Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

[MK14 SEI]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ScottsBad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Someone has a prototype stock replacement as well. </div></div>

Vltor

 

[shane45]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Info on the shifting POI is not something I have come across. Any speculation as to cause? Pencil barrel? The way the barrel mounts? Gremlins?

Thanks,
Shane

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

i have no idea at this point, evidently the FN guys don't know the cause either fromn who i've talked to. but its not just a couple guns, its been seen on guns in numerous locations and from vastly diferent serial numbers.

 

[shane45]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Hmmm that makes me want to put the brakes on with my pending 17 purchase! Especially since for me its a casual want, not need.

 

[Gasitman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Joe, I am not saying what you wrote is not so, but I am just lost here. As I said, my brother in law is SF here at Ft. Lewis, and he says the complete opposite of what you are saying. I know the gun is not perfect, but neither is the M4 line, that is why they are still improving on it.

I asked him about the wandering shots, he said of course he has missed his target, everyone has. And to be honest, he did say if he had his way, he would carry the LMT for shear principal of parts and ease of use.

He also said it does not seem that FNH is supplying the military with the proper accessories and parts where most M4 parts are interchangeable. He can just swap out an upper on an lmt with a colt lower if desperation and life and death caused it to be, but not able to do that with the scar.

He also told me to stop posting arguments on the Internet board, nothing I say or do will change peoples minds. Quit wasting my time on this gibberish. LOL

 

[shane45]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

G man, the context with your BIL sounds like he is talking about 5.56 rifles not 7.62's?

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

BigJoe.

Mind posting what you do like, and don't like, about the SCAR platform?

I think the right people are listening, and I'm sure you'll have an important, and necessary, effect on it.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

alright my quick review;


Pro's:
- ergos are good, i do like them. very similar to a M4 type platform enough so that the only real change in muscle memory is the charging handle.
- with the 13.5" barrel on(how i primarily run it) its a pretty handy gun for a 308. the overall size and feel lends itself to be pretty easy to use. DO NOT BUY THE SCAR17 expecting it to feel like a m4 as its a 7.62 gun. i think many people go into buying ar10's and other 7.62 carbines expecting a ar15 type weight. Thus you get all the complaints about the MWS, etc.
- it has been reliable for us. there is something to be said with the reliability nad cleanliness of the system. though mine and a couple of my friens we have ran a few thousands rounds through each and i have yet to really remember a malfunction other then one i had the other day with a stuck round in the chamber (still have yet to figure that out, ended up punching out the casings primer with the next round, and ripping the rim off with the extractor trying to get it out)
- there is a lot of promise with the system and i do believe it could be a very nice battle rifle but it isn't there yet.
-barrel changes are fast, and the gun is very easy to field strip. both nice features. the barrel setup though i view as a negative, more to follow.

CONS:
- trigger, yes its a battle rifle but the trigger is bad even for a standard m4 trigger. the selector is cheap and not that ergonomical. the size and design of it doesn't lend itself to be as easy to use as you would think. using gloves makes it worse. yes there are replacements on the aftermarket in place and coming but i don't have that luxury so i'm commenting on it.
- lenth of the rail is a bit short. it really is hard to fit all the stuff one would like on the rail. i usually run my flashlight infront of my foregrip on my mk18 and cannot do that on this. a rail extension i think would be something i would definately invest in
-i am NOT a fan of the folding stock. it folds with a stern slap, i've had it fold doin basic open terrain movement drills. i ended up swapping it out for a fixed stock. i think with options coming from vltor on a m4 buffer tube adapter that would be a nice solution. or just get the fixed SCAR stock, if you are just shooting on the range and for classes and want that gucci luxury to show your friends more power to ya. i don't like it.
- the wandering POI shift is perplexing to me, and now having us see it and guys on the east coast as well as a few other people doin their own testing, that is a MAJOR turn off. the barrel system in general is a poor design. making the lower rail, gas system, and barrel all one part is easy for take down but i think poor for any hope of a large aftermarket support. mabye that was what they were goin for but doesn't make sense to me. also if you want to swap barrel and have accessories on your bottom rail you have to swap them if you want them on both barrels or buy 2 sets.

sorry for the long post but i think many people are thinking of this as a system they can run as a carbine and long distance gun. I now have a scar17 on its way to me in civilian format to screw around with and will be changing hands a couple times before i even see it, just cuz i got it through trade and figure i'll let a couple friends (industry people) try it out as well.

Joe

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

My experience with the 17 (SCARH) pretty much mirrors Joe's as well it was seen here with some of his "buddies" and they were very disappointed in the POI shifts we noted. At 100 yards we saw a 5" shift, as well it was difficult to pin down issues because the system was just that inconsistent. I know they took the information back and went for answer, further testing and finding flaw, similar to what Joe posted.

I haven't seen or heard of similar issues with the 5.56 but people tend to not look towards accuracy the same with 5.56 systems. Most focus on shots inside 100 yards, usually 50 yards and in, so these errors are masked by a number of issues, lack of distance, alternate positions, movement during, larger targets. So it's not all that surprising, you don't see similar complaints.

it's Gucci, I want to like it, but unfortunately it has too many unresolved problems, at least as far as I am concerned.

 

[Gasitman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">G man, the context with your BIL sounds like he is talking about 5.56 rifles not 7.62's? </div></div>

You are correct, sorry I did not clarify that, and I also did not realize Joe was referring to the 7.62. thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

i have little to no experience with teh 5.56. we dumped that system as it carried no real advantage for the cost over keeping the AR's we already have. and with the change over to the RIS systems on the mk18's and marsoc now using the 14.5" RIS systems i see no replacing those anytime soon.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

I decided to put my NF 5.5-22x56 on my scar just to see what kind of accuracy I could expect.

I am very impressed with this rifle. I consistantly got 1" or better with it. Some were 4 shot one holers.

The best part was how little recoil this weapon has. I replaced my brale with an AAC MITER and expected it to have mroe recoil, but it doesnt.

Ill post pics when my shooting buddy emails them to me, but its one accurate SA.308

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

tell that to the guys who were in vietnam with the first m16's, and see what they say. and i'll tell you now if you issue a weapon system to guys deploying to afghanistan it better hold POI, of all the issues to have wandering POI should not be it.

 

[valleyman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Does this POI shift happen after changing barrels or installing silencer? Does it happen on guns that have not had screws turned by operators in the field? Optic? Lots of variables here.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

valleyman you really think we wouldn't think of all this? especially considering some of the testing that this has happened at a FN rep was present. just saying. it happened on rifles that had the same barrel, with torqued screws.

 

[wgunn]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Keeping my fingers crossed, but I've not seen any issues with my 17S and POI shift. I've only fired about 200 rounds through it so far, but I've found that with Federal Gold Medal 168's it will consistently shoot 1"ish groups using a 4x32 ACOG for glass.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k0lwxHUiTcw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k0lwxHUiTcw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Hopefully the POI shift isn't something that creeps into the equation... either the particular rifle has it or it doesn't. If not, I'll be pretty upset if it goes from 1" 100 yard groups to stringing shots 10" or more.

Aside from the potential for POI shift, the rifle itself is pretty impressive IMHO. To me, it stands out against the traditional pack of MBR's out there.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Well, that shifting POI sure stirred some feelings over at fnforum.net, mine included. Could you please expand on that issue (Joe) since I've only read about it once, and not from a reliable source, and give us some more information to back up your statements? Pics would be great. Thanks!

Here's the thread:
http://fnforum.net/reports-of-poi-shift-t25545.html

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

When does this POI shift occur? During barrel removal and replacing? There is a specified torque and bolt direction to go in when putting the barrel back on. When I got mine, I immediately took the barrel out to swab it out and then put it back in with the seekonk wrench using the direction shown on that breakdown instructional video.

I have not seen any POI shift, but I dont take the barrel out on a regular basis either.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

well if franks lowlight word wasn't good enough (instructor at rifles only, ex marine scout sniper, and tests and evaluates weapons systems on a regular basis).

I'm active SOF, tested it with another member of my platoon. We went and shot with both elcan and votex 1-4x razor. Impacts shifted over the course of a week both shown by POI off scope and irons. Shifts tend to be vertical, not horizontal. I have since moved bases since we ran our own little testing. and only have access to a 25 meter range if you want pics of the gun, i'll snap a couple, lol its a tan scarH. nothing special.

here is one disclaimer which i have posted a couple times. these POI shifts have been on military weapons only. i have not /tested or heard of any on the scar 17 yet just the SCARH which has a diferent barrel at least, i don't know of any other varying specs. Frank saw it on a 16" barrel i saw it on our 13.5"

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

BigJoe let us know how your new 17s shoots in comparison. i would like ot know if you see the same with the 17s. It looks really good with the surefire brake BTW.

I went with the AAC MITER and can honestly say that there is no more felt recoil with the AAC than the factory brake( which is extremely loud and concussive). The AAC MITER was well worth the money for this rifle I promise anyone who is considering one.


Here is my 100 yrd target. first shot flyer at bottom.

 

[GunKnowledge]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William Gunn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've found that with Federal Gold Medal 168's it will consistently shoot 1"ish groups using a 4x32 ACOG for glass.
</div></div>

Really, you use a 4 power ACOG for accuracy testing?

Repeat the test with a quality benchrest scope(I'm thinking Leupold 36x) and 5 groups of 5 at least. If the rifle was capable of much better groups, you could prove that with a much more precise and in depth testing setup.

This is what a quality test should be like:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=66155

Unfortunately his test groups were pretty poor (shooter/wind/etc)

 

[Gasitman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Like I said, for some reason, this is the most hated, most talked about rifle platform in many years. I think the bottom line is, those that love it, love it, and those that hate it, will hate it. Like Ford vs. Chevy. No one is going to win this argument.

 

[Gasitman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William Gunn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've found that with Federal Gold Medal 168's it will consistently shoot 1"ish groups using a 4x32 ACOG for glass.
</div></div>

Really, you use a 4 power ACOG for accuracy testing?

Repeat the test with a quality benchrest scope(I'm thinking Leupold 36x) and 5 groups of 5 at least. If the rifle was capable of much better groups, you could prove that with a much more precise and in depth testing setup.

This is what a quality test should be like:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=66155

Unfortunately his test groups were pretty poor (shooter/wind/etc) </div></div>

Maybe he does not have a few thousand dollars to do your test. Maybe you should go buy the scope and do it yourself since the way you come off is money is not an object.

Looked like a decent video, does guns and ammo even do such a test as you refer. And if he did do your test, you would of said, "OMG who would put a scope like that on a rifle like this, put an acog on it as it was intended to be used with"

Some of you guys do not even realize the crap you say on here. Keyboard Einsteins at its best. I have learned to just laugh at some of the shit on here.

 

[shane45]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

Quality 36X leupold. Thats funny. Thats a joke right?

Back on track. Brought home the 17s today. It is light. Im happy. With Elcan SpecterDR on it it is sub 10 lbs which is what I was after. If it is sub 2 moa it will be acceptable for what I want it for(provided I dont have any of the shift issues some others seem to be reporting). It is less weight than the DSA SA58c it replaced.

 

[henschman]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

I like a lot of things about the rifle... light weight, chrome lined barrel, piston operation, side reciprocating charging handle, ergonomics, and the reported accuracy... but I do not like the short sight radius, and how the handguards are quad rail rather than modular, where you can put rails only when and where you need them. I also don't like how spare parts are only available from FN if you can get them at all, and how no one knows whether this rifle is here to stay, or here today and gone tomorrow, with no source for parts.

I think I may try building a 7.62 AR on a Mega upper/lower and see if it is reliable enough for my purposes. If so, I may stick with that, just because I can have it set up just how I want it, using common parts, and for less money to boot.

 

[-Ace-]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: henschman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like a lot of things about the rifle... light weight, chrome lined barrel, piston operation, side reciprocating charging handle, ergonomics, and the reported accuracy... but I do not like the short sight radius, and how the handguards are quad rail rather than modular, where you can put rails only when and where you need them. I also don't like how spare parts are only available from FN if you can get them at all, and how no one knows whether this rifle is here to stay, or here today and gone tomorrow, with no source for parts.

I think I may try building a 7.62 AR on a Mega upper/lower and see if it is reliable enough for my purposes. If so, I may stick with that, just because I can have it set up just how I want it, using common parts, and for less money to boot. </div></div>

Why do you like a reciprocating charge handle?

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: Is The FNH SCAR 17 Worth It?



I just read on another forum about the US NAVY dropping any & all plans to use the SCAR 17/H.

Can anyone confirm this?