Night Vision IR and Lasers for NVG

[6172crew!]

I see a few threads over at scout and threads on specific units but I am hoping to get a thread on all civilian IR and lasers for a PVS30 available to civilians today. Pro/Cons and costs of the units. (is the PEQ15 really illegal to own as a civilian?)

I used the anvis6 type googles on active duty aircrew missions, we did have a IR light on the CH46E as well as NV friendly lights on the airframe of the helo. I bought one of the refirb PVS30 units and I also have a SWR radius rangefinders but I am almost certain the IR laser doesn't work like a PEQ unit in that it stays on for pointing out targets. From what I have been reading the units I see available are anywhere from $2500-$350 that will work for illumination, but cant be seen unless you are looking through NVGs and these unit might also have a visible laser. Here in NM you can not use a flashlight or torch to light up a varmint but I think using a laser is ok, and I cant find anything on using IR to light up a target here in this state so I think it is ok to use.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

your post is somewhat confusing...are you inquiring about ir aiming lasers or ir laser illumination and or ir illuminators all together?

you can legally own a peq2, peq 15 etc and the laser illuminator is great on those devices. there are many excellent IR led illuminators at do what you need and to some extent better. a few good illum i won and use are streamlight supertac ir, armasight xl850, t20, t50, luna elir-3(laser illum that works about as well as the peqs once the filter is removed)

the swr radius is not an illumination tool or even an aiming laser tool. the viz laser is intended for you to be able to collimate the laser to your boresight. it is usable obviously for other things but not its intended purpose.

the armasight xl850 is by far the best torch illuminator i have used at long range distances. mostly i run the luna right now just for ease and size. it has excellent performance.

 

[6172crew!]

Sorry, probably need to add some punctuation in my Post.

It looks like the PEQ was made and issued to military for 2 reasons, the laser and the illumination. I assume both are not visible so as to not give off the location of the user? The civilian devises I have seen discussed here like the dbal got me looking at what is available in my price range but I base a lot of my purchases off of what people have to say about them and not reviews at the vendors website but I was unable to find much on the cheaper unit like the OTAL which seem to only do the laser which would need a IR illumination like you mentioned correct?

Are the DBAL-PL and DBAL-I2 lacking in areas because they are sold in one package like a PEQ? Both of these unit look to be in the $670-$800 range but I have never seen one through goggles to know if its better to go with a stand alone illumination like you mentioned and maybe ditch the idea of a IR laser.

Thanks for the input, both of the units you mentioned are reasonable as far as price!

 

[Killswitch Engage]

the peq2a only has ir aiming laser and ir laser illum. the peq-15 has a dual beam aiming laser and Ir laser illum. if you can find one of those units for a good price they are worth snagging up.

as to needing an aiming laser on a weapon platform utilizing a clip on device its not necessary but can be handy for up close shots that pop up if you have your head mounted nods on. I would focus on purchasing a good ir illum whether its led or laser and if you want to add an aiming laser a small unit like the lasermax uni-ir or something of that sort works great for inopportune shots.

the illum on devices like the dbal-i2 suck ass so it defeats the purpose of them totally in my opinion unless you like expensive class 1 lasers..

 

[TheGerman]

PEQ2A and PEQ15 are both legal to own as long as they are legit and not stolen issue items.

Go forth and put up a WTB ad for either and you'll get one. I have no idea why people pay 1500$ for a shit civi version of them when you can get a PEQ2A for less than $1k and a PEQ15 for 2.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Be careful with those Peq 15's. Yes of course you can own them legally but there's not a ton of them out there that are legit and not stolen from the military. Peq-2's are more abundant and do basically the same thing as a 15 but they do not have a visible laser and they are the size of a vcr. You can get on eBay and buy a Peq today but NCIS will probably get there before fed ex does lol

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Right now, the VERY BEST Civilian legal IR laser system is the B.E. Meyers MAWL C1+. https://tnvc.com/shop/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser/
Hands down, NOTHING beats it's IR laser illuminator in a Class 1 laser. Pic below with the PEQ-15 on the left (hi/hi) with the new MAWL C1+ on the right. Tree line 350-400yrds.

There is no reason to own a restricted laser with 99% coming from illegitimate sources. The only legit restricted units were DBAL's from the DOE that mistakenly were sold off to a FFL dealer some years back. MANY lost their jobs over that one.

 

[TheGerman]

lol $2500

 

[Hogrider2000]

for both a visible and Ir laser combination I have been using a Laser Devise CQB L1 set up. I use it here and have used it overseas. It is a laser set up that is co aligned. Site in the visible during the day and the IR is set also. I hunt hogs a bit and do use it now and then. It uses a 123 battery. VERY reliable and I have seen them get handled roughly overseas and hold up well. I do not recall the price but it was unde 1K.

For IR illumination I use several combinations but primarily Surefire set ups.

 

[Rogerthatout]

I did a ton of reading in search of a quality IR to help illuminate my pvs30 on dark nights. I tried the luna optics ELIR-3 ( which someone recomended here who loved it) and sent it right back to optics planet. Its realy weak with those new filters. It went back immediately.
Than I tried the Steiner SPIR and wow was i pleasantly suprised. Made in usa, came with a hardcase, 90 deg. pressure switch, amazing quick detatch, even the screws had stoppers so there is no chance of dropping the miniature washers. I mean this thing is a work of art. It petforms amazingly and its got a profile i can live with ( not bell shaped). I strongly recomend this SPIR if you can afford the $600. Rated to 1000 meters i knew i wouldnt out grow it. I love it, life changer for NV.

 

[deersniper]

You should try a PEQ2a

 

[softcock]

You should try a PEQ2a

-
Agree . . had 3 of them and there out there reasonably priced , & there not really large, they just have the 'longer' peq body style . They have a nice and clean collimation/focus of IR beam with a nice quality lens to . I never really noticed that may dust scratches on the 2a,IR Bean lens like I seen on the 15 when shining .
peq2a does not have a visible Red laser slaved to the IR laser like 15 or 16., but you can live without that . Plus (imho) a powerhouse Laser diode is way overrated anyway . you don't need that much for shooting and hunting, and even on the peq15 for example, keeping the filter cover on over the IR laser keeps the laser light, clean and sharp and the bloom way down . A Good power focusing IR beam is where it's at to work with .
.

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

I want a MAWL pretty bad. Time to thin the herd in the safe.

 

[Rogerthatout]

You should try a PEQ2a


I see that was discontinued?

 

[Rogerthatout]

I want a MAWL pretty bad. Time to thin the herd in the safe.

i see its only available to law enforcement?
I didnt want a visible laser.

 

[deersniper]

You have to buy from a private seller.

 

[Benjamin Farr]

[h=3]Is there a IR laser that is significantly better than the DBAL-I² (about $750) Without spending $2500 on the MAWL-C? [/h]

 

[Darkside-Six]

the peq2a only has ir aiming laser and ir laser illum. the peq-15 has a dual beam aiming laser and Ir laser illum. if you can find one of those units for a good price they are worth snagging up.

as to needing an aiming laser on a weapon platform utilizing a clip on device its not necessary but can be handy for up close shots that pop up if you have your head mounted nods on. I would focus on purchasing a good ir illum whether its led or laser and if you want to add an aiming laser a small unit like the lasermax uni-ir or something of that sort works great for inopportune shots.

the illum on devices like the dbal-i2 suck ass so it defeats the purpose of them totally in my opinion unless you like expensive class 1 lasers..

Have you played with the DBAL A3 at all? I've been considering one of those for the price. Seem to be very comparable to the PEQ 15's. It's that green laser man, I've grown to use to it and my eyes adjust better to it on the quick as opposed to the red.


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[Killswitch Engage]

Have you played with the DBAL A3 at all? I've been considering one of those for the price. Seem to be very comparable to the PEQ 15's. It's that green laser man, I've grown to use to it and my eyes adjust better to it on the quick as opposed to the red.


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full power version?

 

[Darkside-Six]

full power version?

Compared to the ATIPIAL C. Yes I know there are legit Mil ones out there to be found but all the ones I see are $2k and I don't feel like paying that when I have multiple AR's I would like to outfit. I've seen guys do comparisons and some swear by the DBAL and some don't. I know you know you're shit about this type of stuff so that's why I asked.


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[bp7178]

There was a rather long thread on M4C about IR. I think the consensus was the IR illuminator being adjustable for elevation and windage along w spot to flood was a better option over the ATIPAL-C.

While the BE Meyers device is an amazing device, its price point is twice that of a DBAL-A3, which is still about $1,300 retail. It will be intresting to see what the DBAL-A4 will bring, IF it gets released this summer.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

While the BE Meyers device is an amazing device, its price point is twice that of a DBAL-A3, which is still about $1,300 retail. It will be intresting to see what the DBAL-A4 will bring, IF it gets released this summer.

This is where I'm at. I'll be in the market for another laser/illuminator this year. The a3 and mk4 light is a slick setup except the ir illuminator. The d2 illuminator is amazing except for its chunkiness.

 

[YO_Doc]

I've been running the DBAL-A3 for almost 3 years now with a pair of ANVIS-9's (high spec Pinnacle tube build), the DBAL-A3 works well for it's intended use. With just the ANVIS goggles I can see the 0.7 MW LASER clearly out to 800M (in super dark area's of Wyoming and Colorado) The IR illuminator is good to 75 or so M. I also have a INTENS tubed PVS-30 and I can pick up the LASER out to beyond 1200M and the illuminator out to roughly 300M, but this is well beyond the usefulness of the DBAL-A3 illuminator as there are large shadows that have formed in the corona at this point. I have only been using the PVS-30 for almost two months now, it is a great improvement over my ability to target with just goggles. I have learned a lot with the PVS-30, but I still have a fair learning to do with this device. I have not had the chance to use the SPIR, DBAL-D2 or the Luna illuminators.

The illuminator helps when looking into shadows, and this is mostly what I use it for. The illuminator is also useful for spotting scraggly brush or heavy grass near my position when shooting from the prone to reduce my chances of this disturbing the early flight of my shot. The downside to using the illuminator when shooting with an AR based gun, is that after the first few shots the oil and burnt gas plume picks up and scatters every bit of the IR light in a massive halo around me, preventing me from seeing beyond a few feet, until the cloud dissipates, which is normally just a few seconds. This is with a suppressor on the rifles, and it does not happen when the illuminator is off, so it's not a function the goggles or the PVS30 bluming out. Even when shooting coyote's that are under brush I find that I will only use the illuminator to improve my ID of the pest and then turn off the illuminator and send it. I don't have a spare IR illuminator to put on my spotting scope to see if a few feet of added distance from my muzzle would reduce this issue.

The real challenge that I face when shooting much beyond 400M at night is solid ranging of the target to set my drop. When target shooting at night, it is much less of a problem as I can just Mil the target and then figure out my hold or dial the drop, as time is on my side.

In closing TANSTAFL when it comes to shooting with precision in the dark. LASERS and illuminators help, but they also have downsides.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

If I'm using the illuminator on my d2 I'm usually standing and firing at pigs in large groups I generally keep moving forward with every shot. It helps keep the gas cloud behind the illuminator. Doesn't work for every situation.

For long shots with a clip on over flat ground a full power laser based illuminator like the Luna works best for me. The d2 and some other led illuminator said will get there no problem but there is so much spill in front of the target that it obscures it. I can dial the Luna in exactly where, what size and how much illumination I need. I removed the allen adjustment screws for aiming and put thumbscrews on mine. Works well for what it is.

 

[bp7178]

This is where I'm at. I'll be in the market for another laser/illuminator this year. The a3 and mk4 light is a slick setup except the ir illuminator. The d2 illuminator is amazing except for its chunkiness.

It's worth noting the D2 uses a LED illuminator instead of a laser illuminator. If detectable signature is a concern then it's an issue. Obviously the LED gets around the limits imposed on civilian IR lasers, but there is a trade off.

 

[winniedonkey]

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