Interesting… and raises ethical questions!!

[sirhrmechanic]

From Wikipedia because the news sources are sketchy:

“In April 2025, it was announced that Colossal Biosciences used cloning and gene-editing to birth three genetically modified wolf pups, six-month-old males Romulus and Remus and two-month-old female Khaleesi. In-house scientists at Colossal analyzed the dire wolf genome, extracted from two ancient samples – a 13,000-year-old tooth and a 72,000-year-old ear bone. After comparing the genomes of gray wolves and dire wolves to identify the genetic differences responsible for the dire wolf’s distinctive features, Colossal made edits to the genetic code of the gray wolf to replicate those traits. Domestic dogs were used as surrogate mothers for the pups.[115][116][117] Colossal claims that these minor genetic modifications effectively revive dire wolves as a species, though "no ancient dire wolf DNA was actually spliced into the gray wolf's genome".[115]
Overall, the work was less invasive than the typical cloning process. EPC cells were first isolated from gray wolf blood samples before scientists rewrote 14 key genes in the cell’s nucleus to express 20 traits claimed to represent the dire wolf phenotype. Colossal scientists produced 45 engineered ova, which developed into embryos and inserted into the wombs of two surrogate hound mixes. One embryo in each surrogate mother took hold, and Romulus and Remus were born in October 2024 after 65 days of gestation. The scheduled cesarean section procedure was repeated with a third surrogate, who birthed Khaleesi.“

Dire wolf - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The gist is that an extinct species of wolf has been brought back… sort of. The Dire Wolf died out about 10,000 years ago.

Biogenetics firm has edited Gray Wolf DNA to supposedly match it to the Dire wolf and three pups have been born.

Jurassic Park stuff right here.

The science is interesting. But the ethical questions… well, read (don’t watch) Jurassic Park and realize that it’s also an ethical Pandora’s box.

Is this a great thing? We could bring back the passenger pigeon… the Mammoth and the sabertooth tiger! Even the Moa… for those who can’t figure out mils.

But should we? Do we need to replace the things we killed off before we were so enlightened and hunted them to extinction? Or did nature select them out for reasons other than Ug and Zog inventing the atlatl…

When do we start with the genetically edited human babies? Designer blonde blue-eyed Einstein’s…. Replicants with excellent “Tears in the rain” monologues? Or grown as sex slaves (because sex and porn are always the killer app/driver for new technology… really)

Personally, I’d love to adopt a sabertooth tiger! Can we order them soon?

No answers… just more questions than I can even think up. Just the sort of thing for the Pit to examine in our normal, rational and generally hilarious way.

Carry on!!!

Sirhr

 

[375fan]

Well, it's scientist playing god and not thinking about the unintended consequences of their actions. Ethics are not in play or have been discussed for these situations.
With that being said, I'm all for bringing back some saber tooth tigers and mammoths

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Bring this one back!!!

Sirhr

 

[johnnycat]

There was a reason those species died off...and I doubt man had a lot to do with it. So I say leave them be in the fossil record.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. All you have to do is look on social media for about 30 seconds and you see plenty of evidence for that.

 

[Mudburner]

I think the original gangster method was to splice fallen angel genetics with human genetics? The result (as recorded in the Bible) was gigantic humans who were apparently horribly wicked and violent. Thus the idea of the Nephilim.

Interesting concept. Buffalo Bill, in his memoir tells of an event in the 1870's when he was scouting with the Army in the Niobrara country of Nebraska and a Pawnee brought him a human femur leg bone that was way too big for modern man. The Pawnee said it was from an old mound/grave or something and belonged to a race of REALLY bad guys who could run alongside a modern bison, catch it and rip off a leg.

Brought it to the Army surgeon who said the guy would have had to be about nine or ten feet tall. Genetic modification seems to be a thing. Supposedly so spirits can have physical bodies? Without which, they are "naked" and with which, they can physically impose their evil will in the physical world? I dunno.

 

[Fx51LP308]

There was a reason those species died off...and I doubt man had a lot to do with it. So I say leave them be in the fossil record.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. All you have to do is look on social media for about 30 seconds and you see plenty of evidence for that.

Yeah, my question is, "is this a prelude for re-birthing humans?" Especially *bad* humans like Hitler, Mussolini, Idi Amin, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Redmanss]

Something else to shoot? Cool.

 

[ironpony52]

Honestly though, man screws up everything he touches. Why will this end any different ? Let's save this species.....oops we killed of that one. Hey let's reintroduce this species........oops look they are killing off all of that species.
We are doomed by our own hands.

 

[MK20]

Bring this one back!!!

View attachment 8659525

Sirhr

The problem is everyone wants to bring back all these things and don't think about the fact that they eat tasty animals.

Idaho has already cratered its elk population by bring wolves back. We don't need some cheetah too.

I can assure you the mountain lions already kill enough elk and deer.

 

[oneshot86]

I think these scientists should be hunted down and hung.
Just like Fauchi.

 

[Atomic_Lobster]

This will turn out to be another "Hold my Beer and watch this"

 

[Laser1]

On last season of Skinwalker Ranch, they found a rotting carcass in a creek. They took it for evaluation and were told it was a young Dire Wolf. This was in Utah, so maybe they truly aren't extinct. The truth will come out....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The problem is everyone wants to bring back all these things and don't think about the fact that they eat tasty animals.

Idaho has already cratered its elk population by bring wolves back. We don't need some cheetah too.

I can assure you the mountain lions already kill enough elk and deer.

Sorry... SH really does need a Sarcasm font! I'd only want one as a pet!

I am thinking we don't need to bring ANY of them back.

The ONLY argument I might make is for some species destroyed (or almost destroyed) by modern human activity. Market hunting, habitat destruction, etc. This 'might' be a way to put things back ahead of the tipping point. Or restore things like passenger pigeons. Maybe.

There is a great case to be made for breeding and saving Ocelots, for example. A really cool small American cat that has been devastated.

That said.... mankind is part of mother nature. And we are selecting/have selected species out of the future of the planet. That is still nature at week. Whether it's done by a meteor or a bulldozer or a punt gun. Someday it will be our turn. Really. Nothing we can do will change that. We will evolve into something else or get wiped out by something else.

But the idea of re-growing a hyper-predator because you can... is not a good idea. Noone is asking 'Should we.' They just say "Can We?" And with that comes big stock values and bonuses for scientists who see this as a path forward to a shiny future.

Remember Brave New World? The Chrysalids? Fahrenheit 451? 1984? Blade Runner (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep??).

They were warnings, not recipie books.

The debate on this SHOULD be interesting. And it should be taking place in labs, universities and boardrooms. Not just in the Bear Pit. But we have as much a right to debate it as anyone. Besides, I trust you guys more than some egghead with a test tube rack trying to clone a Petrosaur to release into the air or a new plesiosaur to unleash into Lake Michigan.... Those geeks will kill us all....

Sirhr

 

[Fx51LP308]

Story was just featured on Newsmax, this morning.
Hmmmmmm.

 

[akmike47]

On last season of Skinwalker Ranch, they found a rotting carcass in a creek. They took it for evaluation and were told it was a young Dire Wolf. This was in Utah, so maybe they truly aren't extinct. The truth will come out....

Yeah, skinwalker ranch isn’t faked at all…

 

[matthias]

You are all forgetting one huge aspect of this, humans have an incredible talent for violence. That is why I am not worried about a zombie apocalypse or resurrected direwolf or mammoths. Two weeks of trouble and someone will figure out how to take care of whatever living problem there is and make it dead.

I think its nifty.

 

[KYAggie]

Idaho has already cratered its elk population by bring wolves back. We don't need some cheetah too.

I can assure you the mountain lions already kill enough elk and deer.

Hence the reason I have not returned to hunt elk despite having an Idaho lifetime hunting license. Idaho is missing out on revenue from out of state tag purchases because of their miss management. I can put into the tag draws as a local and if drawn, I pay out of state tag fees, but why? It’s too far a drive for too little elk. I would love to see the stats on out of state hunters 25 years ago vs now. They need to round up the wolves and drop them off in downtown Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and LA……maybe a few in Boise.

 

[The D]

We’re bringing all the old shit back! Can’t wait to go to Siberia on a hunting trip

This Company Is Trying To Bring The Woolly Mammoth And The Dodo Back To Life—A Biologist Explains

Colossal Biosciences is now valued at over $10 billion and is working on ambitious projects to resurrect multiple long extinct species.

www.forbes.com

 

[kthomas]

Sounds like all this is is genetically modified grey wolf made to LOOK like a dire wolf - beyond appearance it's still just a grey wolf, albeit a genetically modified one.

So, not a dire wolf brought back from extinction....

 

[Mike Casselton]

From Wikipedia because the news sources are sketchy:

“In April 2025, it was announced that Colossal Biosciences used cloning and gene-editing to birth three genetically modified wolf pups, six-month-old males Romulus and Remus and two-month-old female Khaleesi. In-house scientists at Colossal analyzed the dire wolf genome, extracted from two ancient samples – a 13,000-year-old tooth and a 72,000-year-old ear bone. After comparing the genomes of gray wolves and dire wolves to identify the genetic differences responsible for the dire wolf’s distinctive features, Colossal made edits to the genetic code of the gray wolf to replicate those traits. Domestic dogs were used as surrogate mothers for the pups.[115][116][117] Colossal claims that these minor genetic modifications effectively revive dire wolves as a species, though "no ancient dire wolf DNA was actually spliced into the gray wolf's genome".[115]
Overall, the work was less invasive than the typical cloning process. EPC cells were first isolated from gray wolf blood samples before scientists rewrote 14 key genes in the cell’s nucleus to express 20 traits claimed to represent the dire wolf phenotype. Colossal scientists produced 45 engineered ova, which developed into embryos and inserted into the wombs of two surrogate hound mixes. One embryo in each surrogate mother took hold, and Romulus and Remus were born in October 2024 after 65 days of gestation. The scheduled cesarean section procedure was repeated with a third surrogate, who birthed Khaleesi.“

Dire wolf - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The gist is that an extinct species of wolf has been brought back… sort of. The Dire Wolf died out about 10,000 years ago.

Biogenetics firm has edited Gray Wolf DNA to supposedly match it to the Dire wolf and three pups have been born.

Jurassic Park stuff right here.

The science is interesting. But the ethical questions… well, read (don’t watch) Jurassic Park and realize that it’s also an ethical Pandora’s box.

Is this a great thing? We could bring back the passenger pigeon… the Mammoth and the sabertooth tiger! Even the Moa… for those who can’t figure out mils.

But should we? Do we need to replace the things we killed off before we were so enlightened and hunted them to extinction? Or did nature select them out for reasons other than Ug and Zog inventing the atlatl…

When do we start with the genetically edited human babies? Designer blonde blue-eyed Einstein’s…. Replicants with excellent “Tears in the rain” monologues? Or grown as sex slaves (because sex and porn are always the killer app/driver for new technology… really)

Personally, I’d love to adopt a sabertooth tiger! Can we order them soon?

No answers… just more questions than I can even think up. Just the sort of thing for the Pit to examine in our normal, rational and generally hilarious way.

Carry on!!!

Sirhr

I'm just gonna say here what I've said before: Genetically altered athletes...

 

[sirhrmechanic]

We’re bringing all the old shit back! Can’t wait to go to Siberia on a hunting trip

This Company Is Trying To Bring The Woolly Mammoth And The Dodo Back To Life—A Biologist Explains

Colossal Biosciences is now valued at over $10 billion and is working on ambitious projects to resurrect multiple long extinct species.

www.forbes.com

Yup... Maybe release them into the Chernobyl exclusion zone! Radioactive mutant Mammoths would be awesome!

Sirhr

 

[Atomic_Lobster]

I wonder how good ribs from a mammoth would be on the BBQ

 

[hlee]

It’s a publicity stunt. Clone “dire wolves” and name the female after a character from Game of Thrones. If they weren’t such vanilla names, the males would have been named John and Rob… But, the nod to Roman mythology gets the job done too. Though, Romulus and Remus were humans raised by wolves, not wolves raised by humans.

Anyway, make dire wolves ==> giant splash ==> media attention ==> investor interest ==> funding for underlying research. This isn’t, likely, a viable path to resurecting extinct species. (These aren’t dire wolves, just grey wolves with some modified genes so that they superficially appear like dire wolves.) Though the approach could, potentially, eventually, be used in the “designer pet” trade. But, you better have a big check book. “Regular” designer pets like an American Bully pup can set you back several thousand dollars.

The real play is funding for gene editing research.

 

[buffalowinter]

They are not Dire wolves. They are modified Grey wolves. Here is what a real Dire wolf would be in size.

 

[diverdon]

Who is paying for this?

If as I suspect, it is somehow the US Taxpayer, then the existence of this is proof that DOGE has not even begun to cut deeply enough.

 

[Fig]

Comments in this thread are un- or misinformed. Instead of passing judgement from what a reporter with an agenda wants to tell you, why don't you listen to it from the guy who founded and is actually running this company and actually doing it?

Honestly, I had some of the same concerns till I listened to this guy, and I'm glad he's running it as opposed to a Chi Com, Corporatist, or anyone else who thinks they're smarter than anyone else. This guy is humble, knows what he does and doesn't know, and seems to be approaching this from the most thoughtful and reasonable approach.

Saying we shouldn't do this is dumb, because if we can do it then someone is going to do it. The question is who, and I have to say that this guy has won me over by listening to not a sound byte, but him having a casual, free ranging conversation for an hour and a half. The reason that Joe Rogan has the most popular show on planet earth is because instead of touching the elephant (Wooly Mammoth) you get to pull back and see the whole fucking thing.

No public money whatsoever, and thoughtful and meaningful discussion of the ethical and moral implications. Rich people throw money at this guy. He is well funded privately.

 

[Mudburner]

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I wonder how good ribs from a mammoth would be on the BBQ

I guess you never saw the opening to the Flintstones cartoon.
You're gonna need a big grill
EDIT:
Oops, should have turned the page.

 

[Laser1]

I believe that the claim of a Dire Wolf carcass was made by someone at the University of Utah after DNA testing and teeth comparison testing when compared with Dire Wolf fossilized remains. Don't know if its true, but the possibility of being still around is possible. Friends up in the Kiamichi mountains in SE Oklahoma say that they have them up there.

 

[hlee]

I believe that the claim of a Dire Wolf carcass was made by someone at the University of Utah after DNA testing and teeth comparison testing when compared with Dire Wolf fossilized remains. Don't know if its true, but the possibility of being still around is possible. Friends up in the Kiamichi mountains in SE Oklahoma say that they have them up there.

Yep, and squach hunters are hot on his trail, and there really is treasure on oak island…

 

[Darryle]

I wonder how good ribs from a mammoth would be on the BBQ

Fred approves

 

[Redmanss]

I wonder how good ribs from a mammoth would be on the BBQ

I’d imagine similar to what young wookie tastes like. A little chewy.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I wonder how good ribs from a mammoth would be on the BBQ

I’m in!!!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

It’s a publicity stunt. Clone “dire wolves” and name the female after a character from Game of Thrones. If they weren’t such vanilla names, the males would have been named John and Rob… But, the nod to Roman mythology gets the job done too. Though, Romulus and Remus were humans raised by wolves, not wolves raised by humans.

Anyway, make dire wolves ==> giant splash ==> media attention ==> investor interest ==> funding for underlying research. This isn’t, likely, a viable path to resurecting extinct species. (These aren’t dire wolves, just grey wolves with some modified genes so that they superficially appear like dire wolves.) Though the approach could, potentially, eventually, be used in the “designer pet” trade. But, you better have a big check book. “Regular” designer pets like an American Bully pup can set you back several thousand dollars.

The real play is funding for gene editing research.

100 percent! And the big play there remains designer pets and designer babies.

And designer viruses. And bacteria.

And weapons.

And stock IPO’s to make a bunch of eggheads millionaires… so they don’t bother to think of the consequences.

Hey I am all for capitalism and scientific advancements. Until it’s time to parachute cats…. (Look it up!)

Sirhr

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Plus 1 for the North American Cheetah or Leopard. Whatever you want to call it. I'd grow hundreds and release them by major cities.

 

[45cal4life]

Seen that in the local news this morning. Can we say Jurassic Park

 

[Fig]

They are not Dire wolves. They are modified Grey wolves. Here is what a real Dire wolf would be in size.
View attachment 8659560

They're Dire Wolves. He said something like they're already as big as Gray Wolves at 4 months old (5' long and 140lbs), and they grow for over twelve months. Not only that, but they had more genetic material than they needed from both the 2,000 and 12,000 year old samples. I'm probably off on the numbers, but this is from memory to listening to the Rogan interview.

Yes, they're kind of modified gray wolves, but gray wolves and dire wolves are 98% identical, so that statement really doesn't mean anything. One of the points in the interview is that there are a ton of different human taxonomies for categorizing animals, and none of them have a whole lot to do with nature. The 12,000 year old specimen was genetically different from the 2,000 year old one. Which one is the "real" dire wolf? Human taxonomies are fixed so we can categorize animals. Nothing is fixed in nature.

 

[hlee]

They're Dire Wolves. He said something like they're already as big as Gray Wolves at 4 months old (5' long and 140lbs), and they grow for over twelve months. Not only that, but they had more genetic material than they needed from both the 2,000 and 12,000 year old samples. I'm probably off on the numbers, but this is from memory to listening to the Rogan interview.

Yes, they're kind of modified gray wolves, but gray wolves and dire wolves are like 98% identical, so that statement really doesn't mean anything. One of the points in the interview is that there are a ton of different human taxonomies for categorizing animals, and none of them have a whole lot to do with nature. The 12,000 year old specimen was genetically different from the 2,000 year old one. Which one is the "real" dire wolf?

Humans and Chimpanzees are 99%+ genetically identical…

 

[Rthur]

Being an elk hunter I have to consider the following.
Imagine what these fuckers could do.


R

 

[Sean the Nailer]

First, the Dire Wolf,
Then, the Were Wolf,

It only follows then, the Dancing With....

Talk about spiraling.....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And is creating an extinct species for the purposes of a publicity stunt ethical or scientifically “the right thing to do.”

Bet that conversation never happened… but the PR firm said, “do it and w’ll make you all rich.”

Because that is how science should be done.

Sirhr

 

[Ric O'shay]

No better way to get into a bar fight than to mention aloud you think any variety of Wolf is kind of cool. Fucking deer hunter are vicious.

 

[hlee]

And is creating an extinct species for the purposes of a publicity stunt ethical or scientifically “the right thing to do.”

Bet that conversation never happened… but the PR firm said, “do it and w’ll make you all rich.”

Because that is how science should be done.

Sirhr

Conceptually, not too different than proof of concepts that show up at SHOT every year…

 

[diggler1833]

I believe that the claim of a Dire Wolf carcass was made by someone at the University of Utah after DNA testing and teeth comparison testing when compared with Dire Wolf fossilized remains. Don't know if its true, but the possibility of being still around is possible. Friends up in the Kiamichi mountains in SE Oklahoma say that they have them up there.

While I am where you are mentioning, I will say that most of the locals here do believe in the existence of wolves still. But this is 'bigfoot country' too...so there's that.

I will say that I have spent thousands of hours at night out in area, killing various things. I have yet to come across a wolf (or hear one), but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. I do have [1] single trail camera photo on my ranch of a "coyote" that would have appeared to be a solid 100lbs. Since it was at 3AM and the photo is black and white, I can't confirm if it was just a big dog of a shepherd/husky origin or not. It just looked exactly like a coyote, but was 3x the size.

We do have a few mountain lions out here, and even a few elk. Chances of running across one are extremely slight though and I've only heard and seen one single elk in the last 7 years.

*****

Haven't watched the podcast above. If people want to privately fund that kind of research, I'm not one to bash them. It isn't for me though. And if someone ever gets the great idea that we need to re-release something like that into the wild...then I have a problem.

 

[diggler1833]

Humans and Chimpanzees are 99%+ genetically identical…

This is the Bear Pit... Chances are that it is even closer than that here.

 

[Fig]

Rogan is an elk hunter and pointed out how stupid the Yellowstone wolves are, and how they're reeking havoc with the ranchers. Ben Lamm agreed, but everything is a tradeoff in the garden, and it's all a garden now.

Honestly, I thought dire wolves were bigger than twice a gray wolf, not 25% bigger. They're heavier and slower than gray wolves, and it may be that there is nothing for them to eat, because they're designed to catch Pleistocene mega fauna, and not the tiny (by comparison) and faster modern ungulates. They honestly don't know, as the DWs aren't old enough to hunt yet, and they're just introducing whole carcass. Appearently the 2,000+ acre preserve where they're being kept is set up like a laboratory, and they are documenting everything.

Seriously, listen to the interview before commenting based of lying media. It is illuminating. They did not approach this like Jurassic Park. They are not making money off their creations. They don't have to. There are more investors and more money than they know what to do with. These aren't the bad guys. The bad guys will try to steal this, but this is inevitable IMO. Exploring and figuring shit out is what we're hard wired to do. It's our only survival characteristic, and it won't be stopped. It's how we go about that which is and should be open to debate.

 

[Darryle]

Plus 1 for the North American Cheetah or Leopard. Whatever you want to call it. I'd grow hundreds and release them by in major cities.

FIFY

 

[diggler1833]

I mean, there is huge money in shit like this, and plenty of dudes lined up to drop $15K+ to sit in a blind 75 yards away and shoot one...

 

[BLEE]

No Dire Wolf DNA was spliced to create these wolves, so they are not Dire Wolves. They are wolves genetically manipulated to have the characteristics, that the geneticists believe Dire wolves had. They are a facsimile of a Dire Wolf, that's all.

 

[hankpac]

Rogan is an elk hunter and pointed out how stupid the Yellowstone wolves are, and how they're reeking havoc with the ranchers. Ben Lamm agreed, but everything is a tradeoff in the garden, and it's all a garden now.

Honestly, I thought dire wolves were bigger than twice a gray wolf, not 25% bigger. They're heavier and slower than gray wolves, and it may be that there is nothing for them to eat, because they're designed to catch Pleistocene mega fauna, and not the tiny (by comparison) and faster modern ungulates. They honestly don't know, as the DWs aren't old enough to hunt yet, and they're just introducing whole carcass. Appearently the 2,000+ acre preserve where they're being kept is set up like a laboratory, and they are documenting everything.

Seriously, listen to the interview before commenting based of lying media. It is illuminating. They did not approach this like Jurassic Park. They are not making money off their creations. They don't have to. There are more investors and more money than they know what to do with. These aren't the bad guys. The bad guys will try to steal this, but this is inevitable IMO. Exploring and figuring shit out is what we're hard wired to do. It's our only survival characteristic, and it won't be stopped. It's how we go about that which is and should be open to debate.

They’ll hunt humans. Period. Slow and taste like tobacco (according to Pacific Islanders, (C 1800’s-1920’s).
In my book, the bad guys are the ones who will say “we need to reinsert them into their natural environment.”
Actually I heartily encourage such idiocy. There is a movement in CA to re-introduce the CA Grizzly, which is extinct, and would be replaced by Alaska Brown Bears. Fine with me, since 1. They will be protected, and 2. Their former range was much of north central California, and even the Bay Area. Plenty of delicious left wings down there.