right through it freely.

 

[AllenOne1]

It appears that everyone posting in here is a veteran of using a mandrel die.

I would like know do you do a case body resizing die with a shoulder bump back or use a FL sizing die with the expander ball removed before using the mandrel die?

I may be doing it all wrong but I size with a bushing die to just a bit under my desired finished size and then finish it with a mandrel die. I don't like pushing the metal too much with the mandrel I just want to push any inconsistencies to the outside of the case.

 

[SmokyJoe]

I use the 21st century die and mandrels. There is no window. To make sure I don’t contact the top of the case with the die I put a stack of 4mmx2mm disc magnets on the Co-Ax press next to the shell holder. This gets full mandrelification and stops the case neck just below the body of the die. Use more or fewer magnets for different height cases.

 

[spife7980]

I use the 21st century die and mandrels. There is no window. To make sure I don’t contact the top of the case with the die I put a stack of 4mmx2mm disc magnets on the Co-Ax press next to the shell holder. This gets full mandrelification and stops the case neck just below the body of the die. Use more or fewer magnets for different height cases.

If you take the top of the expander die body off and remove the mandrel you can raise a case up into it with the press and see exactly where the end of the case neck is in relation to the lip that holds the mandrel body. It’s easy to adjust perfectly.

 

[SmokyJoe]

If you take the top of the expander die body off and remove the mandrel you can raise a case up into it with the press and see exactly where the end of the case neck is in relation to the lip that holds the mandrel body. It’s easy to adjust perfectly.

Yes. That is true. WTS (7) 4mm x 2mm disc magnets. One is slightly dented on top, but otherwise perfectly superfluous.