Does anyone that shoots competitively have any thoughts on this? I’ve never shot a match before or even took my rifle out past 200 yards. I really have no desire to compete against anyone and I think a more relaxed atmosphere where you can learn from more experienced shooters would be really helpful to a lot of new shooters, including myself. I was wondering at local matches if this is even possible, or would it throw off the entire flow of things?
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Is a “Scoring”and “Non Scoring” precision rifle match possible?
- Thread starter Mtf5104
- Start date
It will depend on the match.
The MMPRL (my regional group) will allow new shooters to shoot the match and get advice/wind calls on the clock if desired however the score will not count for points.
I am sure wherever you shoot will be willing to work with you. If you mention where you are located I bet others will chime in with more direct information.
The MMPRL (my regional group) will allow new shooters to shoot the match and get advice/wind calls on the clock if desired however the score will not count for points.
I am sure wherever you shoot will be willing to work with you. If you mention where you are located I bet others will chime in with more direct information.
sharing calls with a shooter on the clock? or after they were done shooting that stage? big difference.
tons of guys/gals shares wind calls when they get off the firing line
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just go shoot. who cares what your score is. you can still learn a ton
every club match I've been to will allow coaching on the clock for first time shooters (some ranges even give a wrist band so we know who is a new shooter).
it's usually only good for your first match. after that - you are a pro, lol.
every club match I've been to will allow coaching on the clock for first time shooters (some ranges even give a wrist band so we know who is a new shooter).
it's usually only good for your first match. after that - you are a pro, lol.
before you do any sort of match, you really should find a range that goes out as far as that match will do and work your way out from near to far, to confirm (or not) your ballistics program's drops at various distances. i would not hit a match, for score or for no score, if you've only gone out to 200. some matches will let you come out friday and get/confirm dope.
but yeah once you've confirmed you, your gun and your ammo can get hits, then sure hit a match. i think once you're entered you will get some sort of score even if zero. i'd just do the match and have them score you and if you come in last then you have lots of practicing to do. of you could just enter under a fake name if you don't want to be seen as last.
find a local match, contact the match director, and see what he can do to help you get ready for a match. if you say where you live, sure someone here will take you under their wing.
but yeah once you've confirmed you, your gun and your ammo can get hits, then sure hit a match. i think once you're entered you will get some sort of score even if zero. i'd just do the match and have them score you and if you come in last then you have lots of practicing to do. of you could just enter under a fake name if you don't want to be seen as last.
find a local match, contact the match director, and see what he can do to help you get ready for a match. if you say where you live, sure someone here will take you under their wing.
find a local 1 day match and contact the MD
go watch or RO
coaching on the clock can be hard. did you miss because of wind or just being unstable
but everyone will be more than helpful in building that position and you'll see 10 guys in your squad all do it too.
everyone wants you to get hits and will be willing to share and help with everything
as long as you have a good velocity and zero you dont really need data. we have ballistic calcs that work pretty darn well
i shot a rifle all year than i never truly doped other than in matches and it does just fine
go watch or RO
coaching on the clock can be hard. did you miss because of wind or just being unstable
but everyone will be more than helpful in building that position and you'll see 10 guys in your squad all do it too.
everyone wants you to get hits and will be willing to share and help with everything
as long as you have a good velocity and zero you dont really need data. we have ballistic calcs that work pretty darn well
i shot a rifle all year than i never truly doped other than in matches and it does just fine
I see your from PA. If anywhere near Kennedale pa. Look up MKM Presision. The local matches are pretty laid back. New shooters are always welcome offered plenty of advise and help. Great place to start just show up tell em what ya got and your new to to it. Guys there will help with the rest.
I see guys asking while shooters are shooting.
Would love to see it go the way of F class. Where it’s taboo (and a DQ) to share wind.
This is just me two cents. New shooters do need to learn somehow. I was helped with wind calls when I started and after each stage guys would talk me through what they saw and what wind hold I should be using in that situation. They sometimes even helped me during my stage. Considering how many pros still yell out their wind call 10th here 10th there to the next person in line. I don’t see the harm in teaching others the sport. If someone joins and gets discouraged due to lack of assistance the sport eventually dies. I play the game like golf, I’m always wanting to beat my previous self, I could care less about my points standing in the match. If a new person needs help im going to be inclined to help. Like I said, just my two cents.
Hey guys, I appreciate all the responses. I’m located in Exton, PA (About an hour west of Philly). Trust me, I don’t have an ego and would be completely surprised if I didn’t place dead last on the scoresheet, as long as I was able to take something away from the match, it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest bit. My only concern was that I know a lot of guys spend a lot of time and effort into precision rifle shooting and I wouldn’t want to feel like a nuisance to some of the more advanced/experienced shoppers come competition day.
I just finished my first season of prs and not once have i been treated as a nuisance. I've only shot one day events. Once a father and his two sons showed up each with their hunting rifles (your traditional blind magazine holding 4). Not a single person on our squad had trouble with handing them rounds to top off their mag when they ran out. not one person had a problem with letting them shoot to get dope after the buzzer went off. every single person was happy to be able to help. they seemed to have had a blast and I was glad to be part of it.
I’ve been kicking around the idea of hosting some matches at my range and have been trying to come up with some ideas to help get new shooters involved. We’ve hosted a couple of matches in the past with one of the local clubs and while we always have a good turnout of club members we don’t get many new shooters. New shooters isn’t really the correct term but new to long range style shooting.
What I have settled on trying at least for the first one is doing a “fun shoot” where we have plenty of targets and different objects to shoot from and just have an informal shoot where everyone just pays a range fee and can shoot as much or as little as they want and possibly get some of the more experienced shooters to put on some impromptu classes to help out the newer people. I’d also set up 2-3 stages to allow a mini match type event so people could get a understanding on how it all goes.
This would then be followed in a couple of weeks by a real one day match.
May work may not but figured it’s worth a try.
What I have settled on trying at least for the first one is doing a “fun shoot” where we have plenty of targets and different objects to shoot from and just have an informal shoot where everyone just pays a range fee and can shoot as much or as little as they want and possibly get some of the more experienced shooters to put on some impromptu classes to help out the newer people. I’d also set up 2-3 stages to allow a mini match type event so people could get a understanding on how it all goes.
This would then be followed in a couple of weeks by a real one day match.
May work may not but figured it’s worth a try.
It’s pretty easy to handle new shooters.
Help them as much as possible. Don’t worry with timing them. Or put them on the clock snd let them keep shooting when time runs out.
The most important part is they have fun and don’t feel like an outsider more so than than they will naturally.
Help them as much as possible. Don’t worry with timing them. Or put them on the clock snd let them keep shooting when time runs out.
The most important part is they have fun and don’t feel like an outsider more so than than they will naturally.
This goes to my Shadow Competitor idea,
Anyone can be a Shadow Competitor, walk in off the street, plan it, the idea is simple
Show up, pay 1/2 Price, your name is not on any shooter list or practiscore, (They can keep a Shadow List for safety) you show up to the stage, tell the RO you are a Shadow, he just runs the clock and gives you a final hit number, that is it...
You can practice, learn, etc, with zero consequences and the match runs the same.
Anyone can be a Shadow Competitor, walk in off the street, plan it, the idea is simple
Show up, pay 1/2 Price, your name is not on any shooter list or practiscore, (They can keep a Shadow List for safety) you show up to the stage, tell the RO you are a Shadow, he just runs the clock and gives you a final hit number, that is it...
You can practice, learn, etc, with zero consequences and the match runs the same.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Go.
If you want to ask for assistance, read the flow of things and ask someone when they don't seem obviously busy. 99% will help you with whatever you want or need.
If by chance you happen to ask someone who is getting ready on deck (but you didn't realize it because you're new), 99% of the time you'll get a pleasant response telling you they'd love to once they're through their turn.
Sounds like a clinic. Worthy effort, low ROI is what I remember from listening to folks who put them on for NRA highpower.
Breakdown of value added steps (IMHO) would be:
1) Acess (firing position array, target array, w/range access)
2) Measurement (Spotting--ranging, hits, misses)
3) Sequencing (Spatial and sequential layout, "problems" to overcome--> general course of fire)
4) Coaching (or "best practice" guidelines for each "problem")
Keep in mind its the "training effect" not the competition/scoring that matters here.
Just my $0.02
If you are attending any sort of match for the first time, make sure you know your dope. I see it time after time. You can have fun with a hunting rifle if you know your dope.
Tell the squad mom this is your first match. Ask shooters what you did wrong/right AFTER you finish the stage. Ask for tips about wind corrections. What are good strategies...etc. Do not ask for a wind hold. I've asked before, but I will not do that anymore. Watch misses (yours and other shooters) down range determine your wind estimate and have a wind correction strategy.
Every match has an opportunity for zeroing your rifle. No matter how sure you are of your dope, confirm anyway. If they have a practice day... even better.
I will say, no athlete is there just for fun. Every athlete wants to win. Same for shooting sports.
Tell the squad mom this is your first match. Ask shooters what you did wrong/right AFTER you finish the stage. Ask for tips about wind corrections. What are good strategies...etc. Do not ask for a wind hold. I've asked before, but I will not do that anymore. Watch misses (yours and other shooters) down range determine your wind estimate and have a wind correction strategy.
Every match has an opportunity for zeroing your rifle. No matter how sure you are of your dope, confirm anyway. If they have a practice day... even better.
I will say, no athlete is there just for fun. Every athlete wants to win. Same for shooting sports.
IMHO the mantra of "self spotting" needs to be recognized for what it is-- an advanced skill.
There are certain pre-requistes technique wise and gear-wise to self-spot reliably.
Think about how much "Research and Development" has gone into self-spotting for PRS style comps...
ie, high IQ optics, heavy guns, light calibers, etc.
For the novice shooter this is a major barrier to overcome.
There are certain pre-requistes technique wise and gear-wise to self-spot reliably.
Think about how much "Research and Development" has gone into self-spotting for PRS style comps...
ie, high IQ optics, heavy guns, light calibers, etc.
For the novice shooter this is a major barrier to overcome.
This is why small/1 day matches should either have a training/coaching day the day before, or the match needs to be more focused on training/teaching rather than a straight up competition.
We are currently taking steps backwards to re-work how this industry is handling things. We as a whole didn’t build a base. We jumped straight to a pro series. Now we have to hit pause button and back up a few steps.
Attend a “club” one day match. You may not get wind calls, but I’d be surprised if one of the dozen guys “on glass” behind you while you shoot doesn’t volunteer corrections.
At the Texas Precision Rifle club matches outside of Navasota, it’s not stated but it’s pretty well practiced that ”sharing is caring.” These are new shooter friendly events snd spotters will give corrections on the clock.
You’ll see guys sharing wind calls at the big one day and 2 day events there too. The difference is that you won’t hear corrections from the spotter or “peanut gallery” while a shooter is on the clock.
At the Texas Precision Rifle club matches outside of Navasota, it’s not stated but it’s pretty well practiced that ”sharing is caring.” These are new shooter friendly events snd spotters will give corrections on the clock.
You’ll see guys sharing wind calls at the big one day and 2 day events there too. The difference is that you won’t hear corrections from the spotter or “peanut gallery” while a shooter is on the clock.
A training/coaching day the day before the match would be great. I’m shooting a .308 and like previously said, have never taken past 200 yards. Making a wind call in general would be really hard for me to do and especially at far distances. It’d be really nice to have a day like that before the actual competition then maybe the day of the match have something like a shadow competitor the day of the match to ease new shooters into it.
I actually just saw that the Mason Dixon series actually has a new shooters competition in April I believe. I’m definitely going to try to get a slot for that when registration opens up.
Give it a go.
Have fun and enjoy the experience.
It's on you to take on board what you want to learn.
Worst case scenario is that you learn something new.
Have fun and enjoy the experience.
It's on you to take on board what you want to learn.
Worst case scenario is that you learn something new.
Rather then doing scoring and non-scoring, why not just publish the shooter # rather then name for those that don't want their names on the scoreboard? That way the score is still kept and published, it's just a number instead of a name.
So I have seen this in archery. People could shoot Comp and Non Comp. What 90% of people do with it is really great. They come out, they have a great time, then they go home. Then there are the try hards, the people who want to win so badly that they bring someone with that shoot the target first to give them a reference to where they want to be. They tell them the range so they know how they can dial in a bit more. I am all for a non comp division. But I would actually prefer a Amateur, Semi Pro, Pro division that is based on results. Results that nobody really knows how they pull you up. When that leaks out, you'll have sandbaggers that will try and stay down.
