Specifically in the military. Trigger issues aside it seems like the bullpup platform is perfect for long range rifles and military guns. Bolt actions suffer from extremely long lengths especially when a can is put on which also means tons of weight on the end of the gun making non supported shots hard. The bolt actions simple construction means you don't need to worry about things like gas systems or recoil springs meaning you can really put the action assembly far back and cut off a good foot or more of overall length as well as bringing the center of balance closer to the rear of the gun. In a combat scenario there's less gun to conceal and maneuver, carrying it is easier, and there's less overall stock material so they could be lighter and cheaper to produce. As someone who loves intricites of firearm design it's just very odd to me how there's only one or two companies making them in the US. I must be missing something curious to hear the hides opinion on this matter.
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Is there a reason there's not many bullpups?
- Thread starter jmar
- Start date
It's nice to not have the action right under your cheek if it Kabooms.
Also bullpup triggers usually suck.
Also bullpup triggers usually suck.
Hi,
The biggest problem with bullpup bolt actions being "widely" accepted, especially the military world is the bolt manipulation via left handed shooters.
You have to come off the rifle to cycle the bolt which negates the "less gun to conceal" attribute.....
Sincerely,
Theis
The biggest problem with bullpup bolt actions being "widely" accepted, especially the military world is the bolt manipulation via left handed shooters.
You have to come off the rifle to cycle the bolt which negates the "less gun to conceal" attribute.....
Sincerely,
Theis
OMG..............................thankfully i got all my gun smarts way before the plethora of video games that have warped the minds of sedentary yoot that post here.
That's a good point, I can't think of any bullpup bolt action that is ambi, I know guns like the FAMAS and MDR are able to be swapped but no bolt gun. However that only seems to be an issue with the currently available ones. Theoretically it would be possible for a company to make one. I can't think of any reason they couldn't. Maybe in America at least the market is just not there. I know in other countries bullpup snipers have been a thing for decades.
So, do lefty shooters in the military shoot right-handed (conventional/non-bullpup) bolt rifles?
Here’s a great bullpup.
I have FN’s both. PS90 and FS2000.
The FS2000 is ambi and the spent brass exits up by the front sight and falls to my feet.
Trigger complaints are all but eliminated by a Man Knave hammer and safety sear. A bit of dry lubricant on the trigger bars as well. This one has a Silencerco ASR welded and pinned at 16”. Over all rifle length is 26 1/4.
I have FN’s both. PS90 and FS2000.
The FS2000 is ambi and the spent brass exits up by the front sight and falls to my feet.
Trigger complaints are all but eliminated by a Man Knave hammer and safety sear. A bit of dry lubricant on the trigger bars as well. This one has a Silencerco ASR welded and pinned at 16”. Over all rifle length is 26 1/4.
Attachments
I remember there being a left handed version of the MK13 in the manual for it. No clue on whether they made any, I guess they would have if any of the SEALs were left handed.
That’s why I qualified it with “regular” military. What the high speed low drag types may get their hands on is limitless.
Most of us learn pretty quick that if we want to shoot anything other than the megabuck special never to be sold left handed rifle we had to buy we will learn to shoot wrong handed. For some it makes life easier. I can shoot left or right and I do. I don't recall ever seeing a left handed sniper rifle in any military inventory so I guess all the snipers shoot right handed or they do some funky maneuvers to operate the action. Having said that I'd say that the idea that bullpups aren't in military use because us lefties can't use them isn't really right.
There are real reasons of course and one of the primary is probably the political nature of military hardware purchasing that seldom buys the best item for the job. Its been many years since the PSR madness and they still don't have a choice made that will stick for more than a week or two. They can't even choose a cartridge for sure.
Next is the reason many have dumped the Desert Tactical platform for PRS and other matches of that type. The mags suck and changing them is painful. The balance is different than a regular rifle so it requires training with the thing just to get back to even with it.
Guys think they look odd and feel funny. Real snipers wouldn't use a rifle like that.
I like my SRS and have been shooting it for years in many different calibers. I shoot it left and right handed and have no issues operating the bolt. It takes some work but once you get it down its as easy as a regular bolt rifle. I don't do quick mag changes and don't really care about it. I'm in no hurry and don't do any competitions. Others do and it can be an issue. I do really like setting my rifle with a 27" barrel and a suppressor next to someones TRG42 on a bench. With no can on the TRG its still longer than my SRS with the can.
Lastly, I think the Germans might be using the DSR bullpup rifle for some of their police and military snipers. Its not in wide use but I'm pretty sure it is being used.....only one I can think of that might be.
Frank
There are real reasons of course and one of the primary is probably the political nature of military hardware purchasing that seldom buys the best item for the job. Its been many years since the PSR madness and they still don't have a choice made that will stick for more than a week or two. They can't even choose a cartridge for sure.
Next is the reason many have dumped the Desert Tactical platform for PRS and other matches of that type. The mags suck and changing them is painful. The balance is different than a regular rifle so it requires training with the thing just to get back to even with it.
Guys think they look odd and feel funny. Real snipers wouldn't use a rifle like that.
I like my SRS and have been shooting it for years in many different calibers. I shoot it left and right handed and have no issues operating the bolt. It takes some work but once you get it down its as easy as a regular bolt rifle. I don't do quick mag changes and don't really care about it. I'm in no hurry and don't do any competitions. Others do and it can be an issue. I do really like setting my rifle with a 27" barrel and a suppressor next to someones TRG42 on a bench. With no can on the TRG its still longer than my SRS with the can.
Lastly, I think the Germans might be using the DSR bullpup rifle for some of their police and military snipers. Its not in wide use but I'm pretty sure it is being used.....only one I can think of that might be.
Frank
@Tyler Kemp at MK Machining has a sweet bullpup chassis about to hit the market. Comes with a special Timney trigger. I tagged him so he can share more details.
Thanks for the tag. I've been working on a Rem 700 bullpup platform for several years now. The trigger is fantastic, not for a bullpup but just a really good trigger. The linkage was surprisingly a non-issue...first prototype was how I wanted. The rest of the ergonomics were a bigger hurdle, but I think we have that nailed.
Takes right or left handed actions, normal adjustable features you'd want in a chassis, "new" stuff like MLOK and an Arca rail, etc.
I think the biggest problem with bullpups is folks haven't innovated the bolt gun in years. Q has done cool stuff with their "Fix" rifle, but damn if their jackass social media posts that pop up sometimes and abrasive marketing doesn't turn me and many other folks off. Down the road I've got some really cool bullpup/bolt action ideas lined up, it just takes money lol!
I remember when you first posted about that project, I looked at your pics of current offering and I gotta say I’m impressed.
Really looks nice and well thought out.
I don't own any yet, currently shopping around for a M99. My end goal is to start a firearms company so I'm just gathering some thoughts on various design elements. I've heard complaints about balance in some small bullpup semis but never about any long guns. One would assume the thick 24+" barrel on a long range bullpup would mitigate the complaint of the weight a being in the rear. Which ones did you handle that you did not like?
Thanks for the info in the Man Knave hammer and safety sear. This is a big what that has been holding me back on buying a FS2000, as I like everything else about it, especially the balance, at least to me.
I asked my buddy who was in the teams and he said they did have a very small number of left handed rifles but pretty much if you were a lefty you were taught to shoot right handed.
That's awesome! I'm not really a fan of the whole R700 barreled action being put into things purely because I think making proprietary actions will always be better suited, in your case it would allow for a forward mount bolt handle so you wouldn't need to use an extension. But you know that. Interested to see what other designs you come up with in the future. I can easily see your company becoming a household name.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment the reason I made this post 'and a lot of others in the hide' is because I'm aspiring to be a firearms designer. So it is cool to see others pursuing it too. My first post on the hide 2 years ago was actually getting feedback on one of my designs. Here's a link t it: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/seeking-feedback-on-rifle-design.6424576/ mind you that was my very first design and at the time I was a little bit uneducated on some aspects of firearms. So some of the things I said were a bit off. But since then I have designed hundreds more concepts and have done extensive research. One day I hope to make at least one. So I'm just curious how you learned your skills in design and machining. My plan was to learn how to design on computers then 3D print small scale replicas of them until they are functionally what I wanted. Then send my designs to a machine shop to have them do it for me since I cannot afford a quarter million in machinery. Do you have any general advice on how you got started?
So do they teach lefties to reach over the gun and cycle the bolt with their left hand, or do they teach them to use the right hand. Using the right hand, I've found, is actually pretty nice when shooting supported since you don't have to remove your trigger hand, but you can't do it unsupported, ie hunting. Which is why I buy left handed when I can.
Hi Jmar, missed your last request for info. As for how to get started....work, work, more work, try and be responsive to the community, be active in forums, etc. Sometimes you just gotta get lucky too. Still waiting on that last part haha 
Just got the first MK2 back from anodization. Real pleased with how the last few years of work have turned out!
Just got the first MK2 back from anodization. Real pleased with how the last few years of work have turned out!
Don't they have therapy facilities that teaches them to shoot right handed similar to that of teaching homo's not to be homos anymore?
Because Bullpup bolt actions suck.
I don’t enjoy having a round go off beside my ear. Thanks, but no.
I don’t enjoy having a round go off beside my ear. Thanks, but no.
Is there something special about your ear that the rest of us don't know? Would you rather have a rifle bolt driven through your head in a catastrophic failure of a traditional bolt rifle ?
You assume wrong. Modern hearing protection is very effective, suppressors are even better. All the noise and blast comes from the muzzle , not the action.
I notice 0 difference in sound between a bullpup and standard rifle. I've shot 223, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 SAUM, 308, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua, 338 Lapua AI, 375 Cheytac, 50 DTC, and 50 BMG...all are loud as shit unless suppressed or you have ear pro....
As for safety, I have no scientific data but a bomb going off under my face or a few inches in front of it makes me leery either way. So I try not to mix up Unique and H1000
As for safety, I have no scientific data but a bomb going off under my face or a few inches in front of it makes me leery either way. So I try not to mix up Unique and H1000
If the 338 rang your bell the real cartridges would probably kill you. In truth there are those who like the bullpups and those who don't and they're all entitled to their opinions. If you don't like them then its not a problem. Makes more for us. I've noticed the 33 XC has a lot more poop then the 338 Lapua when it comes to recoil but the noise level seems the same to me.....maybe it has something to do with me using my same suppressor on both.
So far as I've seen there is no real basis to the fear of bullpups being more likely than standard actions for blowing your face off. I've never seen an action shatter in all the years I've been shooting and only a couple barrels split in that 40+ years due to obstructions or other reasons. I find I worry more about my 50 caliber Boys anti-tank rifle with its standard non bullpup action than I do about the Desert Tactical. However as we all have our own fears and concerns I leave each to their own.
I have felt that my MDR is louder than the bolt action SRS but I'm sure its due to gas being dumped by the piston ports and the chamber when it uncorks the spent case. It is no louder than an AR however and in my opinion its not as loud. I always shoot suppressed (in the AR's too) unless its not legal so that may have something to do with it.
Frank
So far as I've seen there is no real basis to the fear of bullpups being more likely than standard actions for blowing your face off. I've never seen an action shatter in all the years I've been shooting and only a couple barrels split in that 40+ years due to obstructions or other reasons. I find I worry more about my 50 caliber Boys anti-tank rifle with its standard non bullpup action than I do about the Desert Tactical. However as we all have our own fears and concerns I leave each to their own.
I have felt that my MDR is louder than the bolt action SRS but I'm sure its due to gas being dumped by the piston ports and the chamber when it uncorks the spent case. It is no louder than an AR however and in my opinion its not as loud. I always shoot suppressed (in the AR's too) unless its not legal so that may have something to do with it.
Frank
I've got quite a few bullpups now, but find I like them less and less the more I shoot. I LOVE the weight balance when shooting off-hand, and obviously the shorter OAL, but ergonomics are always a challenge. I've got some of the fun ones (Kel-Tec RFB, AUGs, have had DT SRS, etc) and at the end of the day, there's issues with the magazine location even with a lot of use, for _me_. That's highly personal, just like stocks on traditional rifles. Sometimes, the weight balance is worth the trade-off in ergo, sometimes not. I'm still not sure which I prefer!
I wanted to reply not just to interject my opinion, but also to interject a little fact regarding the design. I don't worry about bullpups and action explosions (even if it were to happen, which is exceedingly unlikely; even pistol powder in a rifle case tends to break bolts, not explode actions), because many of the bullpup manufacturers have reinforced the area where your cheek/face is above the action with steel, to force the blast elsewhere. Some add steel plate, some just build super beefy receivers/etc.
I've seen bullpup failures of assorted types, and generally all that you see is magazine exploding outwards (baseplates/etc). I've not seen any squib loads in a bullpup, but I suspect it'd be no different than what you see in a traditional rifle - kiss the barrel goodbye, maybe some bolt damage, but otherwise ok. Taking the AUG for example, I'm not sure if there's been a single catastrophic failure of one since it entered military service. The worst I've ever heard of was an ejection port cover blowing off (gas escaping, again, path of least resistance).
I'm sure some exist that aren't as safe, but most of of the bullpups you think about are over-engineered from a safety perspective for exactly the concerns brought up - nobody, to include the manufacturers of these, wants anyone to be injured by a preventable failure. That would be a game-over moment for the company involved.
