Is it worth it to crimp?

Tactical30

Tactical30

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 5, 2009
1,098
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Eastern Ohio
#1
I had just recently got into reloading and the main guns I reload for are my AR's/.223. The first die set I got was the Forester BR die set, then my local reloading shop had a big sale and had a real cheap set of brand new Redding .223 dies so I bought them.

I noticed you could also crimp with them if you wanted to, so I gave it a try. Usually I dont crimp any AR/.223 bullets I load eventho every manual I read said to do so. I have had no problem in <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> crimping any of my rounds.

But anyhow I gave it a try. The redding die says to seat the bullet were you want it then run them seating stem all the way out and then run the press ram all the way up. Then run the die all the way down touching the shellholder.
Well I tried this and it put a little to much of a crimp as I wanted so I ran the die out a little and its just crimping enough to tighten the top of the neck in to the bullet. If I am going to crimp this is the way I would do it.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Am I wasting my time in crimping all these rounds?</span>
 
#2
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just crimping enough to tighten the top of the neck in to the bullet. If I am going to crimp this is the way I would do it.
</div></div>
So would I

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Am I wasting my time in crimping all these rounds? </div></div>
Not if you're running an autoloader.
 
#3
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

i have a Dillon 650, the last stage is the crimp, i use a "Lee Factory Crimp Die", i highly recommend a separate crimping die for any .223/5.56mm auto loader, the seating die that also crimps pushes the bullet into the case a bit deeper to get a "rolled" crimp, for me that is unsatisfactory.
 
#4
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

I'd say you're doing no real harm, but it may be unnecessary.

Load a batch without any delibrate crimp.

Load a few mags to full capacity. Fire them all but the last one in each mag. Allow it to chamber, then extract it.

Measure OAL. If it's not the same as when you loaded it, you need a crimp.

Greg
 
#5
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

"Am I wasting my time in crimping all these rounds?"

Only you can answer that. Are your crimped rounds more or less accurate than the uncrimped rounds? Is the velocity more or less consistant?
 
#8
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you DON"T crimp for an gasser ...you court disaster


i've seen it happen </div></div>

What exactly did you see happen with uncrimped rounds b-tripper?
 
#10
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you DON"T crimp for an gasser ...you court disaster


i've seen it happen </div></div>

What exactly did you see happen with uncrimped rounds b-tripper? </div></div>

I believe it was a very nice JP rifle that exploded when a round went off out of battery. aka in the Mag/Mag well.
Used to be a picture of it floating around on here years ago.
This topic is usually beating a dead horse but I'll throw my 2 cents in too.

I have 2 XL650s and i Run a Lee factory crimp die on the last station of anything i load. Granted everything I run or ran feeds from a mag.
I crimp all of my gas gun rounds.
I crimped all my .308 rounds in my bolt gun before it got retired.
I currently crimp all my .260 rounds that i feed through and AICS Mag.
I'm not talking about a huge crimp in the brass and bullet, but it is a crimp.

Does it affect my accuracy? No
Does it give you some piece of mind that the bullets not going to move in the case untill the primer is striked? Yes
 
#11
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

I was a confirmed addict of the Lee FCD. I found it was not needed for my AR, my M1A, or my Garand.

I found this out by using the technique/test I mention above.

Basically, if the last round in the magazine can survive all the fore/aft slamming that recoil subjects it to, plus the feeding and chambering process, without having its seating length altered; then he crimp isn't going to do anything more useful than not crimping would achieve.

I also found that the crimp made it seriously more difficult to disassemble rounds with an impact puller. Plastic bullet tips usually failed to survive the process intact.

When I pass on info, I say so. But I am also a bit of a pessimist, and a bit of a doubter; and where it's practical, I try to devise methods of determining whether a particular handloading step has demonstrable merit.

Greg
 
#12
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 4Rail_Gunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you DON"T crimp for an gasser ...you court disaster


i've seen it happen </div></div>

What exactly did you see happen with uncrimped rounds b-tripper? </div></div>

I believe it was a very nice JP rifle that exploded when a round went off out of battery. aka in the Mag/Mag well.
Used to be a picture of it floating around on here years ago.
This topic is usually beating a dead horse but I'll throw my 2 cents in too.

I have 2 XL650s and i Run a Lee factory crimp die on the last station of anything i load. Granted everything I run or ran feeds from a mag.
I crimp all of my gas gun rounds.
I crimped all my .308 rounds in my bolt gun before it got retired.
I currently crimp all my .260 rounds that i feed through and AICS Mag.
I'm not talking about a huge crimp in the brass and bullet, but it is a crimp.

Does it affect my accuracy? No
Does it give you some piece of mind that the bullets not going to move in the case untill the primer is striked? Yes</div></div>






yes the JP turned to scrap metal in an instant....the 20 round magazine assumed the shape of a beer can....and the slab side of the mag well flew 25 feet to an adjacent prone shooter and bitch slapped his booted foot......yes the shooter was wearing glasses if i remember....small cut on his face me thinks also.....


not much usable was left really.............
 
#13
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

Jesus, that is horrific. I haven't crimped rifle rounds in a while. I was instructed way back to chill on the crimp with match loads because the crimp may deform a match bullet. Therefore, I only crimped rifle bullets with cannulures. But after listening to you guys, I may have to throw a bunch of loaded rounds back in the press for crimping.

One thing though. Was the explosion undoubtedly caused by the lack of crimping, or could it have just as easily been some other variable?

Thanks for the info 4rail and b-trip.
 
#16
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

Maybe. But my conviction favors mishandling as a key issue in slamfires.

I wish I could base my comments upon personal observation, but what I do base it upon is the training I received on the M14 and Garand in the Corps, and that was their explanation, with zero reference to primers. And yes, I recognize that milspec ammo has special primers.

Their explanation was based on single loading/feeding behavior which bypassed the design features of the rifles.

They are made to be fed from the magazine/clip. Period.

When the operator hand feeds a round, it's supposed to be placed into the magazine, and the bolt be allowed to strip the round out and feed it into the chamber in the designed manner. This process incorporates an intentional degree of drag on the bolt that prevents it from accelerating to a velocity where firing pin inertia can exceed the safe level while chambering a cartridge.

Inserting a round directly into a chamber and releasing the bolt to slam home atop an empty magazine bypasses this intentional drag and introduces dangerous bolt velocities and firing pin inertia into the equation. Slamfires are among the negative potential consequences of this practice.

But seriously, this slamfire issue is not part of the original topic. Some cartridges will compress in the magazine/feeding process. This indicates insufficient bullet retention. Crimping is one of several valid means to address this problem. I agree that problems like this need solutions. I have tried to suggest a way to identify the problem's factual existence.

Greg
 
#17
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you DON"T crimp for an gasser ...you court disaster


i've seen it happen </div></div>

So that means you should not shoot FCGM ammo in a gas gun because it is uncrimped??? Hornady match too?
 
#18
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So that means you should not shoot FCGM ammo in a gas gun because it is uncrimped??? Hornady match too?</div></div>

What is FCGM? Are you referring to Fed Gold Medal Match? I apologize, I am not good with acronyms. I was wondering the same thing. I am open to all opinions, but I cannot fathom that match ammo would be ominous in an M1A National Match rifle. Like I said above, I was instructed years ago that crimping deformed match bullets. In inspecting some of my match rounds that I crimped before I got this advice, I noticed that the bullets were indeed deformed a bit. However, I cannot attest that this affected the accuracy, but then again I wasn't shooting at very long range.

Chime in here guys, I am all ears to any advice.
 
#19
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

I think that if you prep your brass so the necks are free of carbon/lube and have adequate tension on the bullet, crimping is unnecessary.

But if you leave the neck dirty and try to hold the bullet in place with crimp, you'll eventually have an unpleasant surprise.
 
#20
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

Disassembled Match LFC'd bullets had a groove/ring indentation. In itself, that's not especially bad. However, some of them wouldn't roll smoothly, indicating some slight bend. That's not so hot.

Canellures are <span style="font-style: italic">an</span> answer to this issue.

Greg
 
#21
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

wow! i have heard as long as it is not a repeater gun there is no reason for a crimp. but i have also hear that if you dont crimp you loose alot of pressure in the round. and it will not have enough umph to chamber another round. but i am a noob at reloading. so i put a crimp on all my loads just to be safe. just my .02
 
#24
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

One good reason to crimp is the condition of your mags. When the bolt goes back to pick up the next round and pushes it into the chamber, if the mag is worn,or has a slight bent lip, the tip of the bullet may hit the mag, just enough to push the bullet deeper in the case, as inertia overcomes the minor obstruction. Clearly it's time for some new mags, but that should have been done as part of my equipment check. Maybe just slightly, but deeper than you intended. Now that becomes an accuracy or pressure problem; does it not? In an auto, it's an effortless safety step, at least in a progressive, like the Dillon. I just started to use the crimp die as one round of mine did exactly what I discribed. Fortunately, the bolt didn't lock, and that's what made me notice it. Worn mags, or improperly seated mags, will not always lock up tight for proper feeding, in which case the bolt pushes the bullet hard against the bottom of the champer, increasing the chance that the bullet will be pushed deeper into the case mouth.

Anything that can be done to increase the safety margin in reloading, should be accomplished. Heavy/long .223 bullets, seated to mag length already take up more internal space. You don't want that spaced reduced by having the bullet pushed any deeper, by accident.

Just my experience and opinion.
 
#25
Re: Is it worth it to crimp?

Thanks Greg.
As I read your post, I realized that when I do single feed a round, I was doing it wrong. Even if an AR 15 or 10 would not have the problem as an M1A, the safer the technique, the better.

Learn something new and informative, everytime I come on this site. Now if someone will answer this question, I'll be really happy.."Where's the Varget!?!?

Hey! Got promoted to LC. Think I'll have a Promotion Party!
 
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